All around big game rifle cartridges

[Don_Parsons]

Dam,,, another challange, I didn't even get time to do the last one before this one is getting underway.

Guess I'll have to hang out with the 94.36% of the folks like me that are challenged I guess.

Ho Hummmmm. Life is lonely at the bottom. LOL

Don

[shooter12]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

So what are you shooting for a big game rifle?

I am big fan of wsm cases .
I have 270wsm, 300wsm and 325 wsm. Also I have many other calibers that mostly are used for range shooting and occasionally for hunting .
270wsm probably the best what could be made ,in my personal opinion of course,
for WT, BB and mule deer. With careful bullet selection its very capable of bringing elk and moose down as well, but not as good if extended range shot is required as my favorite 300wsm with a heavy for a caliber bullet with high BC .

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by shooter12

I am big fan of wsm cases .
I have 270wsm, 300wsm and 325 wsm. Also I have many other calibers that mostly are used for range shooting and occasionally for hunting .
270wsm probably the best what could be made ,in my personal opinion of course,
for WT, BB and mule deer. With careful bullet selection its very capable of bringing elk and moose down as well, but not as good if extended range shot is required as my favorite 300wsm with a heavy for a caliber bullet with high BC .

So which bullets are you loading for extended ranges?

[graybeard]

I am not qualified to say what is the best all-round cartridge. But, though my observations, the easiest way to determine the more popular cartridge is to stop in and look at the small town hardware store, anywhere in the province, and see what is on the shelf.

You will still see the 308, 30-06, 30-30, 270, 243 and maybe 300 or the 7mm in the magnums.

Just sayin...oops I forgot the 30-30....

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by graybeard

I am not qualified to say what is the best all-round cartridge. But, though my observations, the easiest way to determine the more popular cartridge is to stop in and look at the small town hardware store, anywhere in the province, and see what is on the shelf.

You will still see the 308, 30-06, 270, 243 and maybe 300 or the 7mm in the magnums.

Just sayin...

That is an indication of popularity, but popularity isn't always an indication of which cartridge will do the best job for a given hunter. Many of those small town hardware stores also stock 30-30 ammunition, just because so many rifles were sold long ago.

[Don_Parsons]

To me, and me only since I can't say what works for others is.

A Big Game cartrage is something that can tackle the job effectively and efficiently.
I'll guess that The big game category is Deer, Elk, Moose,,, purhaps Bears, Buffalo, Bison fit into this too.
Of course those critters would fall under the dangerous big game category. Again,,, just putting it out there from what I see and feel of course.

I find it practical to find a rifle, cartrage, and optics to cover all my bases since I'm not 100% sure what category I'll end up in.

Purhaps it's the 10, 10 thing split 10 X's of the 100 to equal most shooting actives.
Example might be :
General all round plinking, iron silhouettes, target practic, long range shooting, tactical PRS trials, competition shooting, big game Harvesting, dangerous game in its category, and other shooting sports that come along. This is not saying that the big game rifle and cartrage can't be used for predator control.

Another example might be:
The 50/50 use, 70/30, or split evenly at a 1/3 each if one chooses to look at it this way. Maybe the hunting rig is just for 1 thing.

I my self class it as the all since this is the direction I'm heading for.

Another thing that comes to mind is the terrain one is Harvesting in, if I was hunting the open prairie lands, or thick wood-lots only, then I'd sellect a cartrage and rifle specific to that task. Or looking at it in the idea of not knowing where I'd harvest, then I'd choose the middle grounds.

The next area I would focus on is the critters to be harvested.
If I was Harvesting Deer only, then I'd buy the rifle closest to that category, not much sense having a Canon for this, if it is dangerous big game only, I'd find something larger than the Deer rifle & cartrage.
Lots of variables to choose from.

Next might be underlying factors:
Would we ever be interested in any of the shooting sports stuff, or not at all.
The cost of ammo, how much would we shot per year or a longer time frame in years or decades.

How many firearms does one choose to own, 1 caliber or many.

