Just aheads up about shipping firearms by Canada Post - Page 2

wwbirds · #31 10-20-2017, 05:31 PM

I agree cat but they are holding a gold inlay engraved shotgun hostage to gain compliance

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catnthehat · #32 10-20-2017, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wwbirds

I agree cat but they are holding a gold inlay engraved shotgun hostage to gain compliance

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So they want you too send them a trigger lock so they can open the package and install the lock ( Heaven knows how badly!!!) then thhey will send it BACK to you?
Cat

SlightlyDistracting · #33 10-20-2017, 06:01 PM

I just bought a barrelled action.
Mailed canada post. Bolt included. No locking device
Its kind of funny. I had troubles receiving it, was shipped here, then to Calgary, re-labeled, and back here 2 days late. I wonder......

SlightlyDistracting · #34 10-20-2017, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck

And yet, on a revolver, you can use a zip tie to disable the trigger and hammer, and it is considered a trigger lock, but wouldn't show up on an X-ray...the stupidity and madness of it all! But this is why I always go the extra mile to secure when shipping, because there is always some bean counting anal retentive who can ruin your day because he works for the government, and is here to help.

Well said

Puma · #35 10-20-2017, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Flint&Fly Guy

Where can you buy these?

Bell economy trigger locks is one example. Most ranges and gun stores sell these on a card of three or in multi bags. I usually pick them up at gun shows for a buck a piece.

wwbirds · #36 10-20-2017, 06:48 PM

as well as a lockable case to return it to me.

calgarychef · #37 10-20-2017, 07:43 PM

So what they're saying by a lockable container is...they don't trust their employees. No one else should have access to it so there's no one else to worry about

Sask Bearman · #38 10-20-2017, 08:00 PM

Who is this stupid policy protecting?

elkhunter11 · #39 10-20-2017, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobtodrick

I thought this was common knowledge.
Why do you think Cabela's, P&D and everyone else state that you must purchase a trigger lock before they will ship anything by Canada Post?

I have never received one firearm from a dealer that had a trigger lock installed, and I have purchased several dozen that were shipped by Canada Post.

bobtodrick · #40 10-20-2017, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I have never received one firearm from a dealer that had a trigger lock installed, and I have purchased several dozen that were shipped by Canada Post.

Mea Culpa...I've only purchased handgun online (Cabelas) which required a triggerlock...didn't realize it was only for restricted.

HunterDave · #41 10-20-2017, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wwbirds

supervisor pointed it out to me as I said in article 3.3 just amended in the January 17 2017 PDF.

Good to know. Thanks!

elkhunter11 · #42 10-20-2017, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobtodrick

Mea Culpa...I've only purchased handgun online (Cabelas) which required a triggerlock...didn't realize it was only for restricted.

I received two handguns from dealers via Canada post, both just had a tie wrap on them, no trigger lock.

wwbirds · #43 10-20-2017, 09:09 PM

90% of people in the firearms business as well as individuals dont even know about this. I received a box of 4 firearms from a dealer not long ago in a cardboard box with no trigger locks. Laughable because as it has been said the only people that could possibly steal them are bonded employees of the post office. The lockable case and trigger lock protects employees from other employees but I have to bear the cost.
Have filed a complaint with postal ombudsman, canada firearm centre as well as my federal mp. Next Tuesday is my ship free day so will be sending locking case and trigger lock to them at no charge, bureaucracy at its best.

CMichaud · #44 10-20-2017, 09:11 PM

something smells off...

How can they want it trigger locked and in a locked container?

unload the firearms
attach a secure locking device to the firearms
lock the firearms in a sturdy, non-transparent container, and
remove the bolt or bolt carrier from any automatic firearms (if removable)

It's almost like they meant to say

unload the firearms
attach a secure locking device to the firearms; OR
lock the firearms in a sturdy, non-transparent container, and
remove the bolt or bolt carrier from any automatic firearms (if removable

CMichaud · #45 10-20-2017, 09:16 PM

From the RCMP site

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/faq/trans-eng.htm#d3

Q. Can I send firearms in the mail?

You may ship restricted firearms, non-restricted firearms and prohibited handguns from one Canadian location to another Canadian location if you use the most secure method offered by Canada Post that requires a signature upon delivery. Prohibited firearms, other than prohibited handguns, and firearms being shipped across the Canadian border, must be shipped by an individual or carrier company licensed under the Firearms Act to transport those classes of firearms.

