6.5 Grendel vs 308 Win

[Stinky Coyote]

123 gr vs 168 gr
2580 fps vs 2700 (factory hornady ammo)

6.5 G = 52.7% less recoil
6.5 G = 26.8% less bullet weight
6.5 G = 4.4% less velocity
Same penetration, .252/.253 sd’s

Nearly same impact velocity range distances all the way out.

Almost identical to the difference between 6.5 cm and 300wm.

Not trying to be an azz here, just trying to portray more accurate perspectives to help explain the apparent marketing and hype etc. When SOCOM adopts something to replace the 308, there’s a lot more too it than marketing and hype. Just trying to show what that can mean to hunters. Use it right, like anything else, and it ain’t no thing but a chicken wing.

[urcayuse]

Nice stats. I guess if you guys keep hitting antlers and arseholes you need all the help you can get. 🙂

[Stinky Coyote]

My 270 would have done no better. In fact I was left pleasantly surprised even knowing I had more than enough in my hands. As I mentioned before, if you got to be a apart of the processing you never have guessed what cartridge it was and never suspected anything but a standard long action cartridge. The performance was far more about bullet construction rather than its size or what piece of brass it launched from. Just proved exactly what I’ve been showing, which numbers really matter, and that pretty much all our choices have more than enough in 0-300 yard work where 98% of all big game is taken.

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by urcayuse

Nice stats. I guess if you guys keep hitting antlers and arseholes you need all the help you can get. 🙂

Lmao, the envy of fine follow up shooting through 100 yrds of trees is real.😂

If the math hurts then by all means find any way to attack the teacher. Because that will change reality lol.

[6.5 shooter]

Stinky I think we get it that you like the 6.5 but 3 threads on the same subject is a bit much but yes sometimes good threads are killed a bit to quickly.

[41thunder]

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

Lmao, the envy of fine follow up shooting through 100 yrds of trees is real.😂

If the math hurts then by all means find any way to attack the teacher. Because that will change reality lol.

I read your thread. Honestly I’m a little shocked. Not really sure why you Are trying to give everyone advise. Maybe less computer time and more at the range

[Don_Parsons]

BULLET WEIGHT165 GR. HDY SP
ManufacturerHodgdon
PowderCFE 223
Bullet Diameter.308"
C.O.L.2.750"
Starting Load
Grains45.4
Velocity (ft/s)2,649
Pressure46,700 PSI
Maximum Load
Grains48.3
Velocity (ft/s)2,839
Pressure61,500 PS

[Don_Parsons]

And the 308 Winchester dudes will have less felt recoil then the Granola with reduced loads.

308 Winchester 130gr bullets 500 Meters with 1121 ft-per, 363 ft-lbs energy.
This works out to 821 ft-per seconds at 200 meters
We can load down, where as the smaller cases are limited to case capacities since they can't load up.

Funny how the tables turn

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by Don_Parsons

BULLET WEIGHT165 GR. HDY SP
ManufacturerHodgdon
PowderCFE 223
Bullet Diameter.308"
C.O.L.2.750"
Starting Load
Grains45.4
Velocity (ft/s)2,649
Pressure46,700 PSI
Maximum Load
Grains48.3
Velocity (ft/s)2,839
Pressure61,500 PS

Just comparing factory to factory, I’ve read the Grendel is loaded to 2650-2750 in 20” and 24” barrels. Reloaders can make cartridges a lot kore versatile. I’m simply showing baseline comparisons so people know what the new stuff can do compared to long time standards and where things fit.

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by 41thunder

I read your thread. Honestly I’m a little shocked. Not really sure why you Are trying to give everyone advise. Maybe less computer time and more at the range

You’re doin alright, trying to engage, that finger you’re pointing there’s three more pointing right back revealing the truth here.😉

It’s not advice, just view points, on cartridges and bullets, as the more accurately relate to each other. You’re welcome.👌

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by 41thunder

I read your thread. Honestly I’m a little shocked. Not really sure why you Are trying to give everyone advise. Maybe less computer time and more at the range

x2. Lost all credibility when he commented that energy and momentum don't mean anything when it comes to a dead animal.

