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  #91  
Old 03-28-2014, 01:53 AM
Big Daddy Badger Big Daddy Badger is offline
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My crop is my paycheck, how much of our paycheck do you spend feeding elk.
How much of my paycheck goes to feeding farm subsidies already?
  #92  
Old 03-28-2014, 06:34 AM
norwestalta norwestalta is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Big Daddy Badger View Post
How much of my paycheck goes to feeding farm subsidies already?
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Originally Posted by Ranch11 View Post
Issue more landowner tags would solve this. Give me 10 deer tags and 10 elk tags. Or just let me shoot what I want on my land. I'm not making any money feeding wildlife. Or let us sell that meat as well.
I like this idea ranch. I don't need ten elk but if I could have the tags and disperse them to people I want to would be a great idea. Make the season 6 months. There is no easy answer because of the 100+ elk that run around at my place their is a 100+ at the neighbors. Is taking 10 or 20 elk out of the herd going to make a difference? Maybe but minimal imo. Take 80 out of the herd now we're talking. So now we've got 80 guy's shooting 80 elk out of my herd next thing you know we got somebody complaining that there is no elk left and something has to be done to save the elk herds. They're already bitching about the whitetail and mule deer numbers being down. It's a non stop roller coaster.
Me personally it's a catch 22. I hate to see the elk busting up my fences and eating my feed but I hate the mess some hunters leave behind and rutting up my field because they're to stupid to figure out that it rained and the fields are soft. I lean to the side of putting up with the elk.
  #93  
Old 03-28-2014, 07:26 AM
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At the end of the day, crop/livestock losses are simply a cost of doing business, and can be mitigated through a variety of avenues. Every company through every industry has to plan for and overcome similar obstacles, usually with far fewer options than farmers have. I can understand the frustration, but if your unfenced bales are getting torn up, I really have little sympathy.
Every other business passes added expense on to the customer. If I pay the added expense to build a fence who do I pass that expense on to.
  #94  
Old 03-28-2014, 07:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Wild&Free View Post
fimoney comes from government coffers to subsidize your losses. they do bear a burden of cost that tax payers across the nation funnel funds into hunters and vegetarian alike.
I pay taxes also.
  #95  
Old 03-28-2014, 07:33 AM
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I don't know how it is in Alberta but here in Sask. we can get help from the first nations ,they eat meat and can hunt any time any place if they have permission.
  #96  
Old 03-28-2014, 07:39 AM
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Originally Posted by norwestalta View Post
I like this idea ranch. I don't need ten elk but if I could have the tags and disperse them to people I want to would be a great idea. Make the season 6 months. There is no easy answer because of the 100+ elk that run around at my place their is a 100+ at the neighbors. Is taking 10 or 20 elk out of the herd going to make a difference? Maybe but minimal imo. Take 80 out of the herd now we're talking. So now we've got 80 guy's shooting 80 elk out of my herd next thing you know we got somebody complaining that there is no elk left and something has to be done to save the elk herds. They're already bitching about the whitetail and mule deer numbers being down. It's a non stop roller coaster.
Me personally it's a catch 22. I hate to see the elk busting up my fences and eating my feed but I hate the mess some hunters leave behind and rutting up my field because they're to stupid to figure out that it rained and the fields are soft. I lean to the side of putting up with the elk.