You are required by law to ship firearms unloaded and in a safe and secure manner to deter loss, theft and accidents.

bobtodrick · #46 10-21-2017, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I received two handguns from dealers via Canada post, both just had a tie wrap on them, no trigger lock.

Canada Posts website say that a 'secure locking device' must be used when shipping firearms through them.
It's on their website. https://www.canadapost.ca/tools/pg/m...-e.asp#1389620
Just how do you lock a tie wrap?
Don't know what the other carriers require.

bluther2 · #47 10-21-2017, 10:17 AM

I guess there will be a lot more "parts" shipments occurring.

Njati · #48 10-23-2017, 06:21 AM

I bought a winchester model 70 from Russels sporting goods in Calgary years ago had it delivered to FT Mac via Canada post. Got home from work one day and i see this package with the winchester logo standing against my from door. No-one home so they left it standing at the door pretty obvious what was in the package. No trigger lock on it either.

elkhunter11 · #49 10-23-2017, 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobtodrick

Canada Posts website say that a 'secure locking device' must be used when shipping firearms through them.
It's on their website. https://www.canadapost.ca/tools/pg/m...-e.asp#1389620
Just how do you lock a tie wrap?
Don't know what the other carriers require.

That doesn't change the fact that the dealers did not have trigger locks on the firearms that they shipped to me. Then again, a tie wrap is about as secure as those tiny plastic trigger locks that some people sell. I have used a needle nose pliers in the two holes to remove them at the range and I could have just as easily broken the plastic with about as much force as it would take to break a tie wrap. From now on, I will just choose to ship using another carrier, if I have to ship a firearm.

Pathfinder76 · #50 10-23-2017, 07:18 AM

If the NFA wasn’t so completely useless maybe they could get involved.

Jack Hardin · #51 10-23-2017, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guysmiley

A friend of mine just ordered an AR-15, it came via Canada Post in a cardboard box. No locked case and no trigger lock. The box was wrapped in brown paper.....

They must not X-ray all packages....

I purchased a long gun this past June and it arrived via Canada Post without a trigger lock. So, yea, I guess they don't x-ray them all.

bobinthesky · #52 10-23-2017, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobtodrick

I thought this was common knowledge.
Why do you think Cabela's, P&D and everyone else state that you must purchase a trigger lock before they will ship anything by Canada Post?

I purchased a shotgun from a dealer 3 weeks ago and they didn't require that I purchase a trigger lock. The gun arrived without a trigger lock in it's factory cardboard box.

Pathfinder76 · #53 10-23-2017, 07:43 AM

The law does not require it. The law also does not allow for theft. Report it stolen.

whiteout · #54 10-23-2017, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuck

The law does not require it. The law also does not allow for theft. Report it stolen.

This isn’t theft since nothing has been stolen. The CP regulations for sending firearms are explicit, OP decided the risk of not following them was worth it Andy got caught.

The law allows Canada Post to establish regulations surrounding the mail, it also allows them to enforce those regulations. The law also allows for criminal charges for violating CP regulations.

wwbirds · #55 10-23-2017, 09:40 AM

Quote:

This isn’t theft since nothing has been stolen. The CP regulations for sending firearms are explicit, OP decided the risk of not following them was worth it Andy got caught.

The law allows Canada Post to establish regulations surrounding the mail, it also allows them to enforce those regulations.

Wrong! Canada Post cannot enforce internal policy with illegal seizures. Onus to educate users to policy change is on Canada Post. they can refuse service if policy not followed but have no enforcement rights to seizure to to hold firearms hostage to induce compliance. They are a bonded carrier and as such no reason to secure firearms from their own employees. If the integrity of the postal system is in question for shipping firearms between licensed individuals they cannot place the burden of safety on shippers. Perhaps anyone in postal system should be trained on safe handling. Perhaps xray operators should be trained to recognize an unassembled non restricted firearm which is not operable so doesn't require trigger lock. Perhaps all employees who many have casual contact with firearms need to have the education, training and personal scrutiny of their affairs that all licensed firearm owners endure every 5 years.
The purchaser and seller have already been proven stable by virtue of holding a PAL so if any flaw in shipping by CP it is the security or stability of CP environment and staff. You cant delegate responsibility you are either reliable as a bonded carrier or you are not.

whiteout · #56 10-23-2017, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wwbirds

