Pheasant Raise and Release Project

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by pgavey

The sharpe tailed grouse is a very smart bird. About ten years ago we had a rough winter with lots of snow. All of a sudden there were sharpies all over Medicine Hat city. I had them eating under my bird feeder, My crab apple tree, and my Son had 21 on his garage roof eating seed pods on a weeping birch tree.
It was awesome to see. Once the snow settled down the grouse left the city.
Beautiful.

I can remember seeing more than 50 sharptailed grouse in a flock in the early 70's, but farmers kept removing cover to get more acres to seed, and now you are lucky to even see a single sharptailed grouse in the same area.Without habitat, you won't have grouse or pheasants

[pikergolf]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I can remember seeing more than 50 sharptailed grouse in a flock in the early 70's, but farmers kept removing cover to get more acres to seed, and now you are lucky to even see a single sharptailed grouse in the same area.Without habitat, you won't have grouse or pheasants

Oddly enough the pheasants down here do better with the limited cover we have than the chickens do. Seems chickens need large swatches of good cover than pheasants.

[alta270]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I can remember seeing more than 50 sharptailed grouse in a flock in the early 70's, but farmers kept removing cover to get more acres to seed, and now you are lucky to even see a single sharptailed grouse in the same area.Without habitat, you won't have grouse or pheasants

The biggest problem for sharpies is the destruction of leks.

[waterninja]

Originally Posted by Reeves1

I didn't read every ones reply .....just wanted to say, you know nothing about Pheasants in AB. re: habitat

Very good point. I'll leave that up to the biologists and other professionals that are running this program.
I'm guessing you prefer that they don't even try? If so, then I'm glad you have no say in the matter.

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by pikergolf

I don't even bother hunting them, but then my hips can only take 4 or 5 miles. Pheasant's are far more accommodating.

I don't think I will have an easy time of it this year because of my hip but I should not have to put up with too much pain to put a couple in the bag. After the season was over, I hunted deer in the same area and there were lots of birds left. I usually only kill 2 or 3 per year but I eat a few more because one of the guys I shoot with does not like eating them. My gain

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by waterninja

Very good point. I'll leave that up to the biologists and other professionals that are running this program.
I'm guessing you prefer that they don't even try? If so, then I'm glad you have no say in the matter.

My prediction is that these "professionals " will not be recommending that the pheasants be released "all over Alberta", but rather that they only be released in locations in Southern Alberta, where they have the best odds of survival.

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I can remember seeing more than 50 sharptailed grouse in a flock in the early 70's, but farmers kept removing cover to get more acres to seed, and now you are lucky to even see a single sharptailed grouse in the same area.Without habitat, you won't have grouse or pheasants

I don't think it was one flock but last year we saw at least a hundred in one small area. It was after sun up and we were sipping coffee in my truck when we spotted a dozen or so on the trail. We could only approach head on and they started to flush way before we got in range. They just flushed in small groups of 2 or 3 birds to a dozen at a time and kept flushing and flushing. One of my companions got one in range. After that we worked the tops of coulees and Saskatoon bushes and saw birds but most spooked out of range. Then we were pushing through the a bit of buck brush and bang bang bang and bang and maybe a couple more and we had 4 more in the bag.

Long walk back to my truck and more coffee and we were on our way home before noon. My type of shoot.

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by alta270

The biggest problem for sharpies is the destruction of leks.

I am sure that agriculture does not help them but what are leks?

[Talking moose]

Originally Posted by covey ridge

I am sure that agriculture does not help them but what are leks?

Mating grounds I believe... where they dance around and strut they're stuff.

[purgatory.sv]

Originally Posted by Talking moose

Mating grounds I believe... where they dance around and strut they're stuff.

yes

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by Talking moose

Mating grounds I believe... where they dance around and strut they're stuff.

I have never seen that but where I hunt the landowner says that they dance on his place. He has a dam and dug out and runs a few cows on the grass but there is not a cropped field for a few miles.

[alta270]

Originally Posted by covey ridge

I am sure that agriculture does not help them but what are leks?

Originally Posted by Talking moose

Mating grounds I believe... where they dance around and strut they're stuff.

Talking moose is correct. It is their dancing grounds, and they come back to them year after year. If they are disrupted by tilling and planting, they lose an area that they will breed in.

[waterninja]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

My prediction is that these "professionals " will not be recommending that the pheasants be released "all over Alberta", but rather that they only be released in locations in Southern Alberta, where they have the best odds of survival.

