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  #271  
Old 12-06-2018, 05:50 PM
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BoltAction9 BoltAction9 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Jeron Kahyar View Post
When it all comes down to it. This is a great way to choose. Reality of it most cartridges will work for the majority of situations most will hunt. Pick it because you like it!

Yup! I used to only be interested in fast flat new cartridges but as I grow older I’m finding myself really drawn to firearms with history behind them and less concerned with ballistics. I will not deny the point being made about the performance of the 6.5’s, but for my own personal reasons, they aren’t my preference, neither is a .338 RUM.
  #272  
Old 12-08-2018, 02:38 AM
Don_Parsons Don_Parsons is offline
 
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Same for the majority of our crew,,, some of them will remain in the super-size category as long as they can,,, some of us have stepped it back. Purhaps we are the only ones that will know this when the time comes,,, at least we have options like the 243's, 25/06, 6.5's, 7 or 308's that have next to nill for recoil.

That's not saying that a person can't load down with the big bores or keep them hot with recoil add-ons to tame things down if a persons chooses.

A world of endless options you know.

It looks like Northern Ontario is the home of the large slow bullets, Ha,,, my hunting partner and I are in line with part 2 of endless hunting days ahead this year. Don't get me wrong,,, 3 months of Northern Alberta in Archey to hunting season was a blast. Endless Moose and Deer,,, it took some time to get onto those Elk.

The Transplanted Elk thing here in Ontario didn't pan out,,, to much snow with to many Wolves,,, the heard West of us is pretty much wipe out. It only cost Alberta about $2 to 4 million to share in this fit test. Ha.

Lots of them drown in the un-frozen lakes since there is no shortage of slush ice up here under the snow pack. Pretty dangerous in the early part of winter you know.

Any ways,,, the Ontario Pan handle boys are hosting us again this year to share in the good times,,, Old school firearms that most folks would think are long past there days. Ha. A new rifle up here is a 303 British as they flatten Moose like pancakes.

Kind a like the thread suggested,,,, big slow bullets are the best. Ha. There ain't no 6.5's up in this neck of the woods. I guess someone needs to get up here to let folks know what their missing out on. LOL

Have fun gang,,, chat with the AO gang once we rap up the season with the full meal deal,,, of course fishing and hunting season never really ends till the Supreme Bean invites me to team up with the old timers from long ago.
  #273  
Old 12-08-2018, 07:20 AM
Don_Parsons Don_Parsons is offline
 
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Part 2 of agree to disagree of the unknowns.

So we seen whats "kind of" happening in part 1,,, purhaps this "could" be some more factors of what plays into this since Pascal's Law also has a small part in this mix.

The faster bullet slows down faster then a slower bullet, this "might be true as well.

Both of the identical bullets leave the barrel at the same time, the slower bullet offer less discharge recoil, gathered less heat, is traveling slower and hits object with a lesser force,,, this might represent less compressed mass in front of the bullet,,, probilibly less calories as well.

The same bullet but faster has greater discharge recoil,,, much more friction with heat build up on the bullet as well...it reaches the object faster with greater velocities,,, compression in front of the bullet is much greater since the materials of the object is now more compressed because of this greater force pushing against it. Purhaps more calories are being released more rapidly,,,, deffinatly more heat to rip things apart. "unknowns" in some ways.

It almost seems that the faster bullet that has slowed down faster is doing better than the slower bullet that has less impact calories.

Yes,,, the faster bullet slowed down faster on object impact,,, but it transfers kinetic energy into heat energy at a much faster rate. Kinda like offering more calories from the get go,,, and over the long hual,,, the same size slower bullet also has its zone of delivering the goods,,, purhaps it's at a later stage of the game.

1000's of unknowns, agrees to disagrees as it all works out in the end.

Everyone is correct / or not,,, so long as the "impacted" object excepts either of the trajectories being delivered.

Ha

That's the nice thing about cartrages, bullets, powders, and firearms,,, we can calculate all the numbers into numbers to prove nothing that is real.

