Government Workers Wage Rollback

[Scott N]

I worked for the government when Ralph was elected back in the early 90s, and our wages were rolled back 5%. Lots of us lost our jobs because of layoffs and privatization, but the cut backs and job losses did result in something positive for the province's finances.

It sucks that all those sacrifices were for nothing, the province is in huge debt again because of poor government decisions over the years, and now current employees are again being forced to take wage cuts because the province isn't very good with finances. I feel for anyone that this is affecting now, and hopefully this cycle won't repeat it's self again in a decade or two.

[bessiedog]

Whelp... good news! I got a small plumbing tin basing gig to go to if I need to.

This does mean I won’t be organizing and/fundraising for the travel club I was doing. 20-40 ain’t gonna be doin that (I gotta work instead of extra curr stuff). That sucks.

Plus maybe no more coaching n stuff... which also sucks.... but I’m not getting paid for them things so they must not be valuable an I gots bills to pay with them hours.


I am thankful someone is willing to give me a job if I need. But just you watch the hate ons if/when I retreat from the ‘volunteer’ stuff. Betcha I’ll be accused of takin it out on the kids.....sigh.

[raab]

Originally Posted by bessiedog

Whelp... good news! I got a small plumbing tin basing gig to go to if I need to.

This does mean I won’t be organizing and/fundraising for the travel club I was doing. 20-40 ain’t gonna be doin that (I gotta work instead of extra curr stuff). That sucks.

Plus maybe no more coaching n stuff... which also sucks.... but I’m not getting paid for them things so they must not be valuable an I gots bills to pay with them hours.


I am thankful someone is willing to give me a job if I need. But just you watch the hate ons if/when I retreat from the ‘volunteer’ stuff. Betcha I’ll be accused of takin it out on the kids.....sigh.

Can I ask how big this rollback is, that you have to take on another job? From my understanding the rollback is on the 5-7% ask from the unions, and the government wants 3-5%. Its not a rollback on your current wage.

[R3illy]

I find it interesting anyone with a potential wage roll back complains while providing no alternatives. Isnt this what your union should be proposing? Find some savings. Oh that's right the only option is the never ending wage increases every year.

How sustainable is that?

My wife is with aupe. Shes waiting to see how things play out before jumping to conclusions or making rash decisions.

[.257Weatherby]

Originally Posted by R3illy

I find it interesting anyone with a potential wage roll back complains while providing no alternatives. Isnt this what your union should be proposing? Find some savings. Oh that's right the only option is the never ending wage increases every year.

How sustainable is that?

My wife is with aupe. Shes waiting to see how things play out before jumping to conclusions or making rash decisions.

Unions have clauses in their contracts that generally cover what your talking about.
But, management usually cries poverty before attempting to talk about solutions all the while giving big raises to the CEO and other top echelon managers.
.257Weatherby

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by .257Weatherby

Unions have clauses in their contracts that generally cover what your talking about.
But, management usually cries poverty before attempting to talk about solutions all the while giving big raises to the CEO and other top echelon managers.
.257Weatherby

Sounds like it is time for the union to do what they are supposed to do and stand up to management rather than the government.

[WhiteTailAB]

Well after reading this I will no longer say teachers make $100,000 a year. I will say almost $100,000 aka $95000. I mean whats $5000 here and there. Maybe it's $105,000 some years.


I also love how nurses are saying they are so hard done by, they gotta work shift work, long hours, overtime, miss holidays. It's like they have never met someone in the trades LOL. The only tough thing might be watching people die on shift.

Yeah I've done shift work, 16-18hr+ days, made big bank doing OT which you always have the option to refuse. Funny how nurses always forget to say that they make good cash doing all that horrible OT!!! I've missed holidays, oh also when you work holidays you get sweet OT!!! Life must be so tough. Being home each night while sleeping on that bed of OT money. Very few nurses go up to camp, most probably couldn't handle it.

For so many "educated" people on the left that hate these cuts why in their infinite wisdom can they not understand that spending like there is no tomorrow and bankrupting your province isn't gonna end well.