[Beeman3]

Originally Posted by AndrewM

x2. Lost all credibility when he commented that energy and momentum don't mean anything when it comes to a dead animal.

I agree with you on that. Every one of these threads lacks FT-LBS on target. That is why I have posted direct numbers from my 6.5X47 compared to my 300 Win Mag. Funny how I never get a reply after posting these numbers on threads that are titled "COMPARED" to. Kind of surprised more guys don't post up actual numbers from there loads. Instead of bickering post up some hard numbers to make actual comparisons. When my 300 Win Mag at 200 yds has more than 1500 ft-lbs of energy compared to my 6.5X47 I say enough said! 300 Win Mag has about the same energy at 750 yds (2047 ft-lbs) as the X47 does at 200 yds (2001.1 ft-lbs). Also my 6.5X47 is no slouch, it runs 130 Bergers at 2950 fps.

[urcayuse]

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

Lmao, the envy of fine follow up shooting through 100 yrds of trees is real.😂

If the math hurts then by all means find any way to attack the teacher. Because that will change reality lol.

Sigh! I’m actually a big fan of 6.5 projectiles launched from mild mannered cartridges, not a magnum guy at all. And I agree with you on many points.
If you think a 6.5 cm can out run a 300 wm then you are skewing things.
A 300 wm can move a 210gn Berger at just over 3k. A 140 Berger (or eldx) 6.5 bullet at around 2800 will not touch that. The only advantage would be felt recoil if you actually compare apples to apples.
And reality? Well the reality is that people are getting tired of being beat over the head with the Creedmoor bible by the self appointed teachers and defenders of all things 6.5.
If you want to convince people share posts of some good targets of short and long range work. Show some chrony data with low ES, and show some successful results from hunts. The rest of it is just exhausting.

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by urcayuse

Sigh! I’m actually a big fan of 6.5 projectiles launched from mild mannered cartridges, not a magnum guy at all. And I agree with you on many points.
If you think a 6.5 cm can out run a 300 wm then you are skewing things.
A 300 wm can move a 210gn Berger at just over 3k. A 140 Berger (or eldx) 6.5 bullet at around 2800 will not touch that. The only advantage would be felt recoil if you actually compare apples to apples.
And reality? Well the reality is that people are getting tired of being beat over the head with the Creedmoor bible by the self appointed teachers and defenders of all things 6.5.
If you want to convince people share posts of some good targets of short and long range work. Show some chrony data with low ES, and show some successful results from hunts. The rest of it is just exhausting.

I didn’t choose 6.5’s, I just follow numbers, and that’s where the magic is currently. All the info about range work and a lot more hunting info is out there. This is a pretty small forum, you find plenty.

[Don_Parsons]

I to agree that there are deffinatly some advantages of each cartrage,,, and this is with out disadvantages as well.

X catrage offers this,,, Y cartrage for that.

"Hopefully" they perform for the operator, that's what really counts.

Just because our group decided to go hunting this year with the magnum guys doesn't mean squat,,, same for them putting up with us BB hunters.

This will be the same for the gang in Northern Ontario,,, the goal is about good times. "Inclusion" to the group.

I guess it depends on how the message is delivered and received,,, most wize humans don't waist their time drawing exclusion in life

Can that particular cartrage / rifle do the job,,, sure it can,,, "hopefully" the package is delivered when it's needed.

If my fellow brothers or sister fills the tags, then all of us reap the rewards.

None of us have to fit the mold of the "best of the best,,, if that floats the boat, then have at it,,, same as others that choose their path in life.

I'm old school, still learning small things along the way,,, but the majority stuff that's sorted will most likely remain the same.

Why give up on something thats working. Ha

It's tough being a knuckleheads at times you know

[Dick284]

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Dick284

Exactly! Cabin ever must be setting in early!

[sns2]

We can't restrict topics to popular cartridges.

OP, if you are here to argue you're skating on thin ice.

Everyone else, if you are not interested in the discussion just move on and don't take part. Lots of threads to engage in.

