Evolution vs Creation

[Trochu]

Originally Posted by fitzy

I think it's easier to believe in evolutionary changes over millions of years than it is to believe there is a magic man in the sky that pointed his finger and poof. There was the earth.

I have some pretty firmly held beliefs about religion so I think from this point forward I'll watch until this one gets locked.

I don't know, maybe. I think of a box containing a disassembled Rolex, shaking it for a billion years, and opening the box and finding an assembled, working Rolex, similar to evolutionary belief. Doubt it would happen. Even if it did, doesn't explain were the pieces came from in the first place. The other issued being the human body is exponentially more complex than a Rolex and scores of others I'm not getting into.

[silverdoctor]

Originally Posted by Big Thumper

Through natural selection, the formation of new, distinct species takes thousands upon thousands of years, so, you will not see it 'today' but if you stick around for a few hundred thousand years and you will see new species.

So where does that leave humans? Survival of the fittest and natural selection doesn't really apply to us. We nurture and protect the weak.

[fitzy]

Originally Posted by raab

So no one can explain to me why were not seeing more species being formed today and in fact seeing extinction? Macro evolution is a theory from the 1800's that IMO has all but been debunked as they have nothing in the fossil record that shows one species changing to another one, and we dont see it happening today.

Check back in a million years and see how things are progressing.

They discover new species all the time. Not due to evolution though, a big part is we have only explored 5% of the oceans.

[rugatika]

Originally Posted by 6.5swedeforelk

Any chance that it's an underlying but deep-seated doubt?
If us Christians are wrong, so we've been scoffed... meh.

But what if you're wrong?

Let's say I'm wrong. Do people who uphold Christian values (save for their belief in Christianity ) go to hell? Just because they don't worship God? Doesn't sound very God-like to me.

If there is a God, and he's a perfect being (not narcissistic, vain etc), I have a feeling he would forgive me for not worshipping him, and living a "good" life instead (or at least trying my best).

At any rate, to believe in God you need to have faith, and I'm more of a fact based guy. If you got faith, then all the power to you and with all sincerity, I hope it all works out for you, I certainly would never wish ill on anyone for following their beliefs in a religion that promotes good will to their fellow man (which I believe Christianity does...and other religions as well ).

[Big Thumper]

Originally Posted by silverdoctor

So where does that leave humans? Survival of the fittest and natural selection doesn't really apply to us. We nurture and protect the weak.

Some truth to that over the last few hundred, maybe couple thousand of years even. However, human evolution is the product of hundreds of millions of years or evolution. Also, there is only so much 'we' can do (called artificial selection, BTW)when it comes to this. If a person is born with a genetic mutation that keeps them from living/reproducing, often nothing that can be done by 'us'.
Interesting side fact is that we all have genetic mutations, genes we did not get from either parent. Each of us has a small handful of these and most are relatively insignificant.

[wildwoods]

To answer the original post: why are the two separated? I'm a creationist but why is that limited to a snap of the fingers? I believe the earth can be billions of years old. Evolution, Big Bang etc are all things God could have used to get this place started. I don't know why on Earth they have to be a separate argument. If you think the earth is 6000 years old you need to go back and read Gensis 1: 1 and 2 again.
To those who don't believe in creation, that's fine I'm not here to argue. Simply to state my belief. I respect your opinion, you respect mine.

[BuckCuller]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

We are all part of the mix, family priorities are always first but like I said we are all part of the mix and that being said we should always be concerned.

Like I said earlier, a good watch for the entire family, the movie year one, it's on Netflix....

If the question was phrased ideology and not religion I would have a different response.

[silverdoctor]

Originally Posted by Big Thumper

Some truth to that over the last few hundred, maybe couple thousand of years even. However, human evolution is the product of hundreds of millions of years or evolution. Also, there is only so much 'we' can do (called artificial selection, BTW)when it comes to this. If a person is born with a genetic mutation that keeps them from living/reproducing, often nothing that can be done by 'us'.
Interesting side fact is that we all have genetic mutations, genes we did not get from either parent. Each of us has a small handful of these and most are relatively insignificant.

Now you're onto something. But what caused us to evolve?

[Let me put my flamsuit on here]

The most profound theory so far is the virus. The idea that viruses invade our bodies, inject themselves into our cells, and change our DNA. If the host survives, and the virus gets into the sperm or egg and creates another human with the virally changed DNA.

[TBD]

hilarious !

some suggested reading for those with an open mind.

https://books.google.ca/books/about/...er&redir_esc=y


TBD


PS .. this book stands entrenched academic historic belief -- on its head !

[Big Thumper]

Originally Posted by wildwoods

To answer the original post: why are the two separated? I'm a creationist but why is that limited to a snap of the fingers? I believe the earth can be billions of years old. Evolution, Big Bang etc are all things God could have used to get this place started. I don't know why on Earth they have to be a separate argument. If you think the earth is 6000 years old you need to go back and read Gensis 1: 1 and 2 again.
To those who don't believe in creation, that's fine I'm not here to argue. Simply to state my belief. I respect your opinion, you respect mine.