Exactly my thoughts as well. Or having fences cut. Man, I hate that. I got signs up, lock my gates, still guys figure they have to go in. For every ten hunters driving around the property, maybe one has stopped to at least talk, yet alone ask for permission. And I give permission to those who ask. I give permission to every body, I figure let them fight over it, cause I'm tired of it. It's funny cause the result I've found that if you give everybody permission, they get tired of having other guys on there, and the next thing you know, nobody is on there cause they figure there's already somebody on there.
  #97  
Old 03-28-2014, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Big Daddy Badger View Post
How much of my paycheck goes to feeding farm subsidies already?
As I said before, let me set the price for what I produce like every other business. Then I can pass the cost of production on to the end consumer.
  #98  
Old 03-28-2014, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by gunsight View Post
I don't know how it is in Alberta but here in Sask. we can get help from the first nations ,they eat meat and can hunt any time any place if they have permission.
I know more than one farmer that has used that option.
  #99  
Old 03-28-2014, 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Ranch11 View Post
Exactly my thoughts as well. Or having fences cut. Man, I hate that. I got signs up, lock my gates, still guys figure they have to go in. For every ten hunters driving around the property, maybe one has stopped to at least talk, yet alone ask for permission. And I give permission to those who ask. I give permission to every body, I figure let them fight over it, cause I'm tired of it. It's funny cause the result I've found that if you give everybody permission, they get tired of having other guys on there, and the next thing you know, nobody is on there cause they figure there's already somebody on there.
I really like how when the shooting starts the elk take off 20 wide through the fence. Posts, wire and staples every where. I almost think a cut fence is better. A guy sure has a lot of friends come hunting season. Lol
  #100  
Old 03-28-2014, 07:56 AM
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Originally Posted by norwestalta View Post
I like this idea ranch. I don't need ten elk but if I could have the tags and disperse them to people I want to would be a great idea. Make the season 6 months. There is no easy answer because of the 100+ elk that run around at my place their is a 100+ at the neighbors. Is taking 10 or 20 elk out of the herd going to make a difference? Maybe but minimal imo. Take 80 out of the herd now we're talking. So now we've got 80 guy's shooting 80 elk out of my herd next thing you know we got somebody complaining that there is no elk left and something has to be done to save the elk herds. They're already bitching about the whitetail and mule deer numbers being down. It's a non stop roller coaster.
Me personally it's a catch 22. I hate to see the elk busting up my fences and eating my feed but I hate the mess some hunters leave behind and rutting up my field because they're to stupid to figure out that it rained and the fields are soft. I lean to the side of putting up with the elk.
If you have an issue with the hunters that you gave permission...then you disallow them from going on your land and let some more responsible folks fill that gap.


Not sure about the guys you allow on but I ask for permission at the areas I have permission each and every year....would be easy enough to tell guys no and why they cannot return, might clue a few of them in....it amazes me to hear how many guys do not ask every year, unless the farmer says to not ask again


LC
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  #101  
Old 03-28-2014, 07:57 AM
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And as someone who lives out in the country, I have had guys literally come park on my driveway and start shooting gophers on the quarter where I live, all without thinking about stopping in to the house.

And once my son was out stalking gophers at the time, dressed head-to-toe in camo. I was not impressed, and they certainly found out about it. (Imagine a roaring, angry mother grizzly bear driving a pick-up truck very quickly toward you and you will have some small idea!)
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  #102  
Old 03-28-2014, 07:59 AM
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It's illegal, we both get charged. LOSE/LOSE.
I realize that. I also think if it was legal you still wouldn't pay it.
  #103  
Old 03-28-2014, 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
So the idea is to charge the people that can help to reduce crop damage, to help pay for crop damage? That doesn't make a lot of sense now, does it?

Using that reasoning, if my house catches fire, I should charge the firefighters for trying to put it out.
If the fire was set by some one else, I am sure you would sue.
  #104  
Old 03-28-2014, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by expmler View Post
All of these organizations and hunters are interested in maintaining high numbers of game. The game lives on the ranchers land and he is expected to bear the cost of damage done by these and hunters want to reap the benefits without contributing anything to said costs.

How many of you hunters complaining here have paid a landowner for access to show your appreciation for said access.
I hope you're not advocating something that is
illegal. Paid access is and always has been illegal in Alberta.
  #105  
Old 03-28-2014, 08:04 AM
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And as it comes to subsidies, there are many other sectors funded as well, so to single out agriculture as the only one when our mixed economy is full of various subsidies isn't exactly fair either. And for ever dollar invested in agriculture, the return is estimated to be $5.

This is not at all a black and white issue, and when you look at how the U.S. manages their supply, (the government buys excess ag product which equates to regulating the price and is therefore a tremendous subsidy) it would be almost impossible for our sector to compete without some sort of similar investment. And of course, a large part of the impetus is to subsidize the average Canadian as investment in ag is also seen as one way to help keep the price of food reasonable.