You might be correct. I have been in contact with both the ACA and the 4H club letting them know that pheasants are overwintering around plain lake. If they can overwinter, then why not at least try even 20-50 hens this year at plain lake? Don't really see the harm in it, and who knows, it just might start a future generation of wild pheasants.
In any case I will be hunting that release site this year and would love to be able to pass up on some hens.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by waterninja

You might be correct. I have been in contact with both the ACA and the 4H club letting them know that pheasants are overwintering around plain lake. If they can overwinter, then why not at least try even 20-50 hens this year at plain lake? Don't really see the harm in it, and who knows, it just might start a future generation of wild pheasants.
In any case I will be hunting that release site this year and would love to be able to pass up on some hens.

If ACA was going to make the investment of releasing some hens that far north, probably the last place that they would release them would be on the release site where the risk of someone not identifying them correctly, and shooting them is quite likely.

[Reeves1]

Originally Posted by waterninja

Very good point. I'll leave that up to the biologists and other professionals that are running this program.
I'm guessing you prefer that they don't even try? If so, then I'm glad you have no say in the matter.

If you use the search function , you should be able to find reams of info, on even this forum. It has been covered extensively .

You don't know me, so I'll touch on that.
I've been involved with Pheasants all my life. I've read info covering not only AB on raise / release, but all over the world.
I've also been known to have (in the past - not much into it now for many reasons) to have some of the best stock in North America.
But not much into Ring Necks. I've been more involved with a good number of the other 49 species.....

AB just doesn't have great habitat & weather for them. This problems has worsened over the years & will not get any better, without a huge investment & Gov help.
Lots more to it than I want to type out: it's been covered.......

[waterninja]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

If ACA was going to make the investment of releasing some hens that far north, probably the last place that they would release them would be on the release site where the risk of someone not identifying them correctly, and shooting them is quite likely.

Straight to the negative as always. It is illegal to shoot the hens. Shooting them is quite likely? Why is that elk?
I imagine there could be the odd mistake now and then, but generally hunters are a lot more observant and careful then you give them them credit for.
There are also other area's in central AB where they could release both hens and cocks to see if they could survive.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by waterninja

Straight to the negative as always. It is illegal to shoot the hens. Shooting them is quite likely? Why is that elk?
I imagine there could be the odd mistake now and then, but generally hunters are a lot more observant and careful then you give them them credit for.
There are also other area's in central AB where they could release both hens and cocks to see if they could survive.

Not negative, just common sense. If you want to try and establish a wild population. it only makes sense to release them where they have the best chance for survival, and that isn't at a pheasant release site where people are there to shoot pheasants.. It's illegal to shoot antlered deer if you only have an antlerless tag as well, but it still happens.

[waterninja]

Originally Posted by Reeves1

If you use the search function , you should be able to find reams of info, on even this forum. It has been covered extensively .

You don't know me, so I'll touch on that.
I've been involved with Pheasants all my life. I've read info covering not only AB on raise / release, but all over the world.
I've also been known to have (in the past - not much into it now for many reasons) to have some of the best stock in North America.
But not much into Ring Necks. I've been more involved with a good number of the other 49 species.....

AB just doesn't have great habitat & weather for them. This problems has worsened over the years & will not get any better, without a huge investment & Gov help.
Lots more to it than I want to type out: it's been covered.......

Well, it sounds like you have some knowledge about this subject. I agree that our severe winters would make it tough for pheasants to thrive in AB, but the fact remains that since they started releasing them around Plain Lake they have been overwintering. If the cocks can do it, why not the hens. Sounds like the ones who overwintered are the breeding stock we are looking for.
As for habitat, well there are lots of open fields, and there are lots of quarters of bush. Huge investments have been made by organizations like the ACA, Bucks for Wildlife, Ducks unlimited and others. Also there is a growing trend among a lot of landowners to keep their properties "natural" and not clearcut them for crops.
To me it is a no brainer to at least give it a try. Pheasants are being transported to release sites anyways. Why not add in a crate of hens now and then while your going there anyways?
As a matter of fact, It occurs to me that since I know landowners that are very close to to the release site, I'll inquire about getting permission for the release truck driver to release a crate of hens/cocks onto their property. I'm sure something could be arranged.

[waterninja]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Not negative, just common sense. If you want to try and establish a wild population. it only makes sense to release them where they have the best chance for survival, and that isn't at a pheasant release site where people are there to shoot pheasants.. It's illegal to shoot antlered deer if you only have an antlerless tag as well, but it still happens.

You missed the part where I said the odd mistake could happen. I even heard of a hunter being shot in the release site parking lot, but heard later it was just a hoax. By your logic, we should stop hunting Moose, because they could be mistaken for a domestic cow.

[hal53]

Originally Posted by waterninja

You missed the part where I said the odd mistake could happen. I even heard of a hunter being shot in the release site parking lot, but heard later it was just a hoax. By your logic, we should stop hunting Moose, because they could be mistaken for a domestic cow.

