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  #61  
Old 10-20-2017, 01:50 PM
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Silver,

Fair comment on the coyote cross. We purchased her and found out "after the fact" that she was likely a retriever/shepherd/coyote cross through the vet. It was a farm mutt really. The instincts and disposition in this little devil are hard to curb with her. She is aggressive to any animal outside "our pack". She make me work hard, but we love her of course and continue to work with her.

But, yes, my specific issue is a different maybe when compared to "fully domesticated dog breeds" in general but doesn't change my perspective. What does "fully domesticated" really mean and how does one measure that? (rhetorical question - no need to answer).

My point was, I have been able, with other dogs, train and mitigate the dogs impulsive behaviors, but the results vary dramatically by breed. I am never under the illusion that I'm 100% in control with any dog.

I had a dear old neighbor, for many years and after her late husband passed away I walked and spent lots of time with her dog. She was scared of it.

It was a boxer/pit cross and that dog was aggressive. It did not matter how much training and work you did with him, he was just was unpredictable.

Her other dog was fine. It was a lab/mutt and well behaved.

Same training and owner - far different results.

My point remains that different breeds will exhibit different dispositions and, as a result, require more/less training and/or mitigation to curb and modify impulsive instinctual behaviors.

You can't tell me for a minute that something like a golden retriever or spaniel has a similar disposition to that of a pit bull (or jack Russell terrier) - they just don't.

You are going to have to work much harder with the terriers to curb this unwanted behavior and you will always be less sure of the results and how the dog will react in a stressful situation where that instinct, disposition (and subsequent behavior) might be triggered.

Would you disagree? I'm genuinely curious.
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  #62  
Old 10-20-2017, 02:32 PM
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I must be lucky, I've been walking my dog every day for the last 6.5 years at off-leash dog parks and have never seen anything outside of corrections to over excited dogs (usually labs, boxers, overly wired pups). Plus I rotate going to 8-10 different parks. Hope I didn't just jinx myself by saying this.
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  #63  
Old 10-20-2017, 02:38 PM
silverdoctor silverdoctor is offline
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Originally Posted by EZM View Post
Silver,

Fair comment on the coyote cross. We purchased her and found out "after the fact" that she was likely a retriever/shepherd/coyote cross through the vet. It was a farm mutt really. The instincts and disposition in this little devil are hard to curb with her. She is aggressive to any animal outside "our pack". She make me work hard, but we love her of course and continue to work with her.

But, yes, my specific issue is a different maybe when compared to "fully domesticated dog breeds" in general but doesn't change my perspective. What does "fully domesticated" really mean and how does one measure that? (rhetorical question - no need to answer).

My point was, I have been able, with other dogs, train and mitigate the dogs impulsive behaviors, but the results vary dramatically by breed. I am never under the illusion that I'm 100% in control with any dog.

I had a dear old neighbor, for many years and after her late husband passed away I walked and spent lots of time with her dog. She was scared of it.

It was a boxer/pit cross and that dog was aggressive. It did not matter how much training and work you did with him, he was just was unpredictable.

Her other dog was fine. It was a lab/mutt and well behaved.

Same training and owner - far different results.

My point remains that different breeds will exhibit different dispositions and, as a result, require more/less training and/or mitigation to curb and modify impulsive instinctual behaviors.

You can't tell me for a minute that something like a golden retriever or spaniel has a similar disposition to that of a pit bull (or jack Russell terrier) - they just don't.

You are going to have to work much harder with the terriers to curb this unwanted behavior and you will always be less sure of the results and how the dog will react in a stressful situation where that instinct, disposition (and subsequent behavior) might be triggered.

Would you disagree? I'm genuinely curious.
I'm not a believer in dogs being predisposed to aggression - there are no aggressive breeds. And I'm willing to bet your yote cross has trust issues.

Read up on miniature pinschers, pick any site. Most of the information out there is false. Escape artists, should be kept on leash, what a crock. This misinformation goes for all breeds - everyone wants to be the next big expert.

