Hydrogen Peroxide for bleaching euro mount

[Jtenkink]

I'm doing a DIY deer euro mount and I'm having a hard time finding hydrogen peroxide to bleach the skull. I'm looking for the 40%volume cream hydrogen peroxide sold for bleaching hair not the liquid stuff for cleaning cuts. I'm yet to find it in any stores around here. Anybody know where to find this stuff? All the DIY instructions I've read say it's supposed to be super common and cheap but maybe that's just in the states.

[CNP]

Hairdressing supply or visit a hairdresser.

[UngulateMeatEater]

Sally’s beauty supply’s


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[double gun]

Originally Posted by Jtenkink

I'm doing a DIY deer euro mount and I'm having a hard time finding hydrogen peroxide to bleach the skull. I'm looking for the 40%volume cream hydrogen peroxide sold for bleaching hair not the liquid stuff for cleaning cuts. I'm yet to find it in any stores around here. Anybody know where to find this stuff? All the DIY instructions I've read say it's supposed to be super common and cheap but maybe that's just in the states.

40 volume is not 40%
40 volume is about 12%

It will work fine, but I much prefer to submerge the entire skull to kill any hard to clean areas like the small passageways or tooth seats.

[Jtenkink]

how long do you let it sit in the peroxide for?

[ramonmark]

I've done numerous mounts myself. I just get the regular hydrogen peroxide at the dollars store. And Minwax wood stain "provincial 211" and a Q-tip to fix any accidental whitening of the antlers. I've found that the Provincial 211 is the PERFECT colour for all big game antlers. Just dab the Q-tip into the stain and lightly dab it onto the antler, keep adding as you see fit to match the darkness of the area you are working with. When you soak the head I leave if for 2-3 days. I will have already had the head boiled in water and Oxy-clean so it's relatively white already though. When its soaking I try to keep the peroxide about 1 cm from the base of the antlers. I then lay paper towel over the rest of the skull and around the base of the antlers. that way the paper towel leaches up the peroxide and it still gets on the tricky parts around the base of the antlers without whitening them.

[Sooner]

I used dollar store peroxide too. Worked fine. Nice and white. Just filled the skull with cotton balls and then wrapped it in lots of paper towel. If memory serves me right, I checked it daily and the soak went 4 or 5 days.



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[Grizzly Adams]

Originally Posted by CNP

Hairdressing supply or visit a hairdresser.

Wife's hair dresser was very helpful. Bulk cleaning suppliers as well.

Grizz

[UngulateMeatEater]

Originally Posted by Sooner

I used dollar store peroxide too. Worked fine. Nice and white. Just filled the skull with cotton balls and then wrapped it in lots of paper towel. If memory serves me right, I checked it daily and the soak went 4 or 5 days.







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That’s one twisted up rack right there


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[270person]

Originally Posted by Jtenkink

how long do you let it sit in the peroxide for?

28% HP. 5 minutes is long enough
Little brown bottles in drug snd grocery stores is 3%. You want stronger.

[double gun]

Originally Posted by Jtenkink

how long do you let it sit in the peroxide for?

I heat my peroxide to a very light roll and I submerge the skull for about 10-15min. Take it out, wash it with water and let it dry.

In the old days I screwed around with weak peroxide, 40 volume cream and basic white but this is my new go-to. I get more dependable results and in a fraction of the time.

However I will say it again, that weak stuff will work it just takes longer. It's also safer. Most guys develop a method they are comfortable with and stick with it.

[colvert]

Boiling skull in ordinary bleach works very well for me.

[Grizzly Adams]

Originally Posted by colvert

Boiling skull in ordinary bleach works very well for me.

Bleach is very hard on bone, in my experience.

Grizz

[walking buffalo]

Have we all forgotten about molecular Moles and how chemistry works?


3% works just fine. Use enough and give it enough time.

Too much peroxide in the equation is just a waste.

And definitely No to bleach.
Boiling bleach. Lol.....

[SnipeHunter]

You could buy a 55 gallon drum from the plant in Gibbons.

[270person]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Have we all forgotten about molecular Moles and how chemistry works?


3% works just fine. Use enough and give it enough time.

Too much peroxide in the equation is just a waste.

And definitely No to bleach.
Boiling bleach. Lol.....

Stronger peroxide = less time. With the 28% (high as you can buy without having to do government paperwork) it's white very quickly. Also a lot cheaper buying the concentrates.

Chuckling about the boiling bleach and h2o2. Bleach not good to use first off and zero need to heat up hp. Doesnt help it work any quicker + boiling is not a good way to do a euro.

[double gun]

hydrogen peroxide is heat activated. And I never said boil it, I said bring it to a light roll and cut the heat let it soak for 10-15min.