Sigh...once again you're missing the point. If you are going to try and establish a breeding population in central or northern Alberta ( not likely to work), the last place you would stock them is a release site where they are getting chased out of the area, and there is a possibility that a lot of the hens would be accidentally harvested.

[covey ridge]

If there is a hope that these released birds are to breed and populate an area the area selected should not be anywhere near where they will experience hunting pressure. There should be no hunting until a population is established.

Once established hunting pressure should be limited.

For those who wish to shoot pheasants in Alberta the present release and shoot programs or paid release will have to do.

If that seems negative, well that is where I am at. I am doing my part to help populate wild populations of pheasants by not hunting them. Between Sharptail and Huns and Ruffs, I have lots of shooting opportunity.

I still buy a pheasant licence to contribute to the program but usually only use it to prevent one of the stupid ones from being coyote food. The last few I shot seemed starved with no grain in their crop.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by waterninja

You missed the part where I said the odd mistake could happen
.

The odd mistake can always happen, but it would be asinine to greatly increase the risk of that happening by releasing hens at a site where people are there to shoot pheasants. That would be like sending your children to play on a busy highway.

[waterninja]

Originally Posted by hal53

Sigh...once again you're missing the point. If you are going to try and establish a breeding population in central or northern Alberta ( not likely to work), the last place you would stock them is a release site where they are getting chased out of the area, and there is a possibility that a lot of the hens would be accidentally harvested.

No Hal, you are missing the point. a lot of the pheasants that are released at that site are shot or chased off the property very quickly. It's the ones that are chased off that are overwintering.
My main point is that they already have a system in place for delivering them to a certain area. They are being driven a long distance already, why make it harder?They would not have to spend extra time and money setting up a new system. Or they could release them close to the main release site on private land with landowners permission. Or release both sex's in a completley different area, though it would cost more time and money.
The real question is whether or not they could survive the winters and the predators, but we will never know unless we try. We have wild pheasants living 2 blocks away from me along the river valley and around the Highlands golf course here in Edm. The winters are the same, and we have a lot of the same predators but yet they continue to survive.
Haven't seen one this spring yet, but I hope they made

[waterninja]

Originally Posted by covey ridge

If there is a hope that these released birds are to breed and populate an area the area selected should not be anywhere near where they will experience hunting pressure. There should be no hunting until a population is established.

Once established hunting pressure should be limited.

For those who wish to shoot pheasants in Alberta the present release and shoot programs or paid release will have to do.

If that seems negative, well that is where I am at. I am doing my part to help populate wild populations of pheasants by not hunting them. Between Sharptail and Huns and Ruffs, I have lots of shooting opportunity.

I still buy a pheasant licence to contribute to the program but usually only use it to prevent one of the stupid ones from being coyote food. The last few I shot seemed starved with no grain in their crop.

Covey you make excellent points, and you are being realistic not negative. Problem is, I can think of very few places in central AB where pheasants would not encounter some kind of hunting pressure, just like any other game bird that seem to be able to survive.
Only place I can think of off hand is Elk Island National Park. That could be a great place to study pheasant survival chances. Maybe I'll apply for a grant. lol
You never know. I might even buy a few hens and "salt" the surrounding release site area myself. I saw 3 cock pheasants last month while picking mushrooms. I know there are more around. I got one on video and he sure looked lonely. I'm trying to do something about that. If it fails, it fails. Would at least give me one more thing to be watching for besides morel's and sheds.

P.S. I know some of the usuall suspects will jump in and say that I am breaking some rule or reg or might even be poaching by even suggesting to release hen pheasants near a release site, but rest assured I will look into it first. All I ask is if you see a hen pheasant while out in that area, please don't shoot it. She's the future.

[Big Grey Wolf]

I raised pheasants for a number of years. The coyotes and fox do catch some but many resident trappers trim them back when $150 coyote pelts. The main problem is "raptors". We have done to good a job of protecting them. When I would release 3-4 hens and a rooster in good cover, the cock would start crowing about how good a lover he was and an hour later would be a pile of feathers.
The cold in Alberta is not a problem our winters are much warmer now than in the 60's and 70's. Kleiken shut down the Brooks hatchery where upto 100,000 birds were raised per year and released. "That is why we had good pheasant numbers before we put a fool in the legislature".

[waterninja]

Originally Posted by Reeves1

If you use the search function , you should be able to find reams of info, on even this forum. It has been covered extensively .

You don't know me, so I'll touch on that.
I've been involved with Pheasants all my life. I've read info covering not only AB on raise / release, but all over the world.
I've also been known to have (in the past - not much into it now for many reasons) to have some of the best stock in North America.
But not much into Ring Necks. I've been more involved with a good number of the other 49 species.....