"Think of the future and the world you want to leave your kids, pay carbon taxes."
"Think of the future and the world you want to live in, run up debt make your great great great grandkids pay off your deficit."

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by WhiteTailAB

Well after reading this I will no longer say teachers make $100,000 a year. I will say almost $100,000 aka $95000. I mean whats $5000 here and there. Maybe it's $105,000 some years.


I also love how nurses are saying they are so hard done by, they gotta work shift work, long hours, overtime, miss holidays. It's like they have never met someone in the trades LOL. The only tough thing might be watching people die on shift.

Yeah I've done shift work, 16-18hr+ days, made big bank doing OT which you always have the option to refuse. Funny how nurses always forget to say that they make good cash doing all that horrible OT!!! I've missed holidays, oh also when you work holidays you get sweet OT!!! Life must be so tough. Being home each night while sleeping on that bed of OT money. Very few nurses go up to camp, most probably couldn't handle it.

For so many "educated" people on the left that hate these cuts why in their infinite wisdom can they not understand that spending like there is no tomorrow and bankrupting your province isn't gonna end well.

"Think of the future and the world you want to leave your kids, pay carbon taxes."
"Think of the future and the world you want to live in, run up debt make your great great great grandkids pay off your deficit."

I have worked up to 24 hours at a time, and up to 30 days straight at times, and at -50, when I was younger, and we earned our money, but I would never want to trade jobs with a nurse that works in a palliative ward. I have lived with a nurse that worked in a palliative ward, and watching people die every week , and dealing with the mess of bodily fluids when some of them die, definitely takes it's toll. I imagine that it isn't a lot different than the issues that many soldiers suffer from , after watching people die on a regular basis. So I for one, don't begrudge nurses for what they make. There are some civil servants that have it very easy, but nurses earn their money.

[WhiteTailAB]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I have worked up to 24 hours at a time, and up to 30 days straight at times, and at -50, when I was younger, and we earned our money, but I would never want to trade jobs with a nurse that works in a palliative ward. I have lived with a nurse that worked in a palliative ward, and watching people die every week , and dealing with the mess of bodily fluids when some of them die, definitely takes it's toll. I imagine that it isn't a lot different than the issues that many soldiers suffer from , after watching people die on a regular basis. So I for one, don't begrudge nurses for what they make. There are some civil servants that have it very easy, but nurses earn their money.

My point is they sure love to complain when the government doesn't deliver on a silver platter but they never speak about how good they got it, body fluids and death aside. That's a given, you don't enter nursing school thinking you'll never see any of that. Probably like teachers, complaining they gotta put up with brat students all day but their teachers conventions in banff and vegas, etc. sweet 3 month vacation etc etc.

And like I'm seeing posts of nurses and teachers saying "Don't complain when your services suffer and wait times go up and classes fill up" .... like we are already there, it's already bad. Paying you more isn't gonna fix any of that because if that were the case it would have been fixed years ago lol.

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I have worked up to 24 hours at a time, and up to 30 days straight at times, and at -50, when I was younger, and we earned our money, but I would never want to trade jobs with a nurse that works in a palliative ward. I have lived with a nurse that worked in a palliative ward, and watching people die every week , and dealing with the mess of bodily fluids when some of them die, definitely takes it's toll. I imagine that it isn't a lot different than the issues that many soldiers suffer from , after watching people die on a regular basis. So I for one, don't begrudge nurses for what they make. There are some civil servants that have it very easy, but nurses earn their money.

For sure they earn their money and I respect them all for what they do. But remember they chose their profession and chose where they want to work.

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by R3illy

I find it interesting anyone with a potential wage roll back complains while providing no alternatives. Isnt this what your union should be proposing? Find some savings. Oh that's right the only option is the never ending wage increases every year.

How sustainable is that?

.

That's pretty ignorant. I don't think the OP deserves that kick in the teeth after receiving a kick in the berries.

[Mavrick]

Originally Posted by bessiedog

Whelp... good news! I got a small plumbing tin basing gig to go to if I need to.