Let's not forget what the word "Real" is... Of course most humans think that they are real,,, we're lead to believe that we are. If this is the definition of being "real" how come that we are born the fad away. LOL.

From un-real pal Jeathrow Bowdean

Last edited by Don_Parsons; 12-08-2018 at 07:26 AM.
  #274  
Old 12-08-2018, 07:30 AM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is offline
 
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The Transplanted Elk thing here in Ontario didn't pan out,,, to much snow with to many Wolves,,, the heard West of us is pretty much wipe out. It only cost Alberta about $2 to 4 million to share in this fit test. Ha.
So are you trying to tell us that Northern Ontario receives more snow than the mountains where elk live?

Elk were transplanted into North Eastern Alberta and they didn't thrive there either, but it wasn't because of the snow.
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  #275  
Old 12-08-2018, 07:53 AM
Pathfinder76 Pathfinder76 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Xbolt7mm View Post
I do think it’s far overdone on the hype, which has nothing to do with my feelings about the cartridge and it’s abilities, just the everlasting “praise the lord it’s finally here, the end all of cartridges has arrived” garbage. It gets old, especially with the recent influx of biased information introduced on three different threads when all three could have been easily put on this one. That being said, outside of your natural defence mechanisms, these issues have very little to do with yourself directly. I suppose most of us have lumped you, chuck and Stinky into the same boat, right or wrong as it may be. Your post I quoted off of is all valid and appreciated,,, cheers
I’m wondering if you could find a post of mine on the subject that isn’t valid?
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  #276  
Old 12-08-2018, 07:59 AM
Don_Parsons Don_Parsons is offline
 
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At times yes,,, Ontario "sometimes" gets some nasty snow falls that might be caused by the lake affects or how the storms roll in,,, Eastern Canada is one cold place. Ha.

It seems that Moose are pretty resilient at weathering the conditions of a loooooong winter,,, purhaps it's harder on Deer and Elk. I don't know this fore sure.

The first heard of Elk 19 didn't fare the winter at all,,, same for the 2nd transplant,,, both failed miserable.

Yes, Elk were present in Ontario 1000's of years ago,,, but mother nature changed things,,, either the lands or the critters them selves.

I'm not sure how many transplants the Government did across the province of Ontario,,, the heard up here was wiped out in 2010/11. "A guess on my part on that one.

We spotted some massive Moose on the way into camp, that's a good sign of things to happen.

  #277  
Old 12-08-2018, 08:01 AM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by chuck View Post
I’m wondering if you could find a post of mine on the subject that isn’t valid?
I think that most people have heard more than they want to ever hear on the topic, long before these threads surfaced on AO. At least most of the people posting here have a clue what they are posting about, which is a change from being at the range, or a firearms store, or on some of the Facebook pages where the topic has been beaten to death by people that have no clue as to cartridges and ballistics. I was recently shopping for a 260rem, in a make/model that it is chambered, but apparently nobody bothers to stock this combination, because of all of the excitement about the 6.5CM.
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  #278  
Old 12-08-2018, 08:08 AM
Pathfinder76 Pathfinder76 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
I think that most people have heard more than they want to ever hear on the topic, long before these threads surfaced on AO. At least most of the people posting here have a clue what they are posting about, which is a change from being at the range, or a firearms store, or on some of the Facebook pages where the topic has been beaten to death by people that have no clue as to cartridges and ballistics. I was recently shopping for a 260rem, in a make/model that it is chambered, but apparently nobody bothers to stock this combination, because of all of the excitement about the 6.5CM.
These threads have titles. People aren’t reading them surprised at the content. But I have found over the years that the truth makes people really angry at times.
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  #279  
Old 12-08-2018, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Don_Parsons View Post
Same for the majority of our crew,,, some of them will remain in the super-size category as long as they can,,, some of us have stepped it back. Purhaps we are the only ones that will know this when the time comes,,, at least we have options like the 243's, 25/06, 6.5's, 7 or 308's that have next to nill for recoil.

