Long Range Ballistics

[elkhunter11]

Are you 100% sure that the heavier bullet of the same design will ALWAYS shoot flatter at longer distances?

Let us suppose that you loaded both the 95gr Berger vld and 115gr Berger vld in a factory 243win hunting rifle,say a Remington,Winchester,Ruger or Browning rifle.Both bullets would be loaded to the same chamber pressure.Which do you suppose would shoot flatter out to 500 yards?How about at 1000 yards?

How sure would you be about your prediction?

[Bobby B.]

Don't attempt to confuse the issue. I said that with any given bullet weight of the same design, the heavier the bullet, the greater the SD and the higher the BC. It's really that simple.

Bobby B.

Originally Posted by Bobby B.

Don't attempt to confuse the issue. I said that with any given bullet weight of the same design, the heavier the bullet, the greater the SD and the higher the BC. It's really that simple.

Bobby B.

LOL...he'll never give in Bobby B......just be content in what you know!

[elkhunter11]

I said that with any given bullet weight of the same design, the heavier the bullet, the greater the SD and the higher the BC. It's really that simple.

Of course that is generally true,but you still didn't answer my question.Is it because you don't honestly know the answer?

LOL...he'll never give in Bobby B......just be content in what you know!

Isn't it ironic that I have seen several people post similar statements in relation to you.

How about you,would you care to answer the questions below?I would think that they would pose no challenge for you.Just simple answers will do,no need to give any answer if you are just going to try and avoid a simple answer.Or are too unsure to even attempt an answer?

Let us suppose that you loaded both the 95gr Berger vld and 115gr Berger vld in a factory 243win hunting rifle,say a Remington,Winchester,Ruger or Browning rifle.Both bullets would be loaded to the same chamber pressure.Which do you suppose would shoot flatter out to 500 yards?How about at 1000 yards?

How sure would you be about your prediction?

[Bobby B.]

Sheep,

I hear you, buddy, he's searching for some opening. His usual strategy is highly predictable. If he can't demonstrate where you're at fault, he's obsessed to create one. Nonetheless, facts are facts. Let him prove me wrong. I said what I said and I'll defend it.

Bobby B.

[elkhunter11]

Nonetheless, facts are facts.

And the fact is,that you avoided answering my simple questions,because you either aren't confident of your answer,or you think that your own answer may prove that your theory is not as airtight as you believe it to be.

The simple fact is that out to 500 yards or so,there is no practical advantage to using heavier bullets for hunting,and beyond 500 yards,where most people won't shoot at an animal anyways,there is only an advantage if your rifle is capable of properly stabilizing those long heavy bullets.In many cases,the standard twists used in factory hunting rifles,aren't up to the task.

[noneck180]

You would never get any of those manufactures to have a twist rate to stabalize a 115 gr Berger,..

[elkhunter11]

You would never get any of those manufactures to have a twist rate to stabalize a 115 gr Berger,..

Exactly my point.So what do you suppose that the 1000 yard trajectory would be like if you used that high B.C. bullet in the average factory hunting rifle?

[noneck180]

lol

[Rantastic]

bergers ballistician told me that shooting my factory 1 in 10 twist savage this high above sea level should shoot their 180 gr 1 in 9 twist bullets just fine. havent tried since im happy witht he load i have now but its nice to have the option.

[Canuck Bob]

I use this freeware program for estimation. I can vouchthat it is close when compared to published data to a couple hundred yards. It has never caused me any malicious program problems as well.

http://www.handloads.com/calc/

[leo]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Are you 100% sure that the heavier bullet of the same design will ALWAYS shoot flatter at longer distances?

Let us suppose that you loaded both the 95gr Berger vld and 115gr Berger vld in a factory 243win hunting rifle,say a Remington,Winchester,Ruger or Browning rifle.Both bullets would be loaded to the same chamber pressure.Which do you suppose would shoot flatter out to 500 yards?How about at 1000 yards?

How sure would you be about your prediction?

Look dude ,compare apples to apples. Using chamber pressure is unfair, so is using obscure bullets intended for specialty firearms. Stick to convential bullets of a given design, with an optimal weight range. But Before I keep playing along why don't you post a thesis on here ,stating all the variables that can and potentially can affect chamber pressure. Then we can bow down at the alter and proclaim you the "Resident Ballistician". Oh by the way we'll be checking your work !

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Mind if I borrow this? Whew that feels better

[elkhunter11]

Using chamber pressure is unfair,

If you are going to compare the ballistics of various bullets,how can you fairly compare them if you don't load the cartridge as close to the SAAMI pressure levels as possible,or at least to the same chamber pressure for each bullet?Is it more fair to use a reduced load for one bullet,and a maximum load for another bullet?

