Big sheep changes

[Acesneights]

Originally Posted by pdfish

What I was told by F&W was that they were looking at making every sheep zone a draw hunt and eliminating the 4/5 or full curl and making ANY ram legal. They were looking at this for three reasons; first, to cut down on the massive litigation costs pursuing charges against people who shoot short sheep. Most of these charges end up being thrown out in court anyway. Second, to reduce the # of rams shot and left after they are found out to be just short when the hunter gets to them. Third, to control the # of hunters in any given zone to make it a better experience and quality hunt. (I don't necessarily buy that argument). Again, just what I've been told first hand, don't shoot the messenger.

This idea is complete ludicrous. If esrd thinks hunters are affecting the genetics now. Take a guess at how many non sheep hunters would be putting in a sheep draw and going out and shooting a banana ram. Let's fast forward five years down the road...... All you would see in the mountains is banana Rams

I have no doubt that givin time and our govt they will wreck this amazing resource of ours, one way or another.

[bdub]

Originally Posted by Acesneights

This idea is complete ludicrous. If esrd thinks hunters are affecting the genetics now. Take a guess at how many non sheep hunters would be putting in a sheep draw and going out and shooting a banana ram. Let's fast forward five years down the road...... All you would see in the mountains is banana Rams

I have no doubt that givin time and our govt they will wreck this amazing resource of ours, one way or another.

How would this be any different than the mule deer draw over most of the province. Is there a point or age restriction on mule deer? How has the population of mule deer in the province changed since most of it went to draw years ago?

[Acesneights]

Originally Posted by bdub

How would this be any different than the mule deer draw over most of the province. Is there a point or age restriction on mule deer? How has the population of mule deer in the province changed since most of it went to draw years ago?

Because people who don't sheep hunt and don't grasp the concept of sheep hunting would kill sheep. So sheep hunting would turn into mule deer hunting without the quantity of sheep to support it. Sheep are not mule deer and they don't thrive in every zone throughout the province.

[Lr1000]

However if the gov starts to try and control sheep to more of a degree then it is now, by putting on full curl. Where is it going to end? The whitetail, mule deer and elk enthusiasts will want draws, to increase trophy quality. Where does it end, we will have no general tags in 10 years. We hunters are our own worst enemies. I too would like to see more mature Rams every year. However I have one and now I'm more in it for the experience every year and if I take one every ten years then so be it but I would like to be able to go every year.

[bdub]

Originally Posted by Acesneights

At the end of the day it is just reducing hunting opportunity. Which I believe allowing our government to make any decision to cut hunting oppurtinity for the general public while allowing landowner tags and subsistence hunting is a negative. With all the dependents in this province and the way things are going we will be lucky if the next generation can hunt at all without a big wallet.

Originally Posted by Lr1000

However if the gov starts to try and control sheep to more of a degree then it is now, by putting on full curl. Where is it going to end? The whitetail, mule deer and elk enthusiasts will want draws, to increase trophy quality. Where does it end, we will have no general tags in 10 years. We hunters are our own worst enemies. I too would like to see more mature Rams every year. However I have one and now I'm more in it for the experience every year and if I take one every ten years then so be it but I would like to be able to go every year.

I don't know what the best solution is or the right answer. I do know that the dynamics of the ram herds in much of the province is screwed up due to us killing almost all the rams in the age class we are now. It is not natural or healthy for the sheep population that we kill off almost all the rams before they reach a class 4 status. All hunters and especially sheep hunters should be taking a longer term veiw of the situation instead of a selfish short term veiw. Are we conservationists first and foremost or not?

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by bdub

I don't know what the best solution is or the right answer. I do know that the dynamics of the ram herds in much of the province is screwed up due to us killing almost all the rams in the age class we are now. It is not natural or healthy for the sheep population that we kill off almost all the rams before they reach a class 4 status. All hunters and especially sheep hunters should be taking a longer term veiw of the situation instead of a selfish short term veiw. Are we conservationists first and foremost or not?

