Remington mod 700 not grouping too good any more

[bossmann]

I've become a little frustrated lately. My rem 270. stainless with synthetic stalk isn't grouping like it once was. There was a day when hitting a 4" target at 400 yards was quite doable. Now I'm not so sure at 100 anymore. The rifle is 15 years old and has over 1000 rounds through it. It's been cleaned fairly regularly but maybe not enough. The scope is tight although it came loose the year I put it on that is no longer an issue.

I'm not a very knowledgable gun owner although it's the most important tool I own.

What should I do to get this gun back on track or is it even possible?
I have no problem taking it to a gun smith but I trust no one and would like some recommendations.

I'm hoping it's not time for a new gun.
Sorry if "important information" is missing
I will do my best to answer questions

Thank you in advance

[rottie]

Try cleaning it with Wipe Out. Its a foam cleaner. Spray it in let it sit for a few hours then, brush it out,repeat as long as your jag cloth is coming out blue. You may have copper fowling.
Are you usng the same ammo

[twofifty]

The accuracy loss might well be due to a copper build-up in the bore, particularly if you've always cleaned the rifle with regular powder solvents. The regular stuff does nothing to break down the copper residue.

If that's the case, suggest you try one of the specialist copper removers like
CR-10, or Sweets 7.62. There are others too. Follow the instructions as some of these are very aggressive.

edit: Wipe-Out mentioned above is a great copper remover.

[bossmann]

Thanks for the quick reply guys
Yes i've use the same ammunition for years

I've never used any of these products you speak of so I'm going to head down to the shop right now and see if I can't find some

Just another question
Is 1000 rounds a lot of ammunition to put through Rifle like this?
What's the life expectancy of a barrel like this how many rounds before i should start seeing some change in grouping?

Thanks again for the advice I'll keep you up-to-date on my results

[Dean2]

In addition to the previous advice, remove the gun from the stock, check the stock carefully for cracks that could be allowing the action to move around. Ensure bedding is in good shape, and action screws are tight after being re-installed.

The barrel won't be worn out after only 1000 rounds. The cleaning will likely make a big difference and getting the action bedded and the barrel free floated would also likely help a bunch. The Remington stocks are set up with a pressure point near the end of the stock and over the years these pressure points often get so they push at an angle or apply too much pressure, which messes up the groups. This and the cracking more commonly affect wood stocks but I have seen it on synthetic ones too.

[kingrat]

no 1000 shouldnt even be close to shot out either bad copper fouling or scope-mount issue I would guess the latter how bad of groups we talking or are they groups at all whats going on

[sikwhiskey]

Get some wipeout and accelerator, keep applying it until you see no more blue color on your patches, it might take 3-5 applications. Accelerator will help get the job done a little faster.

[pchunter]

Nothing new to add beside be patient, let the wipe out sit in the barrel. It might take a week. I fixed a 30-06 from a friend with the exact same issue. He ended buying new scope, bracket, tried to free float the barrel, nothing help. It took a week of running wipeout twice a day (before and after work) and now rifle shoot 1MOA. He could have saved hundreds of dollar in ammo and parts if he would of started with a good clean. Your rifle may or maynot need a box of ammo through it after cleaning , before it start grouping OK again. Some rifle need a bit of fouling to shoot their best.

And check all the free easy fix mention above like thightning action screws and checking scope mount ounce more (don't strip base screws, They don't need to be that tight). I bet your rifle will be ready for many more years of hunting after that.

[bossmann]

At one time I could put 4 rounds under a nickle at 100 yards now I bet it's 6" or maybe more

Also I see that the front part of my stock touches the barrel
That's the next question I will ask
Floating the barrel... Is this somthing I can do myself or should I take it to someone

[1899b]

Originally Posted by bossmann

At one time I could put 4 rounds under a nickle at 100 yards now I bet it's 6" or maybe more

Also I see that the front part of my stock touches the barrel
That's the next question I will ask
Floating the barrel... Is this somthing I can do myself or should I take it to someone

Not all barrels do well floated. I have some that needed floating and some shoot awesome with a pressure point.
But that grouping has sure gone south on you. Something is definitely not right...