Wrong! Canada Post cannot enforce internal policy with illegal seizures. Onus to educate users to policy change is on Canada Post. they can refuse service if policy not followed but have no enforcement rights to seizure to to hold firearms hostage to induce compliance. They are a bonded carrier and as such no reason to secure firearms from their own employees. If the integrity of the postal system is in question for shipping firearms between licensed individuals they cannot place the burden of safety on shippers. Perhaps anyone in postal system should be trained on safe handling. Perhaps xray operators should be trained to recognize an unassembled non restricted firearm which is not operable so doesn't require trigger lock. Perhaps all employees who many have casual contact with firearms need to have the education, training and personal scrutiny of their affairs that all licensed firearm owners endure every 5 years.
The purchaser and seller have already been proven stable by virtue of holding a PAL so if any flaw in shipping by CP it is the security or stability of CP environment and staff. You cant delegate responsibility you are either reliable as a bonded carrier or you are not.

Are you disputing the fact that CP is allowed to establish and enforce regulations surrounding the mail and what constitutes mailable matter? They are not enforcing a policy, they are enforcing a regulation established under law, huge difference.

Inoperable isnt really relevant to this case. CP requires a secure locking device to be attached to a firearm being mailed, the definition of firearm includes frames and receivers.

wwbirds · #57 10-23-2017, 10:14 AM

We would like to believe that when they are making policy about firearms and safe transportation they would seek advice from the Canadian Firearms Centre or knowledgeable staff. Besides the obvious that that wasn't done in this instance they have a duty to educate the user base when policy changes are made. At the very least staff accepting firearms (not sure how they would know without x rays at input) should inquire if the firearm is trigger locked and in a locking case. Under no circumstances can Canada post accept a firearm and then illegally seize it to induce compliance.
There is also a requirement under law for consistency of application of policy allowing thousands of firearms to be shipped across the country without locking cases and trigger locks while transporting my "unsafe" shipment clear across the country to a seizure holding vault rather than the final 30 miles to the final destination. I did not chose to ignore the regulatiion I was unaware of the change and my local post office knows I both send and receive "long" packages. There was no mention of policy change by any staff when I dropped off 3 boxes. Having talked to them since they were also unaware of the requirement change. I fully expect the policy will be changed after formal complaints to my Federal MP, the Postal Ombudsman as well as the Canadian Firearms Centre of the RCMP about an illegal seizure of a legal transfer. These policies do not make sense but we have to live with them until changed.
The intact parcel is on its way to the purchaser by expedited mail at CP expense. I received an apology and an update on the shipping status from Ottawa at 7 AM. She said she had never seen political will change so quickly.

Dick284 · #58 10-23-2017, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wwbirds

We would like to believe that when they are making policy about firearms and safe transportation they would seek advice from the Canadian Firearms Centre or knowledgeable staff. Besides the obvious that that wasn't done in this instance they have a duty to educate the user base when policy changes are made. At the very least staff accepting firearms (not sure how they would know without x rays at input) should inquire if the firearm is trigger locked and in a locking case. Under no circumstances can Canada post accept a firearm and then illegally seize it to induce compliance.
There is also a requirement under law for consistency of application of policy allowing thousands of firearms to be shipped across the country without locking cases and trigger locks while transporting my "unsafe" shipment clear across the country to a seizure holding vault rather than the final 30 miles to the final destination. I did not chose to ignore the regulatiion I was unaware of the change and my local post office knows I both send and receive "long" packages. There was no mention of policy change by any staff when I dropped off 3 boxes. Having talked to them since they were also unaware of the requirement change. I fully expect the policy will be changed after formal complaints to my Federal MP, the Postal Ombudsman as well as the Canadian Firearms Centre of the RCMP about an illegal seizure of a legal transfer. These policies do not make sense but we have to live with them until changed.
The intact parcel is on its way to the purchaser by expedited mail at CP expense. I received an apology and an update on the shipping status from Ottawa at 7 AM. She said she had never seen political will change so quickly.

It is good to here some resolve is coming on your behalf.

As for a policy change, I'm not keen to see what that might be, as I'm quite aware these issues could very well go in the non desired direction, basically negating CP as a means to ship firearms.

Be careful who or who's cage you are rattling.

Twisted Canuck · #59 10-23-2017, 10:32 AM

Glad to hear CP did a one eighty on this and sent the package as well as apology WWB.....the squeaky wheel got greased!

whiteout · #60 10-23-2017, 10:33 AM

Which part of the regulation was changed in January, it wasn’t the part requiring a secure locking device since that isn’t new this year. Looking for an archived version of it, but it’s referenced on CGN and GOC over the last 5+ years.

This link has an older version of the regulations from 2012

http://www.gunownersofcanada.ca/show...pping-firearms