What's the gun or cartridge you "never" will have

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by MK2750

It most certainly does. It is human nature to design a better mouse trap and after a hundred years the 06 cartridge is as relevant today as any modern design.

Muzzle loaders, bows and arrows, sticks and stones are irrelevant to the conversation.

So if a 165 gr bullet leaves the muzzle of a rifle chambered for the 3006 it will be more effective on game than an identical 165gr bullet leaving the muzzle of a newly developed wildcat cartridge at exactly the same velocity?
How many years a cartridge has been around, or how many animals it has killed, has zero effect on how effective that cartridge will be on game animals.

[Jeron Kahyar]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

So if a 165 gr bullet leaves the muzzle of a rifle chambered for the 3006 it will be more effective on game than an identical 165gr bullet leaving the muzzle of a newly developed wildcat cartridge at exactly the same velocity?

I don't think that was his point. Yes there is better now than the 30-06, and no in this senerio.

I think the point is that the 30-06 has proven itself with a reliable track record over many years/continents/hunting trips. It strikes an appropriate balance for the average shooter in terms of recoil to muzzle energy. It has a wide variety of bullet choice for the reloader or non reloader alike. Proven accurate in competition. Last but not least holds a nostalgic reputation with many.

So no it may not be better and it may not be even "as good" statistically as new rounds. But it is far from obsolete. In fact it may be one of the best all around cartridges (there must be a reason it is so popular around the world).

That being said it is not my first choice in a chambering. I have a penchant for metric cartrages (I really don't know why). I sure wouldn't turn down a deal because it was chamberd in 30-06 however.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Jeron Kahyar

I don't think that was his point. Yes there is better now than the 30-06, and no in this senerio.

I think the point is that the 30-06 has proven itself with a reliable track record over many years/continents/hunting trips. It strikes an appropriate balance for the average shooter in terms of recoil to muzzle energy. It has a wide variety of bullet choice for the reloader or non reloader alike. Proven accurate in competition. Last but not least holds a nostalgic reputation with many.

So no it may not be better and it may not be even "as good" statistically as new rounds. But it is far from obsolete. In fact it may be one of the best all around cartridges (there must be a reason it is so popular around the world).

That being said it is not my first choice in a chambering. I have a penchant for metric cartrages (I really don't know why). I sure wouldn't turn down a deal because it was chamberd in 30-06 however.

One very significant reason for the popularity of the 30'06, was the fact that it was the cartridge chosen by the US military, so there was a good supply of cheap surplus rifles and ammunition after the world wars. Had the USA chosen the 308win as their service cartridge, the 308win would likely be more popular than it is, and the 30'06 would be much less popular than it is. This is the same reason that the 303 British was so popular in Canada and other Commonwealth countries after the world wars.

[Jeron Kahyar]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

One very significant reason for the popularity of the 30'06, was the fact that it was the cartridge chosen by the US military, so there was a good supply of cheap surplus rifles and ammunition after the world wars. Had the USA chosen the 308win as their service cartridge, the 308win would likely be more popular than it is, and the 30'06 would be much less popular than it is. This is the same reason that the 303 British was so popular in Canada and other Commonwealth countries after the world wars.

Of the two here said to be popular from cheep surplus rilfes. Which has stood the test of time and is still just as popular today? Wich has lost popularity and never gained notarity outside of the Commonwealth contries?

Cheep surplus rifles did initially move the 30-06 into popularity. Being that it is one of the most popular rounds today, it's popularity can no longer be attributed to cheep surplus rifles (try buying a M1 Grand). It has proven itself as a quality round and earned the respect and admiration of many.

Again I'm not knocking any other round. In reality that Deer/Moose/Elk is never going to know the difference between a 338 Lapua, 30-06, or 260 REM. But to say the 30-06 is only popular from cheep surplus rifles and is no longer relevant is a little off base in my opinion.

[MK2750]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

One very significant reason for the popularity of the 30'06, was the fact that it was the cartridge chosen by the US military, so there was a good supply of cheap surplus rifles and ammunition after the world wars. Had the USA chosen the 308win as their service cartridge, the 308win would likely be more popular than it is, and the 30'06 would be much less popular than it is. This is the same reason that the 303 British was so popular in Canada and other Commonwealth countries after the world wars.

The 303 is not popular throughout the former British colonies and in fact is becoming obsolete in spite of it's historical significance. There are simply better cartridges to drive a 30 cal (+ or - cause I know you like to split hairs) faster and more efficiently, namely the 06 and its ugly little step child the 08.