This does mean I won’t be organizing and/fundraising for the travel club I was doing. 20-40 ain’t gonna be doin that (I gotta work instead of extra curr stuff). That sucks.

Plus maybe no more coaching n stuff... which also sucks.... but I’m not getting paid for them things so they must not be valuable an I gots bills to pay with them hours.


I am thankful someone is willing to give me a job if I need. But just you watch the hate ons if/when I retreat from the ‘volunteer’ stuff. Betcha I’ll be accused of takin it out on the kids.....sigh.

I volunteer coach at a school, hunt, fish, spend time outdoors, take my wife on dates, work 50-60 hours a week. Have had a 10% hit on my income over the last few years. I put two kids through college and I make about what a school teacher makes. I know others that do about the same, we talk about a full life over a beer once a week. I'm living a long happy life (60). It doable. ps: I don't hate ya lad.

[kayaker]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Perhaps if Notley hadn't hired those thousands and thousands of civil servants after being elected, these rollbacks would not be required?

To fair, the last govt didn't hire with abandon.

The AB civil service by proportion of population has not grown since the mid 1970's, and by proportion of overall provincial employment has actually shrunk in recent years. Its similarly sized to ON and BC.

[sns2]

Originally Posted by R3illy

I find it interesting anyone with a potential wage roll back complains while providing no alternatives. Isnt this what your union should be proposing? Find some savings. Oh that's right the only option is the never ending wage increases every year.

How sustainable is that?

My wife is with aupe. Shes waiting to see how things play out before jumping to conclusions or making rash decisions.

ATA is waiting to see how the arbitrator rules on the current round of negotiations that was postponed by Kenney. The past has to be dealt with before the future is tackled.

[bessiedog]

Originally Posted by Mavrick

I volunteer coach at a school, hunt, fish, spend time outdoors, take my wife on dates, work 50-60 hours a week. Have had a 10% hit on my income over the last few years. I put two kids through college and I make about what a school teacher makes. I know others that do about the same, we talk about a full life over a beer once a week. I'm living a long happy life (60). It doable. ps: I don't hate ya lad.

And your obviously better than me. Lots of people are.
As things are now... my bank account is zeroed out with days left. There’s guys on AO that have been to my place and know me... I’m not a spendy fellow.

And somehow this is turning into a ‘about me’ and my financial acumen thing.

Wayy off topic.

If I shake a hand and make a deal. That should mean something.
If I take a hit..... I’ll take a hit and roll with it. Do Wut I got do.

[BlackHeart]

Originally Posted by Flatlandliver

In previous PC governments governance of the LAPP was held by a single minister. The NDP legislated join governance between the stakeholders. Kenny is reversing the legislation. And yes, that minister can make changes with the stroke of a pen. That’s why unions spent so much effort, and $ lobbying so the people who fund the pension would have control of it, weird concept hey. When times are bad governments dogwhistle that public service pensions drain the coffers. It’s complete bs. The LAP is healthy and overfunded. When a public servant retires only .25 from every dollar comes from the taxpayer, the rest is employee contributions and plan investments. The retirees then spend that money in their communities helping drive the economy.

You need a manure spreader for this post.
Employees only contribute 50% at best.
For a number of years the LAPP was underfunded.....employees were having another 1% of their income deducted which was matched by the employers to resolve this.
Eventually theAB govt kicked in a substantial amount to resolve without employee's help.

Rarely is a pension such as this overfunded.....it may have made a good return and be in the positive....for a while....but the stock market can make this a negative very fast.

Retirees also spend a lot of this in Florida, Arizona as well.

The change in governance is good.....stops the NDP loving unions from directing the pension plan to make political donations and investing in NDP favored schemes.

[Talking moose]

I work in the oil industry. I’d be more than happy to take a 15% wage loss just to keep my job and ease my mind. Be happy.
Heck from what I’m used of I’ve already learned to live with a 40% wage reduction in lost overtime and hours.
A 5% reduction in wages but the fact you know your job ain’t going anywhere is laughable compared to thousands of people with a real problem.