How many sheep in 2013 got killed in the age class 5-7 yeras old, you keep referencing?

[bdub]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

How many sheep in 2013 got killed in the age class 5-7 yeras old, you keep referencing?

I don't know for 2013 but it must be quite a few if the average age of all rams harvested is 7.5 recently, as in the last 20 years or so.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by bdub

I don't know what the best solution is or the right answer. I do know that the dynamics of the ram herds in much of the province is screwed up due to us killing almost all the rams in the age class we are now. It is not natural or healthy for the sheep population that we kill off almost all the rams before they reach a class 4 status. All hunters and especially sheep hunters should be taking a longer term veiw of the situation instead of a selfish short term veiw. Are we conservationists first and foremost or not?

You do realize that all those park rams that migrate to the breeding grounds ARE part of the population. .. ?

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

You do realize that all those park rams that migrate to the breeding grounds ARE part of the population. .. ?

Lol... i was going there next..and the b.c rams...

Plus when was last time they did aerial surveys?

[bdub]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

You do realize that all those park rams that migrate to the breeding grounds ARE part of the population. .. ?

Should we not want to have a healthy ram herd dynamics both in and outside of the parks..? And yes I am not retarded in an answer to your question.

[bdub]

Originally Posted by Acesneights

Because people who don't sheep hunt and don't grasp the concept of sheep hunting would kill sheep. So sheep hunting would turn into mule deer hunting without the quantity of sheep to support it. Sheep are not mule deer and they don't thrive in every zone throughout the province.

No doubt the number of tags and success rates would be far lower for sheep than muley and would have a bearing on number of tags issued per wmu.

[Acesneights]

Originally Posted by bdub

No doubt the number of tags and success rates would be far lower for sheep than muley and would have a bearing on number of tags issued per wmu.

At the end of the day it is just reducing hunting opportunity. Which I believe allowing our government to make any decision to cut hunting oppurtinity for the general public while allowing landowner tags and subsistence hunting is a negative. With all the dependents in this province and the way things are going we will be lucky if the next generation can hunt at all without a big wallet.

[walking buffalo]

Update. ...

ESRD F&W is unable to provide a written copy of the sheep regulation change proposal at this time.. in addition, there is unwillingness to release the concerns and reasoning for the regulation changes until the researchers complete their work on the data.

In other words, f&w needs more time to decipher the data and make it fit into a pre-determined problem...


F&w has stated that the proposal and concerns/reasoning will be made available during the March 4 sheep meeting.

It is unacceptable to expect interest group representatives to take time off work and travel to attend a meeting discussing sheep management changes without first being provided the information pertinent to the issue at hand.

It is time for the Environment minister to step in and make the beaurocrats release all the information and data within sixty days. End this beaurocratic manipulation for agenda based decisions.

[grinr]

Originally Posted by Acesneights

This idea is complete ludicrous. If esrd thinks hunters are affecting the genetics now. Take a guess at how many non sheep hunters would be putting in a sheep draw and going out and shooting a banana ram. Let's fast forward five years down the road...... All you would see in the mountains is banana Rams

I have no doubt that givin time and our govt they will wreck this amazing resource of ours, one way or another.

Not saying at all that putting sheep on draw is a sound option,but just curious,what makes you think that "non-sheephunters" would bother with a draw when they don't even have any interest in hunting sheep at present with over the counter tags?

[Lr1000]

Originally Posted by grinr

Not saying at all that putting sheep on draw is a sound option,but just curious,what makes you think that "non-sheephunters" would bother with a draw when they don't even have any interest in hunting sheep at present with over the counter tags?

Because hunters/peta puts in for all draws since it only costs $3.50. Just look at the 437-438 draw. It's all plugged up with ppl that could really care less if they draw it and wouldn't even hunt it if they did. I know a number of ppl personally that I just shake my head at. There are also anti hunters that apply for tags to save one animal at a time. Draws are flawed!