All modern cartridges can trace their way back to the 7x57 and every development has been a simple reinvention of the wheel. The 280 and/or 7mm08 do nothing a 7x57 cant and the same can be said of any non magnum 30 cals compared to the 06 cartridge.

[catnthehat]

The only relevant thing is if an individual WANTS a particular cartridge not WHY!!
Cat

[Jeron Kahyar]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

The only relevant thing is if an individual WANTS a particular cartridge not WHY!!
Cat

Isn't that the truth. I hear stories of a guy on this form that likes the .303 and not the .270 Win. Must be an odd duck.

[mgvande]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

One very significant reason for the popularity of the 30'06, was the fact that it was the cartridge chosen by the US military, so there was a good supply of cheap surplus rifles and ammunition after the world wars. Had the USA chosen the 308win as their service cartridge, the 308win would likely be more popular than it is, and the 30'06 would be much less popular than it is. This is the same reason that the 303 British was so popular in Canada and other Commonwealth countries after the world wars.

The 308 was chosen as a military cartridge.

[Dean2]

Originally Posted by mgvande

The 308 was chosen as a military cartridge.

True, but show me the pile of cheap surplus guns that went with that. I am a big 308 fan but being able to buy inexpensive mil-surps sure made shooing all the old European rounds plus the 303 a whole bunch of cheap shooting entertainment. It is the only reason the SKS is nearly as popular as it is. Cheap guns and lots of cheap ammo. Great combination for just having a bunch of fun.

Takes a great cartridge like the 7x57, 45-70 and 30-06 to last over a 100 years and long past their military service life, and well past the availability of cheap surplus weapons and cheap surplus ammo. Clearly the cartridge is excellent for civilian use as well.

[Nyksta]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

One very significant reason for the popularity of the 30'06, was the fact that it was the cartridge chosen by the US military, so there was a good supply of cheap surplus rifles and ammunition after the world wars. Had the USA chosen the 308win as their service cartridge, the 308win would likely be more popular than it is, and the 30'06 would be much less popular than it is. This is the same reason that the 303 British was so popular in Canada and other Commonwealth countries after the world wars.

To use your own words sir....

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

[TLSpeed]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

One very significant reason for the popularity of the 30'06, was the fact that it was the cartridge chosen by the US military, so there was a good supply of cheap surplus rifles and ammunition after the world wars. Had the USA chosen the 308win as their service cartridge, the 308win would likely be more popular than it is, and the 30'06 would be much less popular than it is. This is the same reason that the 303 British was so popular in Canada and other Commonwealth countries after the world wars.

[bb356]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

One very significant reason for the popularity of the 30'06, was the fact that it was the cartridge chosen by the US military, so there was a good supply of cheap surplus rifles and ammunition after the world wars. Had the USA chosen the 308win as their service cartridge, the 308win would likely be more popular than it is, and the 30'06 would be much less popular than it is. This is the same reason that the 303 British was so popular in Canada and other Commonwealth countries after the world wars.

Wow elk ... usually you make a well thought out rebuttle to question's ... but this is

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by bb356

Wow elk ... usually you make a well thought out rebuttle to question's ... but this is

My post is very true. You start out with a good supply of cheap surplus rifles and ammunition, and many people will adopt the cartridge. And because the cartridge is now popular, the firearms manufactuers start making a variety of hunting rifles in that chambering, and it becomes even more popular. In most cases the people that purchase a 3006 chose the cartridge, for no other reason than it is popular, without even comparing ballistics. The 303 British didn´t last, because the Canadian market is so small that the American firearms companies didn´t start offering hunting rifles in this chambering.

[mgvande]

I haven't seen to much 45-70 surplus around but I tend to agree with elk about the cheap ammo to a point. The 308 and 3006 are good chamberings that is why they are popular. They are good chamberings also due to a lot of development by the military. Now I only have one 'cheap' surplus rifle in 3006 and that is a garand. The era of surplus rifles in Canada is coming to an end due to our crappy gun laws. Not to many surplus rifle to be put into civilian hands now due to everything being full auto or restricted class going forward. Sad really

[Jeron Kahyar]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

My post is very true. You start out with a good supply of cheap surplus rifles and ammunition, and many people will adopt the cartridge. And because the cartridge is now popular, the firearms manufactuers start making a variety of hunting rifles in that chambering, and it becomes even more popular. In most cases the people that purchase a 3006 chose the cartridge, for no other reason than it is popular, without even comparing ballistics. The 303 British didn´t last, because the Canadian market is so small that the American firearms companies didn´t start offering hunting rifles in this chambering.

