Semi-auto shotguns

[ABDUKNUT]

Well truthfully I didn't intend that to be obnoxious, and I'm sorry you took it that way... I was just making an analogy that those more familiar with rifled barrels than smoothbores can relate to better. It wasn't any attempt to offend you at all.

[Dick284]

I like this ignore feature

Ah.
The happy family like atmosphere here at AO has me wishing I were back in the land of Ire.
Where the Protestents love the Catholics, and after all what's a bomb blast or two between your fellow man.
It brings the pangs of home into me heart.

NOT

Quite honestly this thread has hit the dumpster big time.

Think about how this place looks right now to a new comer.

[Jamie]

Originally Posted by ABDUKNUT

As an accomplished rifleman, what caliber do you recommend to amateur rifle shooters? 378WBY??? 416 Rigby???

I guess if you were hunting Cape Buff, both of them would do the job. I would hate to have a 243 in my hands while one of those bad boys was available. Sure it could do the job, but why chance the bad hit?
Honestly, I don't find the kick that bad. Who feels the kick when your hunting anyhow???
Besides weren't your same points used when they invented the 3" shell? And when the 3.75" shell comes along there will be people saying all you need is a 3.5" shell

I think that is Sheep's point, Some situations make sense to use a 3.5" shell.

Jamie

[Jamie]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

"As was shooting on the MI State Trap & Skeet team. What's your claim to fame?"

Sorry, no mention of you winning anything. My mistake. I apologize.

Yet another good one


There is some gold in this thread

Jamie

[Unregistered user]

I am looking for a new shotgun and when I stumbled upon this thread I was surprised at the 'tudes. abduknut I think is a master in his field and I have learned from you. I wanted an 870 in 3.5 for steel loads and to use the same gun with cheap target loads for up-close fool hens. I gave no thought to the dynamics of speed Vs. lead in consistency. I thought go big because I shoot big rifles and kick don't scare me or make me flinch. I am interested in a Benelli autoloader because I think the quality rates the price as do the U.S. Marines. It would be nice to see this thread get back on track and Abduknut how about starting a thread on wingshooting for those of us who have room to improve?

[lazy ike]

M70, I think it's an A-5. As far as i know it's seen little use but I'll bust it open and have a look just the same. thanks

[lilsundance]

ok, Having been gone for 9 days I sure missed a lot. That being said I would sure hate to lock this thread due to the bickering. I haven't read it all but from what I have read it really discust's me. Any new member here would really be turned off this board if this was the first thread they read. Everyone has an opinion, if you disagree with that opinion fine but state why. Belittling someone simply because you disagree with them doesn't make for good reading. It doesn't do this board any good neither.

Originally Posted by Dick284

but your hell bent on looking like the South end of a North bound horse.

oh man, im saving this one for work Dick.


I.B.T.L.








.

[NS Beagler]

This is a funny thread, I have been watching, waiting for a shot gunner to asweretr the question. Seems like abduknut is the only shotgunner. He is totally right about the 2 3/4 , it puts more lead on target than the 3 1/2. A BB has to be round to fly staight. When you have that many BBs coming out the diameter of a 12 they just run into each other. Shot string isn't really that good at a distance. I like to read on shot gunning and I believe I read that from A walker.

[sullijr]

[QUOTE=ABDUKNUT;42787]Hey Dick284, I read somewhere that this board 'aint your first rodeo' so to speak... As an accomplished rifleman, what caliber do you recommend to amateur rifle shooters? 378WBY??? 416 Rigby???

What about for those wary, late season whitetails??? .408 CheyTac?

Is it not a fact that inconsitencies in technique can be overcome easily with increased powder capacity and bullet weight?

you have made the ignore list

[Jamie]

Originally Posted by NS Beagler

This is a funny thread, I have been watching, waiting for a shot gunner to asweretr the question. Seems like abduknut is the only shotgunner. He is totally right about the 2 3/4 , it puts more lead on target than the 3 1/2. A BB has to be round to fly staight. When you have that many BBs coming out the diameter of a 12 they just run into each other. Shot string isn't really that good at a distance. I like to read on shot gunning and I believe I read that from A walker.

Not sure if that is true, but sounds resonable.
However.. I dont think Steel bends to much, so...... that argument is out the window.

Jamie

[NS Beagler]

"I dont think Steel bends to much, so...... that argument is out the window."LOL Just because you don't think doesn't mean its out the window. All steel has give to it especially with the pressure a 3.5 ounce load creates.
"

[Jamie]

As I understand it, and if someone does know the exact truth.
Steel does not deform, if it goes in round, it goes out round. That is the reason so many oldershotguns had to be put away. (Full choke, steel doesnt deform nearly like lead). I have found a few pellets in the geese we have shot, and they all looked like they could be re-used.

I dont think your argument holds much water

But who knows, anyone have a firm answer?