One thing I know, I have a rifle & cartrage that covers all my bases for what I need it to do, then I added one more for good measures as a backup.
Of course it is for shooting sports.
My main main rifle will hopefully cover these categories in the years to come. This is my take for now.

No one thing is going to work for all of us since there are lots of ways, ideas, things, and factors that add into what each of us want.

We can only hope that we get it right with the planning, there is no 100% written rule that says it has to be done this way. There are endless variables in everything we do.
Getting it as close as we can to fit our needs only improves the out-look over all.

Some of us have had alot of everything, other might of had 1 or 2 things on the go. What ever it is, it might be working. We hope it is.

Don

[shooter12]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

So which bullets are you loading for extended ranges?

I like 200 gr Sierras a lot for 300 wsm for everything from 0 to 600yds.
Tried many different bullets in 270 wsm Accubonds , Sierras 140 gr and 150 gr , SSTs, Bergers150gr (like that one for longer ranges), but now settled on 140 or 130gr Barnes tsx for everything .
In a heavy bushes had very good luck with 160 gr Nosler Partition for moose and elk.

[McTrigger]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

Why? Because the vast majority of animals are shot well within 200 yards no matter what the internet experts say .
Cat

Exactly!

[shooter12]

Originally Posted by McTrigger

Exactly!

Then it will be not a bad idea to find out "What was the longest shot on an animal Cat did"

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

That is an indication of popularity, but popularity isn't always an indication of which cartridge will do the best job for a given hunter. Many of those small town hardware stores also stock 30-30 ammunition, just because so many rifles were sold long ago.

But you gotta admit since most game animals are taken 100 yard ish the 30-30 would be suffice and is very popular hence why the stores all carry the cartridges.
That lever rifle is a great second, back up, camp, truck, quad, sled throw across your back go for a hike rifle...

[kouleerunner]

Originally Posted by Slicktricker

My next rifle will be in 7mm08 shooting 140 or 308 shooting 165 still undecided but have 2 weeks to make up my mind

Get Both

[JD848]

Originally Posted by shooter12

I am big fan of wsm cases .
I have 270wsm, 300wsm and 325 wsm. Also I have many other calibers that mostly are used for range shooting and occasionally for hunting .
270wsm probably the best what could be made ,in my personal opinion of course,
for WT, BB and mule deer. With careful bullet selection its very capable of bringing elk and moose down as well, but not as good if extended range shot is required as my favorite 300wsm with a heavy for a caliber bullet with high BC .

The 270 wsm is something I gave good go,but the bc and sd just isn't there,the 300 wsm short mag is all right,but because of the lighter guns being made in that cartridge I find recoil a bit much,my sauer in 300 win being a well built rifle is very decent with recoil and hucks 178 or 212 eldx very accurately way out.

The one that still many guys shoot is t he 7mm wsm,higher bc bullets ,25 percent less recoil depending on rifle choice in 300wsm or 7mm rem mag and will flatten anything out to 600+ yrds.150 lrab at 3200fps,162 eldx 3040 fps so the 7mmwsm is my all round favorite.

You don't need a magnum because most cartridges will drop anything 400yrds and under,infact most shots are75 yards to180 yards for most hunters,in thick bush nothing is more than 150yards so a good light 30 30 with iron sights for fast shooting is the way to go 160 grn still hitting around 1700 pounds of energy at 160 yards,bsides that in heavy bush 50 to 100 yards.

Some guys like one thing and some like others,but the best gun is the one you shoo t well 243 to 300 rum,just depends on the guy.

[shooter12]

Originally Posted by JD848

The 270 wsm is something I gave good go,but the bc and sd just isn't there,the 300 wsm short mag is all right,but because of the lighter guns being made in that cartridge I find recoil a bit much,my sauer in 300 win being a well built rifle is very decent with recoil and hucks 178 or 212 eldx very accurately way out.

The one that still many guys shoot is t he 7mm wsm,higher bc bullets ,25 percent less recoil depending on rifle choice in 300wsm or 7mm rem mag and will flatten anything out to 600+ yrds.150 lrab at 3200fps,162 eldx 3040 fps so the 7mmwsm is my all round favorite.