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/843...cfc12cced9.pdf

[double gun]

Jtenkink, google “whitebone creations” - he has a bunch of YouTube videos that outline a good process. Taxidermy.net is also a wealth of knowledge, with many tutorials of the subject.

[270person]

Originally Posted by double gun

hydrogen peroxide is heat activated. And I never said boil it, I said bring it to a light roll and cut the heat let it soak for 10-15min.

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/843...cfc12cced9.pdf

Hydrogen peroxide isn't heat activated as you say. It "may" be enhanced. The study posted, which has also been disputed in other tests, tested the effects of heating it to whiten teeth with tobacco and red wine stains and concluded it was enhanced. It's actually not a real good idea to heat hydrogen peroxide. It can be a safety hazard. Its heat sensitive which speeds up decomposition to water and oxygen and without good ventilation oxygen is not your friend.

Boiling skulls or soaking in hot water is not recommended as it can cause yellowing due to grease and oils being set into the bone.

As I mentioned, a brief soak in a high concentrate version of h2o2 gets the job done. Skulls should be degreased and are usually deodorized as part of the process as well.

Beetle - best method of removing flesh. Doesn't blow out the fine bones in the nasal cavity and other areas

Degrease - most taxidermists use borax, sodium hydroxide, or soda ash with Dawn liquid dish soap but there are better, less caustic ways to accomplish the same thing. Dawn is a very mild degreaser/detergent and its main role is to reduce odor.

Deodorize - sometimes accomplished in step 2 but I like a quaternary disinfectant soak

Whiten - via soak in higher concentrate h2o2. The more concentrated the quicker the process. Anything North of 20% is good. It doesn't take long.

[double gun]

I’m just telling the op what we we taught - that heating the peroxide helps do a better, faster job. Hundreds of taxidermists wouldn’t bother if it didn’t work. And yes always do it outdoors with perfect ventilation - I figured that would be a given with all chemicals. Since he was asking about whitening, I thought it was safe to assume that the flesh was already removed. However:

As for methods of flesh removal, beetles aren’t practical for most people as they are a pain to take care of. They stink, need a climate controlled home, need to be fed throughout the year and can be tricky to contain so most guys have a separate building just for them.

Maceration is great if you have the time and space but again up here most deer are killed in November so that means doing it indoors and most won’t tolerate the smell inside a building.

So like it or not simmering is the most popular method by far. No you don’t hard boil it, nobody said you should. But simmering in water, with a squirt of soap in the brain cavity - mixed with power washing works and does squat for damage to the bone including the delicate nasal bones. Some added washing soda but I never liked to.

I do agree that one of the most important steps is a proper degreasing, and for that I was taught to use everything from acetone to a mild soapy solution being circulated by a air pump. And this process can take from days to months depending on the species and particular specimen.

Lastly we were taught the best, fastest method to whiten was as I suggested earlier - submerge the skull in hydrogen peroxide, bring to a light roll, kill the heat and let it sit 10-15min. Some guys use peroxide cream, some a mixture of peroxide cream and basic white, but most of those guys wrapped it in plastic wrap and - again put it in front of a heater. Just like the beauty salons have old ladies sit under the heaters when bleaching their hair.

Bleach as suggested will damage the bone, and not just while it’s in the chemical, it can continue to breakdown the bone after the soak and as such is NOT recommended.

Some seal the skulls afterwards with paraloid B-72 but I personally don’t like the look.


Again, I’m not looking to argue. I honestly don’t give a rats azz if you agree or not. I was helping the op with techniques that I learned and give good results with consistency.

[270person]

So at least we agree on how much we value the others opinion.

I guess I just wasn't aware that most taxidermists were chemists or had a thorough knowledge of chemistry. That's probably why a number of them are using Dawn dish soap as a degreaser/ deodorizer and caustics when there are more effective, less time consuming, and friendlier ways to accomplish the same or better results. I don't suppose cost or not having tried any method but what was passed down from previous eras would have much to do with it.

I certainly wasn't advocating that the average Joe should become a beetle rancher. Seems easier to just drop skulls off with one and pick it up in a week.

There are a number of falsehoods in your last post but since you're convinced you know what's best...carry on. We'll just agree to disagree.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by 270person

Stronger peroxide = less time. With the 28% (high as you can buy without having to do government paperwork) it's white very quickly. Also a lot cheaper buying the concentrates.

Chuckling about the boiling bleach and h2o2. Bleach not good to use first off and zero need to heat up hp. Doesnt help it work any quicker + boiling is not a good way to do a euro.

You Mad Bro?

The OP is having a hard time finding higher % H2O2.

Now he knows that the 3% solution works just fine.

The 3% bottles are getting ridiculously expensive.
I get 35% solution from AAA Taxidermy in Calgary.
But when I use it, it is diluted in the "simmering" pot.

