Retriever “mistakes”

drake · #1 11-21-2019, 06:26 PM

“You will make mistakes with your first retriever”....

This sentence is in every retriever training book I have read. I am getting a puppy in the early summer and hope to avoid as many mistakes as possible.

Looking for examples from guys with experience about the training (or lack of) mistakes you have made and the long term impacts they had on your dog.

I’m planning to follow the Hillmann training approach. I’ve watched his puppy DVD and like his philosophy. His emphasis on a solid foundation of obedience before moving to far into retrieving drills is aligned with my goals.

Hoping to play the hunt test game eventually. Maybe some competitive obedience. I also want a well mannered dog around the house and solid gun dog
in the field. Is this to much to ask from a dog?

Reading and rereading as much retriever training literature as I can (Hillmann, Lardy, Lambfree, Dahl, Goodwin, Walters). I really like Goodwins training book....good mix of “old school” and “new school”.

Recommendations on other training books?....

Lastly, has anyone signed up for the “Cornerstone GunDog Academy” website. I like what Barton is doing with his kennel.

Pixel Shooter · #2 11-21-2019, 06:59 PM

Talk to your dad lol. He’s played this game more then once.

Happy to help bud. Did this a time or two

I have a 11 week out i just sold as a started dog so living the dream for next 7 months til she goes to her new home 😂. I just did this last year with my girl. Forgot how much work it is raising a retriever puppy

Should be a great fall next year. Congrats

Diesel_wiesel · #3 11-21-2019, 07:10 PM

if possible join two clubs
first obedience club.
second retriever club
stay in both
my hugest mistook is I'm a softy and not strict enough I slacked off on obedience to go forward in retriever hunt tests and hunting it came back to bite ne backside bigtime, and my second I skipped and missed important steps
if possible get a copy of Butch Goodwin's retrievers from the inside out
when training a retriever pup , you will soon find out the pup will teach exactly how much you don't know,
in the end its a humbling experience

MooseRiverTrapper · #4 11-21-2019, 07:14 PM

I was concerned early on introducing scent and feathers. They love birds. Can do that later on. (Pixel can attest too). Heavy on the obedience. But let them be a puppy and enjoy the puppy phase. Don’t expect to much from them. Later on in life only expect the best from them. It’s the most fun I’ve ever had. 200” whitey doesn’t compare.

Rackmastr · #5 11-21-2019, 08:12 PM

I have trained Hillmann on my new dog (1.5 years old now). I love the program and it has suited me well. One mistake I made was not work on "hold" early enough as my girl is a bit mouthy when she gets excited.

If you wanted to borrow any DVDs let me know or shoot me a PM.

Zekeland · #6 11-22-2019, 05:54 AM

1. You are the Alpha

2. Never enough obedience 6 months to 2 years, maintain a high standard.
You are laying the groundwork for the dogs entire life, on and off the field.

3. Evan Graham 'Smartworks' is a proven retriever program.

We are preparing for a new member of the family after xmas. Good time to start reviewing training program and puppy do's and dont's

Enjoy

jef612 · #7 11-22-2019, 07:58 AM

Never play tug-of-war with a retriever. Get them in the habit of enjoying the retrieve, not the battle after the retrieve. Simple little thing, but can make a big difference.

Our lab got a rope toy from the grandparents one year, and she got to a point where she only wanted to play with that toy, because she could tug and wrestle with you. I had to throw it out as she was entirely too focused on that portion of the retrieve, and started to ignore the important parts.

CroPhi · #8 11-28-2019, 06:58 PM

I'm no expert but here is what I think looking back. I followed Hillmanns original puppy dvd, I also added some fun stuff. I used some stuff from Mike Stewarts book to challenge him and build him a bit and so far I am glad I did. Moved to Danny Farmers basics program and Total Retriever Training V2 and articles will be under my tree. I think Bill Hillmann is a good dog trainer and a horrible people trainer and business man. I emailed him to ask if his program would work as well on a house dog who plays with kids and my wife as I does on a much more restricted field trial prospect who has every moment of his life controlled. I get a response saying he will talk to me via phone call for $250 USD per hour.....ok Bill...I'm trying to buy your program here.

The big mistakes I have made so far:
1. Repeating commands. NEVER give a command you can't enforce unless the dog is already doing it.
2. Thinking hes reliable and letting him off lead on walks and retrieves. He was reliable till 4 months then learned he did not need to bring me the bumper or come when I called him. I would have had much easier, faster training if I had just kept the line on him. Make it a habit for him to return to you after every retrieve, this takes months to be sure.
3. Demanding ANYTHING of him. He's such a smart, high drive pup I forgot he's actually a baby. Have fun and teach and play. Maybe pinch his cheek and tell him no when he does things hes not allowed to do. Keep it 99% positive
4. Not having an outdoor kennel when I brought him home. They need a safe controlled area to stretch out and build strength. My guy spent too much time in his crate.
5. Letting him run off lead with the wrong type of dog. Only let him play with dogs who are not crazy to play with other dogs. Its pretty tough to compete with a rowdy animal of his same species. He should view dogs as friendly but boring. Be selective when socializing with other dogs but make sure he is well socialized. How often do people say "my dog is great until there's another dog around...." avoid this. Controlled socializing with dogs you KNOW only. One bad experience and your pup can be ruined.
6. Not a biggie but I used influence from a bunch of different sources and philosophies (Hillmann, Farmer, Stewart, Mertens, Hickox, Ellis etc). I think this is both a positive and a negative. I have yet to see what issues I have caused that will need to be trained out later.