You don't need a magnum because most cartridges will drop anything 400yrds and under,infact most shots are75 yards to180 yards for most hunters,in thick bush nothing is more than 150yards so a good light 30 30 with iron sights for fast shooting is the way to go 160 grn still hitting around 1700 pounds of energy at 160 yards,bsides that in heavy bush 50 to 100 yards.

Some guys like one thing and some like others,but the best gun is the one you shoo t well 243 to 300 rum,just depends on the guy.

You might be right about 7wsm or another 7mm family cartridge as probably the best all around .
I don't have one only because when heading for a deer my first pick is 270 wsm , and when after moose or elk usually take 300wsm.
7mm bullets with high BC will take those animals nicely for sure.

I might a bit disagree here about using 30-30, because even most of the animals are taken within 200 yds ,I personally would not like to limit myself to this range as probably 20% -25% or more animals are taken much father then that ,and limiting yourself to the short range I would not do that myself.

[270person]

Originally Posted by JD848

The one that still many guys shoot is t he 7mm wsm,higher bc bullets ,25 percent less recoil depending on rifle choice in 300wsm or 7mm rem mag and will flatten anything out to 600+ yrds.150 lrab at 3200fps,162 eldx 3040 fps so the 7mmwsm is my all round favorite.

You're thinking the 7wsm recoils less than a 7mm RM and gives a big advantage with 160-162 gr bullets? I'd respectfully disagree but to each his own.

Of the 7's I'd say the biggest advantages are in the 7stw camp if recoil is ignored.

If factory ammunition availability comes into play then theres really only one 7 to own.

[elkhunter11]

The 7mmwsm and 7mmremmag produce similar ballistics and recoil in similar rifles. There may be slight differences, but nothing significant; despite what Winchester would have us believe.

[Dick284]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

The 7mmwsm and 7mmremmag produce similar ballistics and recoil in similar rifles. There may be slight differences, but nothing significant; despite what Winchester would have us believe.

10-4, same stock, same weight, same weight of bullets, at the same velocity, will produce the same amount of recoil + or - a little bit due to the difference in the powder charge weight(negligible) physics and its laws don't change.

We should devise a better means of sorting fly feces from black pepper.

[catnthehat]

Any real life difference in recoil between the shortmag cartridges and their belted alternatives is in the mind of the shooter and advertising departments of the ammunition companies .
Cat

[Okotokian]

The "winners" are not surprising given the criteria. A number of the criteria are based on popularity and availability, so of course the most popular and available rounds will, by definition, come out on top.

I was swayed by the ammo availability argument when I started and it factored into my decisions to buy a .270 and a .30-06. But to be honest I've never had to buy ammo at Walmart or some small town hardware store. That said, those four rounds in marked in yellow are good calibers and have done all I've ever needed. I've wondered whether I needed the recoil of the .30-06. Caliber I've thought about replacing it with? .308. LOL Old school me.

[Pathfinder76]

Wasn’t there a forum dedicated to short mags when they first came out helping to perpetuate such nonsense?

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by chuck

Wasn’t there a forum dedicated to short mags when they first came out helping to perpetuate such nonsense?

The firearms industry needs you to stop using your current rifle and buy a new one!

[Dick284]

Originally Posted by chuck

Wasn’t there a forum dedicated to short mags when they first came out helping to perpetuate such nonsense?

The Shortmags Forum perpetuated nothing. It was a forum where sharing of the new WSM, WSSM, RSAUM cartridges, successes and failures were discussed. Lots of discussions around debunking marketing myths BTW.

The forum was run by a gentleman with a strict set of rules, and decorum, there was little latitude for discussion about non firearms topics, and he frowned upon nonnsensical discussion about foolish behaviour, or other lunacy. These strict rules and guidelines accelerated the forums demise.

FWIW I moderated in that forum in its twilight.

[CNP]

Originally Posted by Dick284

The Shortmags Forum perpetuated nothing. It was a forum where sharing of the new WSM, WSSM, RSAUM cartridges, successes and failures were discussed. Lots of discussions around debunking marketing myths BTW.