I can honestly say, jack russels take no more work than any other dog. If a person choose to keep a dog in a managed environment compared to running free in a dog park - then you take your chances. I prefer full socialization - no surprises.
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  #64  
Old 10-20-2017, 05:23 PM
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I'm not a believer in dogs being predisposed to aggression - there are no aggressive breeds. And I'm willing to bet your yote cross has trust issues.

Read up on miniature pinschers, pick any site. Most of the information out there is false. Escape artists, should be kept on leash, what a crock. This misinformation goes for all breeds - everyone wants to be the next big expert.

I can honestly say, jack russels take no more work than any other dog. If a person choose to keep a dog in a managed environment compared to running free in a dog park - then you take your chances. I prefer full socialization - no surprises.
Some dog breeds most definitely do have a aggressive predisposition. Or what we identify as aggressive behaviour (prey drive, territorial). It's inherited.

I have a working line German shepherd her ancestors and siblings have been bred for schutzhund, very high prey drive. I have accepted the fact that the dog park isn't a place for her. Owners of pit bull type dogs should take the same stance.

The fact that your dog doesn't display the common traits associated with the breed doesn't meen they aren't present. It shows your a good trainer but you can't change your dogs instincts.

I'm against breed specific legislation but I do believe stiffer penalties are necessary for people who are stupid enough to let their dogs attack/kill other dogs.
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  #65  
Old 10-20-2017, 07:18 PM
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Originally Posted by denpacc View Post
I must be lucky, I've been walking my dog every day for the last 6.5 years at off-leash dog parks and have never seen anything outside of corrections to over excited dogs (usually labs, boxers, overly wired pups). Plus I rotate going to 8-10 different parks. Hope I didn't just jinx myself by saying this.
Funny how that works, so many are afraid of dog parks. Off leash parks are always the end goal.


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Originally Posted by AdAMxr View Post
Some dog breeds most definitely do have a aggressive predisposition. Or what we identify as aggressive behaviour (prey drive, territorial). It's inherited.

I have a working line German shepherd her ancestors and siblings have been bred for schutzhund, very high prey drive. I have accepted the fact that the dog park isn't a place for her. Owners of pit bull type dogs should take the same stance.

The fact that your dog doesn't display the common traits associated with the breed doesn't meen they aren't present. It shows your a good trainer but you can't change your dogs instincts.

I'm against breed specific legislation but I do believe stiffer penalties are necessary for people who are stupid enough to let their dogs attack/kill other dogs.
It may surprise you, but I put no formal training into my dogs, never have. I've owned dogs all my life - or had other peoples dogs' in my life. Simple respect, trust, confidence, honesty (you can't lie to a dog) and a little bit of faith go a long way. I don't use treats, and I don't use force.
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  #66  
Old 10-20-2017, 07:52 PM
^v^Tinda wolf^v^ ^v^Tinda wolf^v^ is offline
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I feel a bit different then some others . The terrier breed specifically I feel has some kind of loose screw in general. I think the pit just can’t deal with its brain being squashed out of its ears and goes all loopy over time. At least the handful I’ve been around that close friends have owned were anyways. One of my best friends also had a jack russle as far back as I can remember And that little dog was the most evil little aggressive beast I’ve ever seen. I do agree the owner had a lot to do with that but I also think the terriers natural disposition also played a roll.
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  #67  
Old 10-20-2017, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by EZM View Post
Certain breeds of dogs have different dispositions when it come down to behaviors. Some breeds of dogs have a more aggressive disposition.

I don't, for one minute, believe that you can put "bad owners" as the primary driver for a dogs disposition.

What a "Good Owner" can do, is mitigate (somewhat control) impulsive behaviors, curb instincts and reduce unwanted dispositional behavior (like aggression).

Case in point ......

I have two dogs - one is aggressive and one is well behaved and controlled - am I a good or bad dog owner?

If I'm a bad dog owner them why is one of my dogs well behaved and well controlled? Could it be that dog (a lab/collie) has a gentle disposition while the other dog (Retriever/Coyote) has an aggressive disposition?