And then when you factor in ecological goods and services... well, it's economically complex.
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  #106  
Old 03-28-2014, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by skidderman View Post
It is their land. They pay the taxes, they own it. End of story. Does anyone tell you what they can or can't do on your property? To think that any of us can force permission on another person's property is just not right. If I was a farmer, (I'm not) and someone came on my land with that attitude they would not have a single chance of ever hunting on it. If we as a hunting community continue to disrespect farmers then we will truly lose that priviledge forever. Most farmers that don't give permission, don't for one reason. That is that some idiots thought it was a right to do whatever they wanted. If this is the kind of attitude we have in our hunting community I pity us all!!!
I really don't think you were picking up what I was laying down
Landowner does not give access and complains livestock predation and feed loss, also complains of no access for him in areas he wants to hunt, it's a anecdote about some of the problems we face. Yes I'm a landowner yes I own livestock, I allow limited access on a case by case basis.
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  #107  
Old 03-28-2014, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by expmler View Post
So farms could be profitable while keeping prices down so you can get your groceries cheap. Let farmers set the price for what they produce like any other business and this debate would never come up.
^^^^^ this, the farmer has zero control on the price of his product, let us set our price in a competitive market that way we can make enough to survive natural disasters, wildlife disasters, pests, trespassing, fire damages and the list goes on. I understand most businesses are susceptible to some of these things, but most businesses compete in a competitive market where you can set your price. One example is and his is not to pick on truckers because they feed the world with supplies, but when fuel goes up he/she can charge more for the haul, when the price of fertilizer rises or fuel or anything that is involved in the process to grow food I can't raise my price, my price is set based on what is happening in the world. Therefore I get to eat all those extra costs, we are handcuffed. I don't agree with paid access or what these beef producers are proposing, but like at the beginning of this post says, let me set my price and no subsidy or assistance will be needed. Thanks jeff
  #108  
Old 03-28-2014, 08:17 AM
norwestalta norwestalta is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck View Post
If you have an issue with the hunters that you gave permission...then you disallow them from going on your land and let some more responsible folks fill that gap.


Not sure about the guys you allow on but I ask for permission at the areas I have permission each and every year....would be easy enough to tell guys no and why they cannot return, might clue a few of them in....it amazes me to hear how many guys do not ask every year, unless the farmer says to not ask again


LC
No issues here. Only friends and family have permission anymore. It is kind of funny how many people say they are responsible hunters. Come to think of it I've never heard anybody say they weren't. Don't know how this could happen if they're all responsible.
Liars maybe? Responsible in the the eye of the beholder? Who knows.
  #109  
Old 03-28-2014, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by expmler View Post
What other recreational activities other than hunting and fishing do you get to do without paying a fee. Skating rink, campsite, swimming pool, ball diamond, soccer field, gym all have costs and owners all charge fees. You don't pay the fee you don't get access.
I don't pay to camp in the woods, I don't pay to mountain bike or cross country ski on our trails in the city, I don't pay to take the dogs to the dog park, I don't pay to swim or boat in the local river or lake, I don't pay to use the local soccer field, tennis courts, outdoor arena. Not everything recreational involves a user fee as you suggest. As has been posted before, if you own the land, you control the access, but charging for access for the purpose of hunting is illegal.