I'm not sure why the two have to be mutually exclusive either. I'd like to believe that science is just beginning to discover the 'tools' that were used in creating what we see today.

[badger]

This is the stupidest thread ever. I am a Pastafarian and nobody can prove me wrong!!!! FSM Rules All.

[ROA]

I find it interesting that some of the greatest minds in physics are now starting to believe in a creator, perhaps not "god" in the traditional sense but some thing/someone/some power that organized the potential chaos in the universe into the unlikely universe we live in.

[Big Thumper]

Originally Posted by silverdoctor

Now you're onto something. But what caused us to evolve?


The most profound theory so far is the virus. The idea that viruses invade our bodies, inject themselves into our cells, and change our DNA. If the host survives, and the virus gets into the sperm or egg and creates another human with the virally changed DNA.

Two different topics here, really. What causes evolution is selective pressures which can change over time as the environment and other things change around a species. Your second statement is really more about how the mutations that are needed for evolution and change to occur. There are many types and causes of genetic mutations, many of which one might have even studied in HS.

[silverdoctor]

Originally Posted by wildwoods

To answer the original post: why are the two separated? I'm a creationist but why is that limited to a snap of the fingers? I believe the earth can be billions of years old. Evolution, Big Bang etc are all things God could have used to get this place started. I don't know why on Earth they have to be a separate argument. If you think the earth is 6000 years old you need to go back and read Gensis 1: 1 and 2 again.
To those who don't believe in creation, that's fine I'm not here to argue. Simply to state my belief. I respect your opinion, you respect mine.

And this is where people lose me - this is where I don't understand faith.

Do you think the people that wrote the bible thousands of years ago had any understanding of what the world was? When they looked up at the sky, how did they explain the stars? The moon? The sun?

They believed that the earth was the center of the universe - but that's been proven incorrect. Science has always suspected - theoretically and mathematically that every galaxy has a black hole in it's center. That has been proven true, telescopes today can see through all the dust and peer into the center of our own galaxy.

But yet, as science makes major jumps - Christians claim that God must have created that. How did we go from the earth being the center of everything - to God created everything?

How is belief in God and the bible able to evolve with science?

[Sooner]

One day, everyone of us will know the answer to the question. We will either see our loved ones again or not.

I only go to church for weddings and funerals. Even though I was raised going to a Lutheran church, I walked from the idea of going to a building with a pointy roof to believe in something in my mid teens. Since then, my church is a cut line, a bike ride or a road trip for work where I can be by myself and my thoughts. This belief in something was not brain washed into me by zealous Pastors and parents. My mind is open to a lot of stuff and there is no question the Dino's and other fossils found contradicts religious timelines. And I can't truly explain why I believe. It's just there. So, I like to think we will see each other again. If that belief helps me close my eyes for the last time or mourn the loss of someone special by just a bit, nothing wrong with that Imo. If I do and you don't, I'm ok with that.


We don't have to or about it. If we don't agree, it would not mean we can't be friends.


Until the day comes to meet your maker as they say, the debate will never be won, kinda like coke vs pepsi.

[Trochu]

Originally Posted by rugatika

Let's say I'm wrong. Do people who uphold Christian values (save for their belief in Christianity ) go to hell? Just because they don't worship God? Doesn't sound very God-like to me.

If there is a God, and he's a perfect being (not narcissistic, vain etc), I have a feeling he would forgive me for not worshipping him, and living a "good" life instead (or at least trying my best).

At any rate, to believe in God you need to have faith, and I'm more of a fact based guy. If you got faith, then all the power to you and with all sincerity, I hope it all works out for you, I certainly would never wish ill on anyone for following their beliefs in a religion that promotes good will to their fellow man (which I believe Christianity does...and other religions as well ).

If you study really, hard, show up for class, and write pages of calculations for the math final, but they all happen to be wrong, should you receive a passing grade? I'm a fact based guy as well, but throughout my life things have happened that really shouldn't have, let along the evidence provided in nature.

[Trochu]

Originally Posted by Sooner

.....never be won, kinda like coke vs pepsi.

That is an easy one!

[Newview01]

Third page, no lock, I'm pleasantly surprised.

Carry on.

Lots of YouTube resources on this, by people with more education than years I've been alive, more so than a Google search. Watch the video markg posted - at the very least it will make one think a little harder.

[silverdoctor]

Originally Posted by Newview01

Watch the video markg posted - at the very least it will make one think a little harder.

Just finished that one actually. Pretty easy to tear apart a book that was published 158 years ago. There is so much that Darwin didn't know. He didn't have teams of people worldwide digging for fossils, didn't have teams of cleaners. He did a good job working with what he had.

What Darwin didn't know will fill libraries.