The forum was run by a gentleman with a strict set of rules, and decorum, there was little latitude for discussion about non firearms topics, and he frowned upon nonnsensical discussion about foolish behaviour, or other lunacy. These strict rules and guidelines accelerated the forums demise.

FWIW I moderated in that forum in its twilight.

Interesting that the forums demise is attributed to strict rules governing content. I would rather think that the forums very shallow subject matter had something to do with it. Keeping out nonsense and foolish behaviour is always a plus......................and it's welcome on this forum is it not?

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by CNP

Interesting that the forums demise is attributed to strict rules governing content. I would rather think that the forums very shallow subject matter had something to do with it. Keeping out nonsense and foolish behaviour is always a plus......................and it's welcome on this forum is it not?

I remember when the owner closed down the forum, he stated that everything that needed to be researched and said about the Shortmag had basically been covered so there was no point in keeping it going.
I enjoyed that site even though I did have some differences of opinion with the own at times.
For a Shortmag owner it was great, covering everything from the shell holder issues to the barrel pin issues in the hopped up TC rifles, to brass to powders and bullets, wildcats , everything.
Cat

[gitrdun]

Originally Posted by Dick284

10-4, same stock, same weight, same weight of bullets, at the same velocity, will produce the same amount of recoil + or - a little bit due to the difference in the powder charge weight(negligible) physics and its laws don't change.

We should devise a better means of sorting fly feces from black pepper.

True enough. You stole the words outta my mouth.

[shooter12]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

The 7mmwsm and 7mmremmag produce similar ballistics and recoil in similar rifles. There may be slight differences, but nothing significant; despite what Winchester would have us believe.

I can not say about 7mmwsm versus 7mmremmag because I don't have neither.
But I have both 300wsm and 300wm.
It takes 62.5 gr of IMR 4350 to push 200 gr bullet out of wsm case to 2850 f.s .
This load is in a Nosler reloading manual.
And it takes 69 gr of the same powder to push exactly the same weight bullet to the same velocity out of 300 WM case.
To me, that difference is significant enough to choose 300 wsm over300wm.

[catnthehat]

With its larger case capacity the 300 Win mag will push a 200 grain bullet faster than the WSM case will - all one has to do is change the powder.
That is , of course, if a person wants to squeeze a few extra FPS out of something to make themselves think that will make a difference.
Cat

[shooter12]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

With its larger case capacity the 300 Win mag will push a 200 grain bullet faster than the WSM case will - all one has to do is change the powder.
That is , of course, if a person wants to squeeze a few extra FPS out of something to make themselves think that will make a difference.
Cat

Sure , we can change the powders.
I could also push 200 gr out of 300wsm at almost 3000 f.s with rl19 without any pressure sighs and okay accuracy.
But to me it seems that wsm case is more efficient then regular wm case if it burns less powder to get the same velosity

[catnthehat]

deleted

[JD848]

I never compared cartridge to cartridge like 7mm rem mag or 7mm wsm in same make of rifle and weight and ballistics.I mentioned lighter new rifles being made which give more recoil and depending on rifle choice in 7mm wsm or some hunk of plastic in 7mm rem mag or 300wsm there is a big recoil difference.There's a big difference in what rifle you use when comparing recoil in two close cartridges or the same cartridge.

A sako 75 synthetic stainless in 7mm rem mag has less recoil than the 85 barvarian even though the 85 is heavier and shooting the same cartridge and bullet with equal amounts of same powder and same ballistics, I have both and I know for sure on that one.

Plus I would pic the 7mm wsm over the 270 wsm because of the bc in the bullet choice.7mm wsm and 7mm rem mag have the same ballistics,both are neck in neck.Shot a well made custom 7mm rem mag and a 7mm rem mag in a tikka t3 lite and you will feel the difference in recoil.

Not saying any of these are the best all around cartridge. Most cartridges in 6.5 or .284 are fine choices.If you can't find ammo than stock up and canpar will bring it right to the door buy the case is even better,lotsa little towns carry nothing.There is little reason to look for factory ammo or components to reload in this day and age. The 30 30 does well in heavy timber .