As for controlling prices like the wheat board, I do believe that you should be able to sell to whomever you please, for whatever price you can get.
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  #110  
Old 03-28-2014, 08:24 AM
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Basically because of the possibility of it becoming a bidding war to access to hunt the most desirable animals and it getting priced out of the range joe lunch pail can afford
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  #111  
Old 03-28-2014, 08:27 AM
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If it came to paid hunting then not one tax dollar should go to a farmer no bail outs nothing. and I would stop buying alberta beef.
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  #112  
Old 03-28-2014, 08:27 AM
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As I said before, let me set the price for what I produce like every other business. Then I can pass the cost of production on to the end consumer.
Good luck with that.
  #113  
Old 03-28-2014, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by skidderman View Post
It is their land. They pay the taxes, they own it. End of story. Does anyone tell you what they can or can't do on your property? To think that any of us can force permission on another person's property is just not right. If I was a farmer, (I'm not) and someone came on my land with that attitude they would not have a single chance of ever hunting on it. If we as a hunting community continue to disrespect farmers then we will truly lose that priviledge forever. Most farmers that don't give permission, don't for one reason. That is that some idiots thought it was a right to do whatever they wanted. If this is the kind of attitude we have in our hunting community I pity us all!!!
Yup trespassers don't help any situation, there are some on here though that think it's their right to enter owned land, I don't understand, again these farmers that have elk problems need herds brought down to controllable levels, taking one or two or even a dozen in several cases won't help. But the solution is not to make the hunter pay for damage, this is NOT their fault.
  #114  
Old 03-28-2014, 08:29 AM
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expmler

why should I have to pay to hunt a resource that is as much your as it is mine, because your mad at the wheat board. if you want to subsidies your income with animals then get some. I pay already for the basic human right to hunt for food, it is your land, I respect that. you didn't create the issue, mother nature did. the animals were here long before it was your land, but it doesn't sound like your doing anything to help the issue. let people hunt within your rules, on foot? whatever you want....but to pay for the same thing twice is preposterous.
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  #115  
Old 03-28-2014, 08:29 AM
Big Daddy Badger Big Daddy Badger is offline
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^^^^^ this, the farmer has zero control on the price of his product, let us set our price in a competitive market that way we can make enough to survive natural disasters, wildlife disasters, pests, trespassing, fire damages and the list goes on. I understand most businesses are susceptible to some of these things, but most businesses compete in a competitive market where you can set your price. One example is and his is not to pick on truckers because they feed the world with supplies, but when fuel goes up he/she can charge more for the haul, when the price of fertilizer rises or fuel or anything that is involved in the process to grow food I can't raise my price, my price is set based on what is happening in the world. Therefore I get to eat all those extra costs, we are handcuffed. I don't agree with paid access or what these beef producers are proposing, but like at the beginning of this post says, let me set my price and no subsidy or assistance will be needed. Thanks jeff
So you are against capitalism and a free market?
  #116  
Old 03-28-2014, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by expmler View Post
Every other business passes added expense on to the customer. If I pay the added expense to build a fence who do I pass that expense on to.
Isn't the fence saving you money? You have to amortize the payback is all. High fencing the hay storage won't be too painful and will have the most obvious benefit. High fencing the whole operation would have less benefit, but then one doesn't have to deal with those pesky hunters!

The suggestion of allowing landowners to shoot & sell the wildlife would have significant fallout, and at what point would they be inclined to lure and corral more animals if there was economic benefit in it?
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  #117  
Old 03-28-2014, 08:32 AM
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Good luck with that.
You should be hoping for that kind of luck, it would be good for everyone!!
  #118  
Old 03-28-2014, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
I don't pay to camp in the woods, I don't pay to mountain bike or cross country ski on our trails in the city, I don't pay to take the dogs to the dog park, I don't pay to swim or boat in the local river or lake, I don't pay to use the local soccer field, tennis courts, outdoor arena. Not everything recreational involves a user fee as you suggest. As has been posted before, if you own the land, you control the access, but charging for access for the purpose of hunting is illegal.

As for controlling prices like the wheat board, I do believe that you should be able to sell to whomever you please, for whatever price you can get.
So there are no city taxes, everyone of those examples but boating on the river are city facilities paid for by taxes that you pay. Without that payment there would be no access because the facilities would not exist.
  #119  
Old 03-28-2014, 08:39 AM
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I hope something can be done about the Elk in South Alta. ie hunting tags for ten animals!
  #120  
Old 03-28-2014, 08:41 AM
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Wow can you imagine the whining, moaning and dripping if landownerswhere to form a coalition of a township of land and charge $100 a day per head. Maybe we could afford to buy our own grader to keep the roads in good shape. That would be something wouldn't it.
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