[sns2]

Originally Posted by WhiteTailAB

My point is they sure love to complain when the government doesn't deliver on a silver platter but they never speak about how good they got it, body fluids and death aside. That's a given, you don't enter nursing school thinking you'll never see any of that. Probably like teachers, complaining they gotta put up with brat students all day but their teachers conventions in banff and vegas, etc. sweet 3 month vacation etc etc.

And like I'm seeing posts of nurses and teachers saying "Don't complain when your services suffer and wait times go up and classes fill up" .... like we are already there, it's already bad. Paying you more isn't gonna fix any of that because if that were the case it would have been fixed years ago lol.

Been to a few conferences over my time. Never seen a mountain. Lethbridge is as far as I made it. LOL. Damn, I must be in the wrong school.

[Talking moose]

Not trying to be mean but compared to a lot of people that just means no ice cream on your cake...

[R3illy]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

That's pretty ignorant. I don't think the OP deserves that kick in the teeth after receiving a kick in the berries.

I never attacked anyone. I spoke generally in that theres lots of complaining happening when things have yet to play out. My statement still stands that there should be solutions being provided by those who may be affected but all we see is a bunch of whining and crying with demands for more raises.

It's almost like you think the public sector has no role in our budgets and no role in fixing our financial mess.

Originally Posted by sns2

ATA is waiting to see how the arbitrator rules on the current round of negotiations that was postponed by Kenney. The past has to be dealt with before the future is tackled.

It will be interesting to see how things play out but I dont see why people are jumping to conclusions and creating mass paranoia. The unions seem to be doing a good job to make sure this happens tho.

[sns2]

Originally Posted by BlackHeart

You need a manure spreader for this post.
Employees only contribute 50% at best.
For a number of years the LAPP was underfunded.....employees were having another 1% of their income deducted which was matched by the employers to resolve this.
Eventually theAB govt kicked in a substantial amount to resolve without employee's help.

Rarely is a pension such as this overfunded.....it may have made a good return and be in the positive....for a while....but the stock market can make this a negative very fast.

Retirees also spend a lot of this in Florida, Arizona as well.

The change in governance is good.....stops the NDP loving unions from directing the pension plan to make political donations and investing in NDP favored schemes.

I'm a card carrying UCP member, but also an ATA school rep. Correct me if I am wrong, but I think it was the NDP who brought in legislation that limits political donations provincially. As for investing in NDP favored schemes, at our meeting last night I learned we have investments in both tobacco and firearms companies. LOL.

In all seriousness, unions have controlled their pension investments for decades; in the case of Alberta teachers it has been 80 years. I personally don't care who is investing my retirement contributions as long as they are earning rates of return that are equal to what the ATA does. However, in the last decade which we saw stats for last night, our rates of return have been significantly higher than that of AIMCO (the gov't agency). We are also puzzled as to why it was done with absolutely no notice or discussion. Our union forund out about it in the papers.

Why draw battle lines, pull your guns and switchblades, and say it's a battle royale? Why not work together to address financial realities? When you approach problems in this fashion it never ends well.

We can yak all we want about which gov't is good and which one is bad. The reality is that our economy is screwed up due to world energy prices, limited pipeline capacity, the rapid development of American oilfields contributing to a glut of oil, and a federal gov't that is hell bent on abusing us with hypocritical policies that allow oil tankers full of Saudi oil to cruise up and down the St Lawrence, but will not allow a tanker on the BC coast.

Our gov't spending has increased exponentially for two reasons: A) An absolute infrastructure deficit from the Klein era and B) The fastest growing provincial population in the country. I have no idea how you live, but both Edmonton and Calgary are twice the size they were only a few decades ago. That's fact not fiction. A person is an Albertan the day they arrive, and thus they require schools hospitals, roads and all that other good stuff.

THIS IS WHY OUR RATE OF SPENDING IS HIGHER THAN OTHER PROVINCES.