[tri777]

Originally Posted by silverdoctor

"..They believed that the earth was the center of the universe - but that's been proven incorrect..
How did we go from the earth being the center of everything - to God created everything?

And yet...Isaiah 40:22..
"It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers,
Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.."

[wildwoods]

Originally Posted by silverdoctor

And this is where people lose me - this is where I don't understand faith.

Do you think the people that wrote the bible thousands of years ago had any understanding of what the world was? When they looked up at the sky, how did they explain the stars? The moon? The sun?

They believed that the earth was the center of the universe - but that's been proven incorrect. Science has always suspected - theoretically and mathematically that every galaxy has a black hole in it's center. That has been proven true, telescopes today can see through all the dust and peer into the center of our own galaxy.

But yet, as science makes major jumps - Christians claim that God must have created that. How did we go from the earth being the center of everything - to God created everything?

How is belief in God and the bible able to evolve with science?

Well I'm not going to change your mind, but give you a perspective. If you follow Biblical beliefs, there was an entire civilization (with the exception of 8 people) who were wiped out due to their unbelief and wicked lifestyles. Again, you may dispute that-I'm not here to convince you. In Genesis-pre flood, some men were instructed to survey the entire earth. They accomplished that using incredible scientific technology. Another prime example of their intelligence was the building of the pyramids in Egypt. The Great Pyramid actually parallels the Bible 100% and is undeniably the work of highly intelligent, inspired men. So yes, I believe that generation was in some ways smarter than us today and had things figured out. This is all from the Bible and I'm sure there are quite a few more examples. The Zodiak also spells out the entire Bible from start to finish. I can't explain everything. If I could, faith would be null and void by very definition. I don't buy in to things easily. God has vindicated Himself to me personally and that is simply something you can write an essay about or explain to a doubting audience. I respect the fact that there are these questions and do not fault people for their choice to disbelieve in God. That's your choice and I in no way will throw around any condemnation. If I felt somehow superior to unbelievers I wouldn't spend time hanging around here. We're all people with different paradigms and those perspectives should all be respected, regardless of belief. Balance.

Heading to my kids ball tourney now. Have a good day

[silverdoctor]

Originally Posted by tri777

And yet...Isaiah 40:22..
"It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers,
Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.."

Ok. Define heaven for me?

[wildwoods]

Originally Posted by badger

This is the stupidest thread ever. I am a Pastafarian and nobody can prove me wrong!!!! FSM Rules All.

Hahaha thats rich. The meat sauce that is

[Selkirk]

.

Looking at this thread's poll results, it's disturbing to see the number of creationists who lurk here.

I thought this was Western Canada ... not backwoods Alabama!

Sad

Selkirk

[Newellknik]

94 to 35 but 3 pages is impressive ....no one has thrown out
any Hitchenisms .
As most , my knowledge on evolution and natural selection is
suspect but I absolutely know everything I need to know about
Religion . Poisoned and killed more humans than all the plagues
And natural disasters put together , since the beginning of recorded
time .
When you start quoting the book of fairytales as if they were fact
that's a derail .

[Big Thumper]

Originally Posted by tri777

And yet...Isaiah 40:22..
"It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers,
Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.."

My understanding is that the bible has been translated many times from the original Hebrew. Maybe the next time it is 'updated' they can change this from 'circle' to sphere.

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by Selkirk

.

Looking at this thread's poll results, it's disturbing to see the number of creationists who lurk here.

I thought this was Western Canada ... not backwoods Alabama!

Sad

Selkirk

Thanks for your deep insight.

Do you have any evidence you'd like to share that supports your belief in evolution?

[silverdoctor]

Ok. I'm outta here.

[Trochu]

Originally Posted by Newellknik

......Poisoned and killed more humans than all the plagues And natural disasters put together, since the beginning of recorded time........

I suspect you're trying to make your point by stating your opinion as fact? Also, if something is bad as it causes death, just thought I'd let you know, approximately 1.25M die annually due to car accidents. So, if religion is bad because it causes deaths, you've given it up, are you going to give up driving, as it clearly causes deaths as well?

If you think the Bible is a fairly tale, that's fine, but maybe post something a bit more concrete and insightful than religion has "Poisoned and killed more humans than all the plagues and natural disasters put together". Even if true, whats the point of it? Alcohol, cigarettes, McDonald, automobiles, etc. likely have as well, directly or indirectly. A fairy tale, when was the last time people killed each other over Beauty and the Beast, Sword and the Stone, Frozen, etc., pretty sure there is a bit more there than a "fairy tale".

[pikergolf]

Originally Posted by ROA

I find it interesting that some of the greatest minds in physics are now starting to believe in a creator, perhaps not "god" in the traditional sense but some thing/someone/some power that organized the potential chaos in the universe into the unlikely universe we live in.

I don't know how a person can look at the awe inspiring world we live in and believe it came about by random chance. That takes way more faith than believing in a creator.