That's my point. Blaming it on the "owners" as the "primary" reason is complete BS - it's a combination of owners ability to train a dog and the dog's natural disposition.

Some breeds of dogs (and some species of animals) are just more likely to be aggressive ...... why is that so wrong to say?
I agree with what your saying. My main point is that a good owner wouldn't have an possessive/territorial aggressive dog at the dog park.
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  #68  
Old 10-20-2017, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by ^v^Tinda wolf^v^ View Post
I feel a bit different then some others . The terrier breed specifically I feel has some kind of loose screw in general. I think the pit just can’t deal with its brain being squashed out of its ears and goes all loopy over time. At least the handful I’ve been around that close friends have owned were anyways. One of my best friends also had a jack russle as far back as I can remember And that little dog was the most evil little aggressive beast I’ve ever seen. I do agree the owner had a lot to do with that but I also think the terriers natural disposition also played a roll.
Brain swelling is total bull sh't
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  #69  
Old 10-21-2017, 01:01 PM
silverdoctor silverdoctor is offline
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I agree with what your saying. My main point is that a good owner wouldn't have an possessive/territorial aggressive dog at the dog park.
Why leave a dog like that in a managed environment? I see it quite often, people bringing their dogs to the park - sometimes in muzzles - to get them socialized. I love dealing with these dogs, lend a hand - and my dog - whenever I can. He's a great mentor.

You see, part of the problem is fear over lack of vaccinations. Person gets a puppy, and vast majority of times they are told not to take the dog out until their vaccinations are up to date around 6 months. Pups are generally around 2 months when they change hands - but what about the other 4 months? See the problem here? The most important time in a puppies life is that 8 week to 6 months - that is the best window to keep socializing and learn how to be a dog. An 8 week old pup is far from a complete dog with good knowledge of dog social life.

Unfortunately, too many puppies end up living with a frustrated owner, for that period of 4 month, given no social skills or knowledge of the world around it - scared of everything. Now you have to take that puppy out into the world for introduction - and many people simply give up, keep the dog at home.

It does my heart good to see 8 week old pups running the parks.

Swelled brain my arse.
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  #70  
Old 10-21-2017, 01:54 PM
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Swelled brain my arse.
Do not be too quick to judge that thought. Certain breeds of bull dogs have been repeatedly bred for certain facial characteristics to the point of not being able to breath properly. If facial characteristics can impair breathing, maybe skull characteristics can impair brain function.

Certain breeds of dogs have been so distorted by breeding that getting bred needs to be done by artificial insemination. If selective breeding has resulted in dogs that can not couple, brain squeeze may not be that far fetched.
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  #71  
Old 10-22-2017, 10:27 AM
robfraser robfraser is online now
 
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Default Dog Spray

I go to dog parks in Edmonton a lot.
I carry dog spray.
Simple, compact, fast, very effective and no permanent damage to the dog.
Buy it at Canadian tire or campers village.
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  #72  
Old 10-22-2017, 10:43 AM
silverdoctor silverdoctor is offline
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I go to dog parks in Edmonton a lot.
I carry dog spray.
Simple, compact, fast, very effective and no permanent damage to the dog.
Buy it at Canadian tire or campers village.
Can't just leave it at that. Ever had to use it?

What kind of dog do you have?
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  #73  
Old 10-22-2017, 10:47 AM
robfraser robfraser is online now
 
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Default Dog Spray

Never had to use dog spray.
Irish Setter
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  #74  
Old 10-22-2017, 10:54 AM
silverdoctor silverdoctor is offline
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Never had to use dog spray.
Irish Setter
Lovely dogs, not commonly seen around parks.
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  #75  
Old 10-22-2017, 10:58 AM
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Problem is when two leashed dogs meet face to face. A big no no.
Break them away from face to face and let them sniff away while watching the reactions. Pretty easy to see what's going on. Off leash a different story. More natural.
Most of the times it's the small yappy dogs that are the biters. Fright or bite!
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  #76  
Old 10-22-2017, 11:00 AM
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  #77  
Old 10-22-2017, 11:07 AM
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Lovely dogs, not commonly seen around parks.
Happy to meet up with you or any AO members at callingwood, Laurier or terwillegar dog parks.
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  #78  
Old 10-22-2017, 11:12 AM
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Happy to meet up with you or any AO members at callingwood, Laurier or terwillegar dog parks.
I'll probably be in Terwillegar later.