[wolf308]

Originally Posted by Dick284

Bahahahaha. I resisted looking at this thread for whenever.

But also lusting after a grendal ...... one day.


Hahaha this picture says it all. Thanks. Glad I came. No need for page 2.

[Norwest Alta]

Curious to what criteria needs to be met to designate a chambering inefficient? What makes one more efficient then the other?

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Norwest Alta

Curious to what criteria needs to be met to designate a chambering inefficient? What makes one more efficient then the other?

If you honestly want to learn about what makes a cartridge efficient look up P.O. Ackley. It was his area of expertise. His goal was to maximize the efficiency of any cartridge.

Of course you may already know this and just want someone else’s opinion on the matter.

Powder burned vs speed gained, pick your projectile.

[Norwest Alta]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

If you honestly want to learn about what makes a cartridge efficient look up P.O. Ackley. It was his area of expertise. His goal was to maximize the efficiency of any cartridge.

Of course you may already know this and just want someone else’s opinion on the matter.

Powder burned vs speed gained, pick your projectile.

No just wanted your opinion. I can’t fault nor will I for your way of thinking but they way I read your post is you’re willing to compromise speed to burn less powder? Is this to save money? Seems to me that powder is the cheaper of all ingredients to make a bullet come out the barrel. In my mind efficiency is

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by Norwest Alta

Curious to what criteria needs to be met to designate a chambering inefficient? What makes one more efficient then the other?

apparently it's a 30 deg shoulder.. according to Kurt

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Salavee

apparently it's a 30 deg shoulder.. according to Kurt

See there you go again, just gotta pick it, lol.

Like I said, you’re doing a fine job of making yourself look not too smart.

Maybe quote me on something else I didn’t say, it seems to make your strongest arguements

[Jeron Kahyar]

[AndrewM]

Once again match bullets you are using for hunters to compare.
6.5 G = 37-40% less momentum
6.5 G = 39-43% less energy

[Stinky Coyote]

There was a great thread deleted recently that I don’t think I saw you on? So you maybe missed all the good eldm info from links posted from the long range guys on other forums. The match style bullets such as amax or eldm are well known performers in game. Especially these long high sd bullets, good expansion on the front end and still plenty left at the back end to keep that penetration deep.

Sns2 I get your frustration but you nuked a lot of good data in that thread. A lot.

[Jeron Kahyar]

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

Sns2 I get your frustration but you nuked a lot of good data in that thread. A lot.

I can think of three more threads he should remove as they also contain the same amount of "Good Data". What a joke.

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by Jeron Kahyar

I can think of three more threads he should remove as they also contain the same amount of "Good Data". What a joke.

Inclunds data, charts, links to great threads well outside the center of the universe here. We’re you here for that one? Fantastic field results posted etc. Like I said...good data gone.

[Jeron Kahyar]

SC if speed is your metric for gauging efficiency why did you bother with the Creedmore?

6.5x55 vs 6.5 Creedmore
156gr Oryx (same for both)

6.5x55:
2352 - 2507 fps

6.5 Creedmore:
2349 - 2536 fps

This gives you anywhere from a 0.1% loss to a 1.1% gain in efficiency. Hardly worth it some may think.

*Just for fun*
300H&H vs 300 Win Mag
180gr Partition (same for both)

300H&H:
2802 - 2939 fps

300 WM:
2914 - 3094 fps

This one gets you from 4 - 5.5% gain. Still looks like not a whole lot but it is something I guess.

*And one more
This is one since it is the original topic of these threads.

6.5CM vs 300 WM
156gr Oryx vs 150gr Partition
(Bullet weight is about as close as you get)

6.5CM:
2349 - 2536 fps

300 WM:
3124 - 3288 fps

Now we can see that jumping to the magnum gives a 23-25% gain in velocity. Now we are getting to something that looks like an actual difference.

*All data from published Norma load data*


Now looking at this seems there is less of a reason to go from the old fashioned cartridge to the new version. Than making the leap from standard chamberings to magnum chamberings. In the end this snipit of information leaves out so much that it is nearly bordering on untruthful. But you know what they say: "There is two kinds of lies damned lies and statistics".