Kenney, the Grinch who stole Christmas

[Dead Moose]

Our son had to head south to keep a good job as his company sold their Canadian assets due to our government uncertainty and the spineless response to the Eco-terrorists.If the environmentalists were full of their convictions they would take their protests to China, Russia and Saudi but they too have no guts.

[badger]

I don't pay much tax anymore because I lost my job 3 years ago in the downturn. What makes government workers so special that they are protected from losing their jobs in a major downturn? Talk about entitlement, seems like civil service workers expect a guaranteed job for life from the taxpayers.

[NinjaHunter]

I thought Albertans wanted Alberta to be out of debt.

Sorry to say it, but to get out of debt. The gov is going to have to do alot of budget cuts. If not, increase taxes on every single individuals on this province to maintain the current welfare. Not corporate tax, but individual tax.

And we all know Albertans are not a big fan of increase in individual taxes. So the gov can get out of debt by cutting spending.

Just love it when people show their short term interest. Love it. Can't wait for this province to go into massive debt again after the UCP booted out due to Albertans moaning and groaning about the solution to the Albertan made debt problem.

Hope selling your kids' future was worth it.

[fishnguy]

Originally Posted by NinjaHunter

increase taxes on every single individuals on this province to maintain the current welfare. Not corporate tax, but individual tax.

Or, as another strategy, give corporations even more tax breaks as some are letting people go and others leaving (yet some keeping the headquarters intact, because of the tax breaks), while increasing tax on individuals and minimizing the welfare at the same time.

Can someone tell me when was the last time Alberta had a non-conservative government prior to this NDP run?

Can someone also point me to a large enough corporation that runs debt free on their books?

[ccmckee]

Originally Posted by 6.5 shooter

Qr770 Says that the Alberta teachers ...have mysteriously found a bunch of money to keep their front line workers....Maybe AHS can do the same....???

It wasn't Alberta teachers , it was the Calgary School board after they were threatened with an audit! They applied to have some of their maintenance budget moved over to cover the the teachers. Might want to get the facts straight first!

[ruffy71]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I worked 35 years in the oil industry, and I saw the disappointment, and the uncertainty in the industry when the NDP was elected. The long delay before the royalty review and Notley being anti oil definitely made the oil companies feel insecure about any investment on Alberta.

I coulda swore that oil companies repeatedly patted Notley on the back for including them in her review panels, championing the pipeline, commending her for her decisions. They were lying? Why?

For me the math is pretty simple.

Oil at $110 = good. Oil at $50 = bad.

We needed to turf the conservatives out for at least one term. Notley did a decent job filling that role.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by ruffy71

I coulda swore that oil companies repeatedly patted Notley on the back for including them in her review panels, championing the pipeline, commending her for her decisions. They were lying? Why?

For me the math is pretty simple.

Oil at $110 = good. Oil at $50 = bad.

We needed to turf the conservatives out for at least one term. Notley did a decent job filling that role.

Certain companies may have tried the be friendly approach to Notley, hoping she would respond in kind, but all of the oil companies knew that she was anti oil, and had actively protested pipelines. Towards the end of her reign, she realized that her only chance was to pretend to support pipelines, so she did just that, but anyone with a clue saw right through that act.

[The Elkster]

Originally Posted by ccmckee

It wasn't Alberta teachers , it was the Calgary School board after they were threatened with an audit! They applied to have some of their maintenance budget moved over to cover the the teachers. Might want to get the facts straight first!

The CBE budget thing was pure politics on the CBE end. Funny how immediately after the cut announcement they so quickly came up with the layoff candidates and they were all front line teachers hmmmm. Like really that is the only fat to cut LOL? No admin/middle management/non/frontline workers could be let go to less affect the poor children? LOL this was about triggering people on the left to rampage against cuts by leveraging/sacrificing front line staff. Just dirty and not in the best interest of anyone with a vested interest in the system except those on the take. The gov't should have turned around and announced a job shadowing initiative for all non-frontline staff with an eye to lean operations as a condition of funding. That or dissolve the CBE and rehire staff under a revised structure with accountability measures being front and center. Can you imagine the howls!

[Map Maker]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

but anyone with a clue saw right through that act.

Really? Trying to get political thread shut down again.

Politicians can't fix anything.

All they can do is deregulate and then keep any even fair playing field so no one gets a monopoly.
Yeah, ndp are fundamentally against oil, but cons are swayed by lobbyists.
Both ideals are not progressive for all of alberta

[Dead Moose]

Originally Posted by fishnguy

Or, as another strategy, give corporations even more tax breaks as some are letting people go and others leaving (yet some keeping the headquarters intact, because of the tax breaks), while increasing tax on individuals and minimizing the welfare at the same time.

Can someone tell me when was the last time Alberta had a non-conservative government prior to this NDP run?

Can someone also point me to a large enough corporation that runs debt free on their books?

We. Have had non Conservative regimes——-for example Special Ed Stelmach meddling with a royalty review———Allison Dedford the human rights crusader and Prentise who was more “progressive” than conservative.