PICK THE RIGHT BREEDER AND LITTER. THE PRICE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN AN EXCEPTIONAL BREEDING AND A "PROBABLY GOOD ENOUGH" BREEDING IS NOTHING IN THE LONG RUN. Ask your breeder lots of questions. Don't accept anything but an exceptional pup. Be fussy. Get a rescue if you are ok with "ok". If its your first dog get a Lab. They are just genetically different and super forgiving and mentally resilient.

Things to remember:
1. He is your buddy.
2. Socialize socialize socialize
3. He is delicate. His hips are cartilage and his mind is infantile.
4. Pick a program and stick to it. Farmer, Lardy, Graham, Hillmann and probably Cornerstone are all good. Get Hillmanns or Jackie Mertens puppy dvd and FOLLOW it. This is a MUST
5. Moderate, safe exercise. Nothing intense and no force till he is 7 or 8 months, preferably a year old. Exercise and injury have caused more elbow and hip problems than your breeder has. No jumping from anything taller than he is (as a young pup)
6. He's a pup till hes 18 months
7. He is your buddy

thumper · #9 11-28-2019, 07:43 PM

Never let anyone 'ride' your dog. Not a sweet baby, not a cute girl, nobody - ever. I was (happily) estranged from my idiotic daughter-in-law because she repeatedly thought she'd look cute 'playing horsey' on the back of my pointer. Long after my son finally sent that drama-queen packing, my pup's back was still paying for it - as was I, - in vet bills. Back problems in later life significantly shortened his hunting career.

drake · #10 11-28-2019, 08:06 PM

Good info guys. Thanks a lot

sns2 · #11 11-29-2019, 11:21 AM

My first lab will be two in February. I have made lots of mistakes. Lots. But, I also put in a great deal of time with him. He's not perfect by any means, and has lots of room to grow, but I can tell you that by the end of this hunting season, the dog I have at this moment, is what I was hoping to have after 4 or 5 years. They are capable of a lot.

As to your question Drake, here is what I would say based on my experience with my boy...

1) Take it easy on your pup. They get big fast, and look like grownups, but they are still babies. Do not rush them. There is nothing to be gained at all by rushing, but lots to lose as you can screw them up by putting too much pressure on them. Likely the best decision I made with my pup was to not hunt him the first season I had him. This is not a race.

2) Choose one program and stick to it. Who cares what program. All the trainers that market training programs are absolute experts in their field, and frankly better than anyone you may find who'd advise you otherwise.

3) Join a club. You see farther when you stand on the shoulders of those who have gone before you.

4) Obedience classes are never a bad investment.

5) Be committed to training. You learned because you went to school 5 days a week. Not bad advice for you and your dog. When they are a puppy, keep it short, end on a positive note, and leave them wanting more. Don't overdo it. If you go into a kindergarten class, the teacher is changing the activity every 10 minutes or so. Puppies get bored just as easily.

6) HAVE FUN. Dogs are God's greatest gift to outdoorsmen. Enjoy them and be an owner they can enjoy too.

drake · #12 11-29-2019, 06:12 PM

Not going the pro trainer route. No interest in outsourcing my training. I have some good training mentors at my disposal.

I won’t be ready to come home until June. Won’t be introducing the dog to any hunting until 2021 and only if it is ready and only if the hunt type/difficulty aligns with his training up to that point.

It’s going to be a fun process.

sns2 · #13 11-29-2019, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drake

Not going the pro trainer route. No interest in outsourcing my training. I have some good training mentors at my disposal.

I won’t be ready to come home until June. Won’t be introducing the dog to any hunting until 2021 and only if it is ready and only if the hunt type/difficulty aligns with his training up to that point.

It’s going to be a fun process.

Are you hoping for a boy or a girl pup?

drake · #14 11-30-2019, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sns2

Are you hoping for a boy or a girl pup?

I want a male but a female would be fine too.

I am a planner by nature....I have a clear vision of the type of dog I want at home and in the field. My training plan, timeline and execution will be systematic. I have more time than most to dedicate to training. I’m in no rush and will go at the dogs pace. I’m leaning further towards a continental style training program (youtube brookstone or cornerstone) that doesn’t involve an ecollar. I understand it will take more time but I like the underlying philosophy. Nothing against ecollars I just want to try something different. I will have a plan A,B,C though.

270WIN · #15 11-30-2019, 04:33 PM

Some excellent advice on here. One thing that hasn't been mentioned, though, is the need to avoid creating a gun shy dog. Dogs are not born gun shy. Those that become gun shy are made that way by humans introducing them to gunfire without carefully and thoroughly desensitizing them first. All good training manuals have a section on how to do this.
Not all dogs need this but if you ignore this step in a dog's training you may not find out whether or not yours does until it is too late. The main thing to remember is that gun shyness is very easy to prevent if you do it properly but very difficult, and often impossible, to cure once it has become a problem.