So in keeping with the theme of the thread, there's lots of pitties and crosses running the parks. How many dangerous interactions have you had?

Experience any incidents?

I find they are the ones that tend to get dominated by other dogs.
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  #79  
Old 10-22-2017, 11:13 AM
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Attachment 138938

Be careful out there.

How is the dog at parks? Around small dogs?
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  #80  
Old 10-22-2017, 12:52 PM
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I'll probably be in Terwillegar later.

So in keeping with the theme of the thread, there's lots of pitties and crosses running the parks. How many dangerous interactions have you had?

Experience any incidents?

I find they are the ones that tend to get dominated by other dogs.
I have had to break up a few dog fights over the years. Not a fun experience.
Mostly mixed breeds.
A older fellow and his friend took their dogs to callingwood and the dogs got into a fight over a ball. The older guy tried to break it up and got his thumb bit off. Doctors reattached it but it never was the same.
Then I decided to carry dog spray.
I have not seen a serious dog fight in a long time and I go to dog parks every day.
Touch wood.
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  #81  
Old 10-22-2017, 01:18 PM
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News last night mentioned a 7yr old child being killed by two “pit bulls”. Too many similar evens involving “the breed”. I’m good banning the damn things.
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  #82  
Old 10-22-2017, 02:57 PM
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News last night mentioned a 7yr old child being killed by two “pit bulls”. Too many similar evens involving “the breed”. I’m good banning the damn things.
Is that the story where a 7 year old crawled into an enclosure with the dogs and got killed? The dogs were locked up?

Well, lets get rid of Huskies, Rotties, Dobermans, Labs etc while we're at it.
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  #83  
Old 10-22-2017, 03:40 PM
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Is that the story where a 7 year old crawled into an enclosure with the dogs and got killed? The dogs were locked up?

Well, lets get rid of Huskies, Rotties, Dobermans, Labs etc while we're at it.
I guess they were not locked up well enough? With the reputation that Pit Bulls have I would think that the enclosure would be child proof.

For now I would be OK with just getting rid of Pit Bulls.
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  #84  
Old 10-22-2017, 03:48 PM
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I guess they were not locked up well enough? With the reputation that Pit Bulls have I would think that the enclosure would be child proof.

For now I would be OK with just getting rid of Pit Bulls.
Time to get rid of Labs, nothing but a nuisance.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montre...ylaw-1.4238284
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manito...ipeg-1.3731862
http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/winnipe...-dog-1.3116711

Lots of stories out there. Now I'll wait til the "it's the owner, not the dog" crowd shows up to take a stand for their Labs.


And while we're at it... Can't tell the difference between a purebred Lab and a "pitbull"? Pretty bad when you have to go to court to defend your Lab from being destroyed.

http://wagthedog.dlcc.ca/2007/09/whe...er-a-pit-bull/
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  #85  
Old 10-22-2017, 04:40 PM
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Time to get rid of Labs, nothing but a nuisance.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montre...ylaw-1.4238284
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manito...ipeg-1.3731862
http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/winnipe...-dog-1.3116711

Lots of stories out there. Now I'll wait til the "it's the owner, not the dog" crowd shows up to take a stand for their Labs.


And while we're at it... Can't tell the difference between a purebred Lab and a "pitbull"? Pretty bad when you have to go to court to defend your Lab from being destroyed.

http://wagthedog.dlcc.ca/2007/09/whe...er-a-pit-bull/
Are you are padding your case against labs? Two of the three links are the same story.

I do not know what people who can not identify breeds has to do with this unless your demand for DNA is part of your motive. Breed specific laws should require proof of the specific breed.

You know Silver, I have only met a few dogs in my whole life that I did not like, but the ones that did tick me off usually were small yappy dogs.