AB just doesn't have great habitat & weather for them. This problems has worsened over the years & will not get any better, without a huge investment & Gov help.
Lots more to it than I want to type out: it's been covered.......

I would like to ask you a question Reeves. I have only seen, or heard about Ring Neck pheasants in AB. Is that because they are the hardiest of pheasants and have the best chance of survival in our climate? Is there a better breed of pheasant that would have a better chance of survival in AB? Thanks

[wwbirds]

There are Chinese ringnecks Manchurian ringnecks but as Reeves and many others have suggested it has been tried before. When I moved here in 1984 there was a good population of pheasants primarily because the Brooks hatchery was releasing over 100,000 a year. hens were also released and since we are on the extreme northern most portion of natural pheasant habitat at Brooks latitude many winters all the birds are pretty much wiped out. the manchurians are the hardiest I have kept and they will only scratch down a foot of snow or less to obtain food. if snow is deeper they will all die. Like Reeves I was born and raised on a bird farm in southern Ontario and have been operating a preserve for the past 34 years here in Alberta. The habitat of the 60's and 70's has been eliminated by modern farming practices of fence to fence cultivation. the old headlands of 20 or 30 feet on a fenceline are gone. Irrigation ditches are no longer weed strewn sources of food and cover.
Millions of dollars a year have been spent for over 30 years and planting pheasants in alberta despite the few who make it for a year or two in isolated areas is for the most part put and take.
You can try anything you want but the knowledge experience history all indicate that it cannot be done successfully. there will always be pockets but for the most part it is not sustainable to continue planting them.

[waterninja]

Originally Posted by wwbirds

There are Chinese ringnecks Manchurian ringnecks but as Reeves and many others have suggested it has been tried before. When I moved here in 1984 there was a good population of pheasants primarily because the Brooks hatchery was releasing over 100,000 a year. hens were also released and since we are on the extreme northern most portion of natural pheasant habitat at Brooks latitude many winters all the birds are pretty much wiped out. the manchurians are the hardest I have kept and they will only scratch down a foot of snow or less to obtain food. if snow is deeper they will all die. Like Reeves I was born and raised on a bird farm in southern Ontario and have been operating a preserve for the past 34 years here in Alberta. The habitat of the 60's and 70's has been eliminated by modern farming practices of fence to fence cultivation. the old headlands of 20 or 30 feet on a fenceline are gone. Irrigation ditches are no longer weed strewn sources of food and cover.
Millions of dollars a year have been spent for over 30 years and planting pheasants in alberta despite the few who make it for a year or two in isolated areas is for the most part put and take.
You can try anything you want but the knowledge experience history all indicate that it cannot be done successfully. there will always be pockets but for the most part it is not sustainable to continue planting them.

Thanks for the info. You certainly know your pheasants. I always figured game birds ate whatever berries/food they could find above the snow cover. It sounds like a losing proposition to try and get pheasants just to survive around here. Yet since they started the release program, pheasants have been surviving the winters.If it's possible I still plan to release some hens this fall if the ACA doesn't. You never know, I might help create a "pocket".

"The Rare Breed" James Steward movie

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by waterninja

Covey you make excellent points, and you are being realistic not negative. Problem is, I can think of very few places in central AB where pheasants would not encounter some kind of hunting pressure, just like any other game bird that seem to be able to survive.
Only place I can think of off hand is Elk Island National Park. That could be a great place to study pheasant survival chances. Maybe I'll apply for a grant. lol
You never know. I might even buy a few hens and "salt" the surrounding release site area myself. I saw 3 cock pheasants last month while picking mushrooms. I know there are more around. I got one on video and he sure looked lonely. I'm trying to do something about that. If it fails, it fails. Would at least give me one more thing to be watching for besides morel's and sheds.

P.S. I know some of the usuall suspects will jump in and say that I am breaking some rule or reg or might even be poaching by even suggesting to release hen pheasants near a release site, but rest assured I will look into it first. All I ask is if you see a hen pheasant while out in that area, please don't shoot it. She's the future.

I see no problem with releasing a few hens but you may want to check if there is a disease or virus issue before releasing something into the wild.

I would think that hens or female pheasants that have been raised without a mom may develop a headache and may not want to do anything more than survive. Like elk mentioned about throwing children in traffic I think he may have a point. I also think that a female pheasant that wasn't eaten within 24 hours would have other things than romance on her mind.

I have never been into shooting on release sites but the one I have seen seem more to favor hunting opportunity more than a place where a pheasant would choose to survive.

I am hoping that the hens you release will be fruitful and multiply.

[sns2]

It's all been said. Thanks WW and Covey.

We have native species that will live, while pheasants have been a put and take proposition. IMO, ACA does a good job, and if you have the right attitude, and common sense, release sites can be lots of fun. They all aren't stupid birds.