[Jerry D]

Lighter bullets do shoot flatter out to ~500 for the most part, but what about wind drift? Light vs heavy.

[noneck180]

Depends on velocity aswell..

Originally Posted by noneck180

Depends on velocity aswell..

Partially but weight is also a factor with wind.

[noneck180]

Okay SH..

What will have more wind drift and drop??

A 22LR with a 40gr bullet
or 22-250 with 52 gr bullet.. both .223

Talk about beating a horse..JC

well where is your answer hot shot???

Originally Posted by noneck180

Okay SH..

What will have more wind drift and drop??

A 22LR with a 40gr bullet
or 22-250 with 52 gr bullet.. both .223

Talk about beating a horse..JC

LOL....talk about extreme examples and I wasn't talking drop. All I'm saying is that both weight and velocity are a factor with wind drift, as is BC. Velocity alone does not dictate wind drift. Wind has less effect on a heavy object but velocity partially dictates flight time along with BC so they both play into the equation. No dead horse there, this was the first question about it. Just smile and be happy you learned something today. Everyday you learn something is a good day.

[elkhunter11]

Lighter bullets do shoot flatter out to ~500 for the most part, but what about wind drift? Light vs heavy.

Dependent on B.C. and velocity.

[noneck180]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

LOL....talk about extreme examples and I wasn't talking drop. All I'm saying is that both weight and velocity are a factor with wind drift, as is BC. Velocity alone does not dictate wind drift. Wind has less effect on a heavy object but velocity partially dictates flight time along with BC so they both play into the equation. No dead horse there, this was the first question about it. Just smile and be happy you learned something today. Everyday you learn something is a good day.

You sir will never teach me anything,,,lol..

[Rantastic]

if u look at one of my earlier posts i state that the difference btween a 140 and 180 gr 7mm berger bullet is 140gr, 11 inches of drift at 10 mph cross wind at 500 yards compared to at 180gr which gets 13 inches of wind drift at 10mph at 500yards
yes a difference that grows when wind grows but in my mid if ur holding off a ft already.... 2 inches isnt gonna matter.

I guess one thing that should be explained is that weight alone plays no role in bullet drop. BC and velocity are all that are needed to calculate drop. Weight does become a factor, however, when calculating wind deflection....along with BC and velocity.

A 140 grain bullet with a .4 BC will exprience identical drop to a 200 grain bullet with a .4 BC providing they leave the muzzle at the same velocity. How they are affected by wind will vary, however, with the 200 grain bullet experiencing less deviation. Drop is a simple calculation.....wind is more complex.

[elkhunter11]

Weight does become a factor, however, when calculating wind deflection....along with BC and velocity.

Not according to the wind drift charts in my new Barnes manual.The chart lists only B.C.s and velocities.There is no mention at all of weight or sectional density.If you have the new Barnes manual,give it a look.

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Not according to the wind drift charts in my new Barnes manual.The chart lists only B.C.s and velocities.There is no mention at all of weight or sectional density.If you have the new Barnes manual,give it a look.

I don't doubt it...few programs calculate wind properly.

[noneck180]

Correct..velocity..is crtical..even high or low B.C bullets, that are heavy or light. ex: a .308 cal 210 gr B.C .631 bullet won't go to far being shot out of sling shot, compared to a 300 Win mag...

[clakjp]

Originally Posted by noneck180

Correct..velocity..is crtical..even high or low B.C bullets, that are heavy or light. ex: a .308 cal 210 gr B.C .631 bullet won't go to far being shot out of sling shot, compared to a 300 Win mag...

[elkhunter11]

I don't doubt it...few programs calculate wind properly.

If you leave the B.C. and velocity the same but change the bullet weight,the wind drift remains constant with the calculations below as well.

http://www.handloads.com/calc/

Using the JBM calculations below,the difference was .2" at 1000 yards(88.6" vs 88.8") when I changed the bullet weight from 200 to 220gr.

http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin..._drift-5.0.cgi

It appears as though the difference is so small,it is only theoretical,and can't practically be measured.Unless of course you have a gun that groups small enough at 1000 yards to measure .2".

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

If you leave the B.C. and velocity the same but change the bullet weight,the wind drift remains constant with the calculations below as well.

http://www.handloads.com/calc/

As I said above......

I don't doubt it...few programs calculate wind properly.

[noneck180]

Mass is used in the calculation of B.C so if you are changing the weights..with out changing or unless you have a known B.C. of that bullet, from a previous formula,, the results will be skewed.