Debt is fine as long as it is being paid down in regular fashion vs a long term asset. But, operating losses are UNACCEPTABLE.

[ruffy71]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Certain companies may have tried the be friendly approach to Notley, hoping she would respond in kind, but all of the oil companies knew that she was anti oil, and had actively protested pipelines. Towards the end of her reign, she realized that her only chance was to pretend to support pipelines, so she did just that, but anyone with a clue saw right through that act.

Clueless eh?

And you are talking out of your arse now. You sat and had lunch with all these oil executives? You personally know their real thoughts? You truly understood all the interprovincial dynamics, federal dynamics, the international (especially US) oil maneuvering and pressures? International investment and oil pricing forecasts? All while we were negotiating a new NAFTA with a kooky president?

Congratulations. Elk hunter for premier!

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by ruffy71

Clueless eh?

And you are talking out of your arse now. You sat and had lunch with all these oil executives? You personally know their real thoughts? You truly understood all the interprovincial dynamics, federal dynamics, the international (especially US) oil maneuvering and pressures? International investment and oil pricing forecasts? All while we were negotiating a new NAFTA with a kooky president?

Congratulations. Elk hunter for premier!

How many meetings with oilsand company CEOs and VPs have you sat in on? I sat in on several during my 35 years in the industry, and good friends of mine are still attending these meetings. It's no secret that the companies will take whatever approach they think will get them what they want, whether it's dealing with the local first nations, or the government. Most people have no idea why the company that I worked for seeded grass, and brought in bison, and hired first nations people to care for them, they actually believe that it was about heritage and tradition.

[hal53]

Originally Posted by ruffy71

I coulda swore that oil companies repeatedly patted Notley on the back for including them in her review panels, championing the pipeline, commending her for her decisions. They were lying? Why?

For me the math is pretty simple.

Oil at $110 = good. Oil at $50 = bad.

We needed to turf the conservatives out for at least one term. Notley did a decent job filling that role.

What is the average lifting cost per barrel of WCS?

[Rhino81]

Originally Posted by morgan

Klein couldn’t help but look like a hero, oil was rolling a real estate was making money,
You coulda put anyone in that position and they woulda looked good.

[The Cook]

He is also messing with Senior's Blue Cross. I sent an e-mail to my MPP but that will probably be like barking up a dead dogs uhh you know.

[ruffy71]

I also have friends in the industry, but none that have sat in on meetings and know the minds of the multinationals, with masters that reside in foreign countries.

So... we have the many big multinational companies, that operate in a totally different world compared to most small and medium sized oil companies.

We have the first nations, other provincial governments, the federal government, the supreme court, rapid US deregulation and rapidly increased fracking, a pipeline sitting at the US border waiting for foot dragging to stop, (and why would the US stop dragging their feet exactly?).

A pipeline west that we convinced/pressured/tricked an NDP gov't to support. Rail cars that the NDP were too spineless to refuse to buy. A cap on production that some didn't like, but a lot of those big CEO's you have lunch with supported, and so did Kenney....

But all your friends still in the business are telling you it was all Notley, the whole time, it was Notley. She's the one. It was her all along. That conniving witch.

Do I want her back? No. But figuring a way out of this is going to take bit more than "Notley gave us the heebie jeebies"

[bobtodrick]

Originally Posted by morgan

Klein couldn’t help but look like a hero, oil was rolling a real estate was making money,
You coulda put anyone in that position and they woulda looked good.

Not really. Getty, through excessive spending had put Alberta 11 billion in debt when Klein took over.
In Getty's last years the oil money was starting to roll in and he still managed to overspend...something Klein knew couldn't continue.
Notley didn't even have oil money coming in and yet she still overspent and drove up the deficit. It will take Kenney longer because we don't have the oil (hopefully it will recover somewhat) but at least he understands that we can't keep driving up the debt and expect to ever recover the standard of living we are used to.

[fishtank]

Originally Posted by Dead Moose

Our son had to head south to keep a good job as his company sold their Canadian assets due to our government uncertainty and the spineless response to the Eco-terrorists.If the environmentalists were full of their convictions they would take their protests to China, Russia and Saudi but they too have no guts.

chevron looking to get out of the kitamat lng venture .. will take a $10 billion write down ..looks like its be canadian companys left holding the bag .

[jstubbs]

Originally Posted by fishtank

chevron looking to get out of the kitamat lng venture .. will take a $10 billion write down ..looks like its be canadian companys left holding the bag .

Try reading beyond the headline--they're writing down a $10 billion charge against all of their assets, more than half of that number coming from Appalachian gas plays, and they're reducing funding (and potentially selling) in their interest in their Kitimat project (most of which is expanding currently operating LNG assets), which pales in comparison to the $40b project LNG project in BC led by Shell and a group of the largest gas companies across Asia.