[missingtwo]

I would try a different scope. You may have a floating reticle. Also, check the crown.

[Lefty-Canuck]

KISS

Keep it simple, clean it and test....

Doing 14 things all at once will only serve to further frustrate and you will have no idea what the fix is.

LC

[tchardy1972]

Also make sure the bedding is kept clean and dry. A little oil in the bedding can wreak havoc. Most likely a fouling issue though.

[Cappy]

What Lefty said. Unless you drove the rifle hard and got it super hot it should not be shot out. I have rifles with over 7000 rounds down them and they shoot just fine.

Clean it with a good copper cleaner and then try again.

[elkhunter11]

6" groups at 100 yards is a major drop in accuracy. I would remove the barreled action, and clean the action and bedding surfaces, and properly clean the barrel with a one piece rod, bore guide , cotton patches.and a good copper solvent.If that doesn't restore the accuracy, I would inspect the muzzle for damage, and then retighten the scope mounts. If that still doesn't do it, try another scope.

[Groundhogger]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

KISS

Keep it simple, clean it and test....

Doing 14 things all at once will only serve to further frustrate and you will have no idea what the fix is.

LC

^Agreed. Good time to check the action screws too~that should just take a second.

Failing those issues, I'd wonder about the scope. Scopes can come loose from their bases, the bases themselves can come loose from the gun's receiver. I'd probably remove the scope, confirm the bases are tight and there are no stripped screws holding them down. Reinstall the scope and test. If it's still shooting wonky, I'd try a different scope. I have a hunch a clean barrel will remedy your problem and if not, it's likely one of the scope issues in my opinion.

[gtr]

Originally Posted by bossmann

I've become a little frustrated lately. My rem 270. stainless with synthetic stalk isn't grouping like it once was. There was a day when hitting a 4" target at 400 yards was quite doable. Now I'm not so sure at 100 anymore. The rifle is 15 years old and has over 1000 rounds through it. It's been cleaned fairly regularly but maybe not enough. The scope is tight although it came loose the year I put it on that is no longer an issue.

I'm not a very knowledgable gun owner although it's the most important tool I own.

What should I do to get this gun back on track or is it even possible?
I have no problem taking it to a gun smith but I trust no one and would like some recommendations.

I'm hoping it's not time for a new gun.
Sorry if "important information" is missing
I will do my best to answer questions

Thank you in advance

How many years,could be more important than any other issue. Try a Browning,and carry on.

[twofifty]

No matter what else might or might not need doing, it remains a fact that with 1,000 rounds through it without a single de-coppering, you will have a serious copper fouling build up. This will take many many applications of copper-specific solvent to remove.

The Wipe Out suggested by Rottie would probably be the best solvent option as it can be kept in the bore overnight without the danger of etching the metal. pchunter said it will likely take one week of repeated applications and I'd say he's right.

CR-10: Works well but there is a 15 minute limit that it can stay in the bore...beyond that there might be metal damage.

Sweets 7.62: I don't know what the time limitations are.

Whatever solvent you use, make sure not to use a copper or brass brush. The solvents will attack the brush metal as readily as it will attack the metal fouling, and your patches will always come out blue. You won't know if you're making progress.

Best to let the magic potions do their job, using properly sized patches for the scrubbing. Nylon brushes (RCBS makes them) are a good option if you want some mechanical action.

edit: a bore guide that fits the action and a quality single piece cleaning rod would protect the gun, make the job easier, and be a good investment. Dewey is a good brand readily available in Canada. There are other quality rods out there.

[Dick284]

Copper
Optics/mounts
Bedding
Crown
Gunsmith

In that order.

[Pokee]

Originally Posted by gtr

How many years,could be more important than any other issue. Try a Browning,and carry on.

More great "Wizz-Dumb"

[Dick284]

Originally Posted by gtr

How many years,could be more important than any other issue. Try a Browning,and carry on.

Pfffft Browning......
Why not a Kimber?

[elkhunter11]

More great "Wizz-Dumb"

Get used to it, you can expect to see a lot more of the same.

[expmler]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

KISS

Keep it simple, clean it and test....

Doing 14 things all at once will only serve to further frustrate and you will have no idea what the fix is.