I have seen some tiny vicious dogs yapping and growling and straining at the lead trying to get at someone with a larger well mannered dog.

Owners of those little yappers seem to get a free ride on the aggressive thing, and I think some of those yappers should be banned from public dog parks.
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  #86  
Old 10-22-2017, 06:15 PM
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Always seems to be “pivots” to draw in other breeds. Time to face up to the reality that yappy ankle nippers are not maiming/killing humans. Pit bulls are a problem.
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  #87  
Old 10-22-2017, 06:58 PM
silverdoctor silverdoctor is offline
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Are you are padding your case against labs? Two of the three links are the same story.

I do not know what people who can not identify breeds has to do with this unless your demand for DNA is part of your motive. Breed specific laws should require proof of the specific breed.

You know Silver, I have only met a few dogs in my whole life that I did not like, but the ones that did tick me off usually were small yappy dogs.

I have seen some tiny vicious dogs yapping and growling and straining at the lead trying to get at someone with a larger well mannered dog.

Owners of those little yappers seem to get a free ride on the aggressive thing, and I think some of those yappers should be banned from public dog parks.
I'm not padding my case against Labs.

How many in Ontario do you figure ended up getting court ordered to rehome or destroy their dogs - that weren't even pitties? And it was only because the dog looked like a pitbull - that's all it took. Lab crosses, Boxers crosses, the list goes on - many had no so called "pitbull" in them whatsoever.

Started this thread to see where people's heads are, it's plain to see where they are.


But alas, these are just rumblings about BSL.
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  #88  
Old 10-22-2017, 09:07 PM
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How many in Ontario do you figure ended up getting court ordered to rehome or destroy their dogs - that weren't even pitties? And it was only because the dog looked like a pitbull - that's all it took. Lab crosses, Boxers crosses, the list goes on - many had no so called "pitbull" in them whatsoever.
I have not read the legislation but if it was breed specific or crosses with specific breeds that were ordered rehomed or destroyed, it should not and can not be applied to crosses that look a certain way. I do not want to re read that link but I think the story ended with the court agreeing with the dog owners.
I am not sure I understand what is your point?

You seem to sway from being bent out of shape that you have had to break up so many fights to everything is one happy party at the places your min pin exercises you.

There are bad dogs and good dogs out there and there are bad owners and good owners.

Bad dog or good dog a good owner is responsible for his/her dog no matter what the breed.

All that said, I have no problem with them banning pit bulls and at the same time have no problem thinking labs for the most part should not be part of a breed specific ban. I am not saying that all labs should get a free pass.
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Old 10-22-2017, 09:17 PM
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  #90  
Old 10-22-2017, 09:21 PM
silverdoctor silverdoctor is offline
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I have not read the legislation but if it was breed specific or crosses with specific breeds that were ordered rehomed or destroyed, it should not and can not be applied to crosses that look a certain way. I do not want to re read that link but I think the story ended with the court agreeing with the dog owners.
I am not sure I understand what is your point?

You seem to sway from being bent out of shape that you have had to break up so many fights to everything is one happy party at the places your min pin exercises you.

There are bad dogs and good dogs out there and there are bad owners and good owners.

Bad dog or good dog a good owner is responsible for his/her dog no matter what the breed.

All that said, I have no problem with them banning pit bulls and at the same time have no problem thinking labs for the most part should not be part of a breed specific ban. I am not saying that all labs should get a free pass.
Well my friend, that's where you're wrong. Ontario's and Montreal's (from what I understand) BSL focuses on the "look" of a dog, not the breed. Looks like a duck, walks like a duck - then it has to be a duck.

When labs and boxers and such gets caught up in a pitbull ban? Who in this day in age can't identify a labrador retriever? I know Animal control and cops that can't identify a dog breed. We need DNA - cause whomever is looking at these dogs can't tell a dog from a hole in the ground - and that's the average joe. That's sad reality. That concerns me.

That's like the idea of a gun being banned cause it's black.

You haven't read the legislation, the average person hasn't.
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