[bsmitty27]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I worked 35 years in the oil industry, and I saw the disappointment, and the uncertainty in the industry when the NDP was elected. The long delay before the royalty review and Notley being anti oil definitely made the oil companies feel insecure about any investment on Alberta.

I've said it before. The price of oil brings companies here. Hell people work in the most dangerous unstable, unpredictable parts of the world to if profit margins are good enough. But you can tell yourself that Notly was that scary. 50.00 a barrel is what's scary and that is what notley was given.

[JohninAB]

Originally Posted by bobtodrick

Not really. Getty, through excessive spending had put Alberta 11 billion in debt when Klein took over.
In Getty's last years the oil money was starting to roll in and he still managed to overspend...something Klein knew couldn't continue.
Notley didn't even have oil money coming in and yet she still overspent and drove up the deficit. It will take Kenney longer because we don't have the oil (hopefully it will recover somewhat) but at least he understands that we can't keep driving up the debt and expect to ever recover the standard of living we are used to.

It was natural gas royalties that made Klein look good. Those royalties dried up around 2009 or 10. Natural gas buttered Alberta’s bread back then, not oil!

[liar]

Originally Posted by morgan

Klein couldn’t help but look like a hero, oil was rolling a real estate was making money,
You coulda put anyone in that position and they woulda looked good.

the average price of oil through Klein's term was $23.80 per bbl . for the remainder of the pc rule after they squeezed Klein into retirement the average is $72.7 per bbl . when Klein left office our dept was $0 . when the ndp took over the dept was about $12 billion .
can you explain what you mean when you say "Klein couldn’t help but look like a hero"?

[bobtodrick]

Originally Posted by JohninAB

It was natural gas royalties that made Klein look good. Those royalties dried up around 2009 or 10. Natural gas buttered Alberta’s bread back then, not oil!

The point is that Klein understood that being billions of dollars in debt does not lead to long term viability. Doesn't matter whether we made money on oil or natural gas...debt is bad.
I'm pretty sure that if we were swimming in petro dollars (of whatever kind) the NDP would still have got us in debt...we'd just have a lot more social program/provincial paid LRT and stuff like that.

[rena0040]

If you have kids with the cbe you'll know it wasn't a political move, scam etc etc. They're reinstated bussing fees of more than $300 a kid per year. A fee that was dropped by the ndp and now back.
That's where they "found" the money.

[slough shark]

The problem with the CBE has to do with all the extra staff they have. When they were planning on laying off 330 teachers it didn’t mean that the students were going to be split up and sent into other classes other teachers who weren’t in the classroom were going to take their place other instead of playing a “support role” in a non classroom capacity. The CBE has been mismanaged entity for quite some time and I honestly don’t think anyone has a great way of streamlining it. There are a lot of different factors and agreements that tie the hands of anyone who tries to fix it and there would be pushback every step of the way.

[ctd]

Its funny because $50 a barrell is actually a good price. Everyone directly involved makes money. Others not directly invovled dont.

In 2009-2010 when oil dumped then went back up. The largest investments were made. We were booming. What happened? Oil went to $100 and everyone got dreedy. Especially the government at the time. They planed their budget for that 100-130 mark based on speculation.

The specualtors and investors are the ones wrecking the industry as they are being greedy.

Then you have a provincial and federal government who messed up the entire industry. But told us they supported it. When on the other side were rallying agaisnt it.

[Smoky buck]

Alberta’s economy has been slow for quite a while with the province racking up debt hoping things would turn around and We have had a anti energy idiot running Canada into the ground.

I really would not want to be in Kenny’s shoes an up hill battle with a PM trying to turn things around and a lack of $ coming in to run the province. Of course he is going to be stuck making choices that will **** people off under these conditions

Pretty sure like the rest of Alberta he was betting on Cons wining the federal election and now his original plans are a mess with a liberal minority

[Flatlandliver]

Originally Posted by bobtodrick

The point is that Klein understood that being billions of dollars in debt does not lead to long term viability. Doesn't matter whether we made money on oil or natural gas...debt is bad.
I'm pretty sure that if we were swimming in petro dollars (of whatever kind) the NDP would still have got us in debt...we'd just have a lot more social program/provincial paid LRT and stuff like that.

Klein’s policies in the ’90s did permanent damage to our public services, hurt the economic recovery, made us more dependent on volatile oil prices, gutted government revenues, created an infrastructure deficit we’re still working to recover from, and left Albertans with next to nothing to show for our natural resource wealth. In other words, it is those policies that directly led to the economic and financial issues our province is grappling with today.

[hal53]

Originally Posted by Flatlandliver

Klein’s policies in the ’90s did permanent damage to our public services, hurt the economic recovery, made us more dependent on volatile oil prices, gutted government revenues, created an infrastructure deficit we’re still working to recover from, and left Albertans with next to nothing to show for our natural resource wealth. In other words, it is those policies that directly led to the economic and financial issues our province is grappling with today.

WOW!!!!!!

[JB_AOL]

Originally Posted by hal53

WOW!!!!!!

One look at his username explains it all... Flatearther...