I have no problem at all with gov't looking for efficiencies, they absolutely should, but when they promise to leave front line workers alone in their election platform, they should honor their word. But let's be realists... they all lie like snakes.

Finally, I have no idea why certain people have to come on threads like this and be ignorant to others. It is as if some think that all union members are subhuman. I've got news for you. Most of us have no choice. If you are a nurse, firefighter, police officer provincial lab worker, or teacher, it is a condition of employment. You best think of that when you start typing insults. That behavior is what got political discussions shut down in the first place despite some of your conspiracy theories. Personally, I won't be messing around. If people are being ignorant asses their stay on AO will be short. Real short.

[Sledhead71]

Originally Posted by Talking moose

I work in the oil industry. I’d be more than happy to take a 15% wage loss just to keep my job and ease my mind. Be happy.
Heck from what I’m used of I’ve already learned to live with a 40% wage reduction in lost overtime and hours.
A 5% reduction in wages but the fact you know your job ain’t going anywhere is laughable compared to thousands of people with a real problem.

^^ My experience as well, my income has been cut in half.

[elkhunter11]

While I feel for the people that are taking rollbacks, some of their unions are giving money to political parties, and I was shocked to hear about some of the people they hired to speak at conferences. The members money should not be used for such nonsense. The members should not allow their money to be spent that way. And then there is UNIFOR, as well as other groups that opposed the pipeline, how do they expect people to support them, when they protest against projects that would provide employment for other people?

[huntsfurfish]

Man, misery really does love company!

If people would just look after their own issues right?

Would love to watch all of the ones eager to cut others jobs. For a week at work and see how busy they really are them selves. Bet 99 out of 100 of you guys are hypocrites.
What? Business owners next?

And no, no horse in this race.

[WhiteTailAB]

Originally Posted by sns2

Been to a few conferences over my time. Never seen a mountain. Lethbridge is as far as I made it. LOL. Damn, I must be in the wrong school.

I'm not even joking when I say this, going to school in the elk island public school district, our teachers definitely made it to banff.

[sns2]

Originally Posted by WhiteTailAB

I'm not even joking when I say this, going to school in the elk island public school district, our teachers definitely made it to banff.

I'm not in Elk Island Public Schools, though I'd love to live in Sherwood Park. Sigh.

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by bessiedog

Your wrong. Signed contract is signed contract. If you word is no good ... then what..?
That’s the point. They wanna roll back on the next one.... go for it. Just honor your word. Our contract is only till next fall anyways. Plenty o time to do damage control after that.

I have to agree. It's amazing how much pay back can occur when you have tens of thousands of unhappy people looking for ways to get back at their employer. I would imagine that there is going to be massive amounts of paid sick time with the associated overtime costs to cover those shifts. Over all not a very astute way of saving a few bucks. It's going to cost Kenney a lot of votes when people are getting their wages cut to offset tax cuts for business.

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by Scott h

I have to agree. It's amazing how much pay back can occur when you have tens of thousands of unhappy people looking for ways to get back at their employer. I would imagine that there is going to be massive amounts of paid sick time with the associated overtime costs to cover those shifts. Over all not a very astute way of saving a few bucks. It's going to cost Kenney a lot of votes when people are getting their wages cut to offset tax cuts for business.

Hence why the private sector is more efficient than the public. Where else would that be remotely acceptable? Banking sick time doesn't sit right with me.

Why not look at the wages cut as an offset to the income taxes paid for by the private sector who already has had their income reduced by much higher multiples?

[Talking moose]

Originally Posted by AndrewM

Hence why the private sector is more efficient than the public. Where else would that be remotely acceptable? Banking sick time doesn't sit right with me.

Why not look at the wages cut as an offset to the income taxes paid for by the private sector who already has had their income reduced by much higher multiples?

Banking sick days? Most places don’t even pay sick days let alone bank them up!

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by Talking moose

Banking sick days? Most places don’t even pay sick days let alone bank them up!

Exactly yet it is acceptable for the union employees. I would love to see a report on when sick days are taken.