Jamie

[Dick284]

As I understand it too Jamie.
Lead is easy to deform.
Stell is'nt.
While shot string length will indeed affect your pattern to some degree, shot string length was a term thrown around in the lead shot days to again de sway people from going towards 3" shells. Gee do I here an echo somewhere?
Having never shot a 3.5" 12ga I can't comment about their effectiveness. But having done a lot of time on the pattern board with both 2.75" and 3" in both lead and steel I can tell you they both will pattern if you know what your doing.
With the right load of lead 6"s in my 870 and a factory FC tube I can get patterns in the 80 to 85% range. With my old 3" sky buster load of 1-3/4oz of lead 2"s in a 3" hull I can get 70 to 75% patterns with the same FC tube, and drive it up another 5% with an Extra full tube installed.
With steel I switch to my modified tube and get on order of 80% patterns with steel 2's in a 2.75" hull, but only if I add a bit of buffer to the load. A 3" load of Steel B's in the same tube will run close to 90% patterns using no buffer.
I went to B's because in order for me to get a Full Choke type pattern in my shotgun with BB's or larger I had to move to my IC tube, and for the days when it all comes together I use the 2.75's exclusively, and if I'm not having such a great day and the shots are longer out come the 3 inchers. I could imagine going to a 3.5 incher for those everythings gone wrong days, but until I get a shotty with a 3.5" chamber we'll never know.

No steel does not deform coming out of the barrel...hence the use of more open chokes with steel and hence the tighter patterns and shorter shot strings. While shot string length is reduced significantly with steel, it still plays a factor at longer ranges. Not all of the shot reaches the target at the same time and a fast flying bird at a longer range can quite literally fly through the pattern without being hit with the entire length of the string.

Beagler you are correct about some shotguns not patterning as well with 3.5" shells but typically it just means a choke change....while other will shoot equally tight groups with shells from 2.75-3.5"

For the record...most shotgun and shotshell manufacturers do not recommend the use of full chokes with steel and some of the other harder alternatives and in most cases a modified or improved choke will actually give you tighter patterns with steel. This is a hard concept for lead shooters to grasp but it is because steel does not deform. In some cases, especially with older shotgun, shooting steel from a full choke can actually be dangerous.

[ABDUKNUT]

[QUOTE=lilsundance;42889]...I would sure hate to lock this thread due to the bickering...Any new member here would really be turned off this board if this was the first thread they read.[QUOTE]

Well I'm a pretty new member here, and from what I've seen there's a certain 'boys club' attitide here where the new guy gets called out by the old fellas. Make one bad remark and the whole gang wants to jump ya... I guess you CAN'T teach an old dog new tricks, should have known better.

I'm leaving for 2 weeks of travel tomorrow so have fun...

I think it was mom that said if you show a little respect you'll get a little respect.....sage words for everyone on the board I'd say....

Glad I'm not an old dog...I learn new tricks everyday.

[Dick284]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

I think it was mom that said if you show a little respect you'll get a little respect.....sage words for everyone on the board I'd say....

Glad I'm not an old dog...I learn new tricks everyday.

Sage advice for sure.
I know this dog will never stop learning.

[ABDUKNUT]

Originally Posted by M70

Does anyone shoot the Stoeger 2000? Apparently, they use a similar system to the Bennelli but I'm a little sceptical about durability.

I was talking to a guy at the local gunshop and he said that a couple of the outfitters down here were buying the Winchester X2's a couple of seasons ago for their client guns. They now have the X3's out. Does anyone shoot one?

About the Stoeger 2000, I've seen a few of them and they appear to be a newer version of the old original 3" SBE or Beretta Pintail. They are fine guns but this is a dated design, and do nothing to tame recoil.

Beretta owns both Benelli and Stoeger. Beretta produced the Pintail, in Portugal, to sort of revive the old SBE and sell it at a cheaper price, and I guess that's what they are doing with the Stoeger.

Like I said they are fine guns, a little cheaper than a Beretta or Benelli, and they are made in Turkey. Personally, neither cheap nor made in Turkey are things that excite me. Also, the wood stocks are horrible. If you prefer wood this gun won't appeal to you.

If you are intend on getting a 3.5" gun, so that you have the capability of shooting the longer shells at God knows what, then my best recommendations would be the Xtrema I or II, based on the premise that MOST people feel they are the best handling, best feeling 3.5" gun. It's been noted somewhere earlier in this thread, that I in fact don't shoot 3.5" shells at anything, thus I have no need for a 3.5" gun. Therefore, that's about all I can say about them, other than Beretta pioneered the KO system in their Xtrema line. The Italians know exactly what they heck it is that they are doing with this, as with the SBE II comfortech. These guys are at the top of the heap when it comes to modern shotgunning, and they absolutely realize that a 6.5 lb pump gun is NOT the platform conducive to decent shooting with long mag loads.