I can see your logic here but not sure it holds up. By this logic the 8mm label, 7.62x39mm, 7.62x54R, 6.5x55mm, 8mm Mauser, 303 british, and 7.5x55mm Swiss should all be very popular. With exception of the 6.5x55mm none have been widely adopted by any sporting rifle manufacturers.

I also don't subscribe to the better ballistic automatically make it the better choice. The 300 Rum in theory is far superior to the 30-06. I however would turn down a rifle if it was chambered in 300 RUM. I just have no interest in shooting something with heavy recoil. To each thier own however, if the recoil is a non issue get the Rum.

[Xbolt7mm]

Originally Posted by Jeron Kahyar

I can see your logic here but not sure it holds up. By this logic the 8mm label, 7.62x39mm, 7.62x54R, 6.5x55mm, 8mm Mauser, 303 british, and 7.5x55mm Swiss should all be very popular. With exception of the 6.5x55mm none have been widely adopted by any sporting rifle manufacturers.

I also don't subscribe to the better ballistic automatically make it the better choice. The 300 Rum in theory is far superior to the 30-06. I however would turn down a rifle if it was chambered in 300 RUM. I just have no interest in shooting something with heavy recoil. To each thier own however, if the recoil is a non issue get the Rum.

I think elk is correct on his statement and views on this but it doesnt matter because we are not here to debate it just state what we wouldn't own, be nice if it got back on track, maybe start another thread on it, it would be interesting

[mgvande]

This

[Xbolt7mm]

Originally Posted by mgvande

This

Lol yup

[JohninAB]

Will never own a 30/06 nor a Remington firearm.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Jeron Kahyar

I can see your logic here but not sure it holds up. By this logic the 8mm label, 7.62x39mm, 7.62x54R, 6.5x55mm, 8mm Mauser, 303 british, and 7.5x55mm Swiss should all be very popular. With exception of the 6.5x55mm none have been widely adopted by any sporting rifle manufacturers.

I also don't subscribe to the better ballistic automatically make it the better choice. The 300 Rum in theory is far superior to the 30-06. I however would turn down a rifle if it was chambered in 300 RUM. I just have no interest in shooting something with heavy recoil. To each thier own however, if the recoil is a non issue get the Rum.

If it isn´t due to cheap surplus SKS rifles, and cheap military ammunition, why do you suppose that the 7.62x39 is so `popular these days? It isn´t popular for big game hunting, but I see SKS rifles shooting the 7.62x39 cartridge pretty much every time I gop to the range. And by the way, the SKS and 7.62x39 are another rifle and cartridge that I have no interest in owning. As to the other cartridges that you mention, unlike the 30'06, they were not US service cartridges, so there was not a huge amount of surplus rifles and ammunition available in the US, so they were never common there.

[Norwest Alta]

Anything in .270

[eric2381]

223,243, and 25 wssm. I'll never own one of those three

[t.tinsmith]

My 2nd post on this thread and I am going to add any chambering designed after 1958. And for the record the .33 British is a fine round but war surplus rifles gave it a checkered history imo and I see no need for any Weatherby round or mark v rifle.Hunting is a simple pleasure and our gear needs to be simply reliable- not flashy.

[bb356]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

My post is very true. You start out with a good supply of cheap surplus rifles and ammunition, and many people will adopt the cartridge. And because the cartridge is now popular, the firearms manufactuers start making a variety of hunting rifles in that chambering, and it becomes even more popular. In most cases the people that purchase a 3006 chose the cartridge, for no other reason than it is popular, without even comparing ballistics. The 303 British didn´t last, because the Canadian market is so small that the American firearms companies didn´t start offering hunting rifles in this chambering.

Sorry elk ... didn't mean to get into a spittin match ...

[Opa]

Anything but a Weatherby. Way overpriced, actions sloppier than a hooker, way overpriced ammo(even if you reload), and heavier than dragging a 15 lb. ankle bracelet!!! Give me a European piece any day, traditional quality, smooth as a baby's rear actions, and a far broader selection of ammunition.

[MDowdall]

A Tikka because they have become so hugely over priced. when they were 500 bucks i would have but not not at those prices id buy a winchester or kimber or any number of guns that actually in my opinion deserve the higher ask

[ruger338]

X2 on whoever it was who dislikes the 3030 such a useless caliber labelled Gangareen gun for a damn good reason IMHO, X2 on Remington anything also IMHO.

[ParkGunner]

I have zero interest in the 6.5 Creed. I know guys that shoot it, and their brass life is atrocious. Realistically speaking, for 90% of the people out there, the extra ballistics the 6.5 offers over the 30c, they're not worth it.

That, and the 270 Win. Had one, and the caliber never won me over.

I'll stick with my tried and true 30-06.