How much time is "Saved" using 28% vs 3%?
Takes me two minutes to put the solution and skull in a pot,
then off to do something else for a few hours.
I don't stare at the pot till it is done. It doesn't matter if the process takes half an hour or 3.


Arrhenius will argue with your claim that heat may effect most chemical reactions, including H2O2. Heat Absolutely effects chemical reactions.
Keeping things warm creates a Much faster reaction time than if the chemicals are cold.


So we agree. Boiling bleach is a downright dangerous thing to do.

"Boiling" and anything to do with skull cleaning is wrong.
Don't boil at any time. Just simmer.

[270person]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

You Mad Bro?

The OP is having a hard time finding higher % H2O2.

Now he knows that the 3% solution works just fine.

The 3% bottles are getting ridiculously expensive.
I get 35% solution from AAA Taxidermy in Calgary.
But when I use it, it is diluted in the "simmering" pot.

How much time is "Saved" using 28% vs 3%?
Takes me two minutes to put the solution and skull in a pot,
then off to do something else for a few hours.
I don't stare at the pot till it is done. It doesn't matter if the process takes half an hour or 3.


Arrhenius will argue with your claim that heat may effect most chemical reactions, including H2O2. Heat Absolutely effects chemical reactions.
Keeping things warm creates a Much faster reaction time than if the chemicals are cold.


So we agree. Boiling bleach is a downright dangerous thing to do.

"Boiling" and anything to do with skull cleaning is wrong.
Don't boil at any time. Just simmer.

I never said heat was bad or didn't effect chemical reactions. I said it was either a bad idea in the case of h2o2 or unnecessary in the case of h202.

There are lots of chemicals that "shouldn't" be heated, some that fall apart when heated, and some that it doesnt matter one way or another. Degreasers as a group generally shouldnt be heated beyond a certain point or the formulation will fall apart. By the same token there are some designed to be heated for circulation and steam injection cleaning of vessels, towers, tanks, etc.

Some, like the chloride acids shouldn't be aerated. That can cause all kinds of fun.

I was just trying to save this gentleman some time and potentially some hazards but he's set on the method he knows best. All good. Different strokes

I like 15 - 28% because waiting for anything stinks. 28 is easy to get and if you want to work with a lesser strength just dilute it. Any time you need some...

[270person]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

The OP is having a hard time finding higher % H2O2.

Now he knows that the 3% solution works just fine.

The 3% bottles are getting ridiculously expensive.
I get 35% solution from AAA Taxidermy in Calgary.
But when I use it, it is diluted in the "simmering" pot.

How much time is "Saved" using 28% vs 3%?
Takes me two minutes to put the solution and skull in a pot,
then off to do something else for a few hours.
I don't stare at the pot till it is done. It doesn't matter if the process takes half an hour or 3.


"Boiling" and anything to do with skull cleaning is wrong.
Don't boil at any time. Just simmer.

Realized I didn't answer your question.

28% will do the job in between 30 seconds and 3 minutes. Can leave it as long as you like but it's basically done it's thing in short order. Can't get whiter than white. You are likely providing ID for the 35% food grade. It's the law whether you do or don't and I don't care either way. At 28% the ID and paperwork requirement goes away so less hassle.

And simmer isn't required. Not necessary and can cause issues. Room temp or even cooler works just fine.

I'd use 3% but I don't want a long grey beard to grow while it does its thing. Peroxide is cheap. Hit it.

[mulecrazy]

Originally Posted by colvert

Boiling skull in ordinary bleach works very well for me.

good god almighty

[Grizzly303]

Never heard of boiling bleach but I just put 15% bleach and 85% water and let skull sit for about 6 hours, gives it a really nice creamy colour instead of the pure white which is a little much. Doesn't do any damage to the skull. Always worked really well

[mulecrazy]

Originally Posted by Grizzly303

Never heard of boiling bleach but I just put 15% bleach and 85% water and let skull sit for about 6 hours, gives it a really nice creamy colour instead of the pure white which is a little much. Doesn't do any damage to the skull. Always worked really well

it also has the added benefit of degrading the bone for you as well. There is a huge reason why you will never see a taxidermist using bleach on a euro. You can easily destroy the skull.

[270person]

Originally Posted by mulecrazy

it also has the added benefit of degrading the bone for you as well. There is a huge reason why you will never see a taxidermist using bleach on a euro. You can easily destroy the skull.

Chlorine bleach and a pressure washer. Two really bad ideas.

[Vacation]

Dollar store peroxide, wet paper towels, place peroxide soaked P towels on skull and in sockets etc. Wrap with Saran wrap and tape it up tight. Place in bag. Leave for several days. Unwrap and Booyah, white!

[Grizzly303]

Yea, I'm sure its not by the book but I'm sure any longer than 6 hrs or more than 15% would destroy it