LC

I agree, check to see that the action screws are tight. If you have to tighten them take it out and shoot it before you do anything else. if they are tight or there is no improvement after tightening, cleaning would be my next step.

Clean it and test before you change anything else. If it does not improve after cleaning my next step would be the scope.

Next thing I would check is the scope, if everything is tight try a different scope or try that scope on a different rifle that you know is accurate.

I would be careful about eliminating the pressure point in the stock, I am guessing it came like that from factory and has been accurate up until now. Once you remove that pressure point there is no going back.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by expmler

I agree, check to see that the action screws are tight. If you have to tighten them take it out and shoot it before you do anything else. if they are tight or there is no improvement after tightening, cleaning would be my next step.

Clean it and test before you change anything else. If it does not improve after cleaning my next step would be the scope.

Next thing I would check is the scope, if everything is tight try a different scope or try that scope on a different rifle that you know is accurate.

I would be careful about eliminating the pressure point in the stock, I am guessing it came like that from factory and has been accurate up until now. Once you remove that pressure point there is no going back.

Actually, pressure pads can be rebuilt. I don't like pressure pads, but I have built them using bedding compound.

[260 Rem]

Troubleshooting the issue should start with a recognition of how rapid the onset of accuracy deterioration occurred. Gradual deterioration implies copper fouling, or perhaps stock warpage affecting the barrel channel or action. More rapid deterioration implies a hardware issue like loose action/scope screws, or even scope failure (of which the latter can be ruled out by switching out the scope).
You mentioned that "at one time you could put 4 shots under a nickel" so think back to that time as your baseline to establish your start point for troubleshooting. Two other possibilities come to mind. First, a change in ammo / reloading. And second, your own hold ability .... sometimes, we just ain't what we used to be

[ccardinal]

How many shots down the barrel does it take to recommend using a copper remover like Wipeout? I clean my bore with Remington bore cleaner. My rifle is fairly new. (Maybe 120 rounds down range). I noticed alot of members are referring to using Wipeout.

[1899b]

Originally Posted by ccardinal

How many shots down the barrel does it take to recommend using a copper remover like Wipeout? I clean my bore with Remington bore cleaner. My rifle is fairly new. (Maybe 120 rounds down range). I noticed alot of members are referring to using Wipeout.

I would think this would be dependant on the type or brand of ammo....

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by ccardinal

How many shots down the barrel does it take to recommend using a copper remover like Wipeout? I clean my bore with Remington bore cleaner. My rifle is fairly new. (Maybe 120 rounds down range). I noticed alot of members are referring to using Wipeout.

That depends on the rifle, and on the load used. None of my centerfires would go 120 rounds without having the copper removed.

[tchardy1972]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

That depends on the rifle, and on the load used. None of my centerfires would go 120 rounds without having the copper removed.

That's not alot. Some of my better barrels have very little copper in them after 2-300 rounds but then there are the others that only go 60-80 and are badly fouled up.

I'm lazy when it comes to cleaning barrels, therefor only do it when the need it or before prolonged storage.

[bossmann]

so used the copper fouling solution rerecorded above and followed the procedure. it took 3 or four rounds before the patches were not coming out white instead of blue.... so i m sure its done something and of course i cleaned the rifle top to bottom

i did get out to shoot and i fired a round through the pipe. someone recommended it to me once after a good cleaning who knows if its a good idea but that's what i did. then on a good rest at 120 yards the first shot was 1.5 inches high on center. good right? i thought so that's were the gun is supposed to be sighted in for.... i waited 2-3 min and shot 2 more times consecutively.
one shot was low 6" and right 2" the other was not as bad but high again.

I am fairly confident on my shooting and rest situation i expected way better results. i am fairly sure i have a problem still

now here is the question
it was 27c out and i want to know how the heat will effect the grouping? is 2-3 min of cooling time between shots sufficient cooling time or am i worried about nothing? the barrel was a little hot

i guess its time to mount a new scope on the gun its a sad day. its been a good run for the scope i guess. i got it when i was a kid. maybe 20+ years ago.

i should still hit an actual range and get a perfect rest just to be sure.