On the topic of reliability- most modern autoloaders don't need much cleaning. I like to take the trigger group out and wash it with warm soapy water, then lube it with a light oil about every week. This is on top of a quick wipe down and a few wads of toilet paper down the barrel after each hunt. The main thing you are going to run into in dry dusty AB is gunk in your magazine. You gotta keep this thing clean, or you'll soon find yourself hunting with a $1000 single shot. Some people like hunting with a $1000 single shot, but I sure as heck don't, so I keep my tube clean and oil it. When it starts getting cold, I do something else. I dissasemble the entire gun and clean all the metal with warm soapy water. I then use a Remington product called DriLube, a Teflon based aerosol lubricant, sprayed generously into the receiver, mag and trigger.. This dries into a white pasty sort of film, and it works wonders. Gone are the days of cold induced slow bolt cycling.

You mentioned the local outfitters buying X2's. My guess is that a good portion of the outfitted bird hunters in AB are from the NW States. The X3 is a locally popular gun in the NW States from what I've seen. This might have something to do with it.

If you are interested in these guns, take some time at shop that has the bunch of them and look them over carefully, try all the features and see what seems to fit. The X2 and X3 are nice, but they ain't no Italian made Beretta, or a Benelli for that matter.

If you bought the X2 and ended up not liking it, I'm sure you could sell it or trade it back just before next Fall for close to what you payed for it. The Stoeger won't retain re-sale value to the same degree.

If there's a shop near you that deals in used firearms, keep an eye out for a Beretta A390, AL391 or Benelli SBE (with the older flat rib) and maybe you can get into one for a little less than what they charge for a brand new one.
If you value my advice whatsoever get yourself a proper wood stocked gun, and stay away from the plastic camo stuff that is the fad these days. If you keep the gun for many years, you'll understand why.

If you value my advice whatsoever get yourself a proper wood stocked gun, and stay away from the plastic camo stuff that is the fad these days. If you keep the gun for many years, you'll understand why.

Just curious as to why. I'm not a big fan of the looks of the camo stocks...in fact I think the Benellis are about as ugly as you can get but is there a reason other than that??

[ABDUKNUT]

The finish scratches, fades and wears off. Looks terrible. I like wood & blued guns because even when they get beat up they still hold appeal to me. I think moisture gets underneath the film too.

Camo patterns are just fads. What's hot this year will be 'out of style' 2 years from now. Won't hold monetary value. I really don't like anything camo except for the bare essentials (hunting jacket) so this is probably a matter or personal taste. Wood and blue are timeless and no matter how whimsical you feel, you'll still appreciate the wood gun.

Wood feels much nicer on the cheek and wont give you frostbite when you get into some cold weather.

Wood is not as durable as synthetic, but if cared for will last just as long.

Makes sense.....I love black guns and the feeling of that rough stock against my cheek in the morning. No way I'm going to own a camo shotgun though.....well other than my turkey gun. But, there is something to be said for a wood stock and the tales the scratches on it can tell.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Makes sense.....I love black guns and the feeling of that rough stock against my cheek in the morning. No way I'm going to own a camo shotgun though.....well other than my turkey gun. But, there is something to be said for a wood stock and the tales the scratches on it can tell.

Synthetic stocks?
Refer back to my " sister ' comment in the other thread!
Cat

Apparently I missed a lot in life never having a sister.....

[Jamie]

Also a big wood fan here.
Every scar tells a story.

But I do have to admit to owning a Synthetic (AKA Plastic) Super Nova. The ONLY reson I bought it was that it fit me rather well. I find with regular pumps I end up holding the gun behind the slide action. When you let loos, the slide comes back a bit and BITES your hand. Withe the Super nova, the slide is about 2 inches longer.

Jamie

[Rackmastr]

For my waterfowling needs, I'm all about a synthetic....I beat the snot out of my waterfowling shotgun. Its been IN the bow River in December, and has been frozen up a few times. Its been stuffed in the stubble all season long, covered in marsh water, duck and goose blood, dog slobber, etc, etc....

I could clean it with a pressure washer at times....heh....but it holds up well and a quick clean (and a more thorough clean on the inside) and it looks good as new. Yes...its camo. Its a shadowgrass from Mossy Oak and its personal preference more than anything. I dont care if it holds its value for a 'fad camo' as it blends in now in a goose field and I'm happy with it. The Dura-Touch from Browning hasnt faded, scratched, marked, etc after 3 years of abuse...so I'm doin good so far at least.....and I dont mind if it fades, scratches, etc.....just havent done it yet....

Either way...shotgun finishes, styles, etc all come down to personal choice, fit, and preference, much like everythin else in the world.

Nothing better than the feel of a nice SxS with beauty wood stock and blued action for upland hunting though IMO.....

Wish I'd have bought one of those Ruger Red Label All-Weather over and unders when they first brought them out is black and stainless...now that was a pretty gun.

[Rackmastr]

I agree....very nice rigs.....a guy cant own too many firearms either....I just have to convince my wife of that!

[M70]

Hey would you look at that! The thread made it back onto the road. Good advice here fellas. Gives me food for thought.