That's not saying that a person can't load down with the big bores or keep them hot with recoil add-ons to tame things down if a persons chooses.

A world of endless options you know.

It looks like Northern Ontario is the home of the large slow bullets, Ha,,, my hunting partner and I are in line with part 2 of endless hunting days ahead this year. Don't get me wrong,,, 3 months of Northern Alberta in Archey to hunting season was a blast. Endless Moose and Deer,,, it took some time to get onto those Elk.

The Transplanted Elk thing here in Ontario didn't pan out,,, to much snow with to many Wolves,,, the heard West of us is pretty much wipe out. It only cost Alberta about $2 to 4 million to share in this fit test. Ha.

Lots of them drown in the un-frozen lakes since there is no shortage of slush ice up here under the snow pack. Pretty dangerous in the early part of winter you know.

Any ways,,, the Ontario Pan handle boys are hosting us again this year to share in the good times,,, Old school firearms that most folks would think are long past there days. Ha. A new rifle up here is a 303 British as they flatten Moose like pancakes.

Kind a like the thread suggested,,,, big slow bullets are the best. Ha. There ain't no 6.5's up in this neck of the woods. I guess someone needs to get up here to let folks know what their missing out on. LOL

Have fun gang,,, chat with the AO gang once we rap up the season with the full meal deal,,, of course fishing and hunting season never really ends till the Supreme Bean invites me to team up with the old timers from long ago.
Just replying to your first paragraph there is also the group of us that just love all guns and cartridges. Beyond the debate which is always informative even if opinions are not the same I myself use a wide variety of cartridges I often take a different rifle on every hunt from my 6mm to my .458 and many inbetween I truly enjoy learning the merits and disadvantages of each. One thing that has become more apparent to me than anything is that matching the bullet type to the cartridges, velocity and intended use is very important much more so than the sd or bc
Lots of good info on here inbetween the junk good points on both sides
  #280  
Old 12-08-2018, 09:45 AM
Don_Parsons Don_Parsons is offline
 
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^^^ X's 2

Exactly, I totally agree,,, if a person likes purple, then have at it,,, it shouldn't make a lick of difference to the next person.

Pretty sure we're all grown men and women that can take care of our selves.

Debating the firearm thing is like politics,,, hopefully we're all messed up after the smoke clears. Ha.

I can see my future of the 30/30, it's flattened out everything I've used them for,,, so long as I'm good and close to get the shot off with the bent sight pin and cracked stock that's been properly repaired with duct tape. Ha.
  #281  
Old 12-08-2018, 09:47 AM
Pathfinder76 Pathfinder76 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Don_Parsons View Post
^^^ X's 2

Exactly, I totally agree,,, if a person likes purple, then have at it,,, it shouldn't make a lick of difference to the next person.

Pretty sure we're all grown men and women that can take care of our selves.

Debating the firearm thing is like politics,,, hopefully we're all messed up after the smoke clears. Ha.

I can see my future of the 30/30, it's flattened out everything I've used them for,,, so long as I good and close to get the shot off with the bent sight pin and cracked stock that's been properly repaired with duct tape. Ha.
Don, do you have some actual experience with the 6.5 Creedmoor you would like to share?
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  #282  
Old 12-08-2018, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by chuck View Post
Don, do you have some actual experience with the 6.5 Creedmoor you would like to share?
I'm wondering how much meat these 6.5 cm fan boys actually put on the ground with it.
  #283  
Old 12-08-2018, 10:04 AM
REMINGTON JIM REMINGTON JIM is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote View Post
There’s in no gun going to feel big enough in this situation. Your best chance is to be supremely practiced and deadly. That will matter far more than cartridge selection. Prolly better off with bearspray.
And that answer is WHY you get NO respect ! You did GOOD up till the BEAR SPRAY ! LOL

Cheers RJ
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  #284  
Old 12-08-2018, 10:08 AM
Jeron Kahyar Jeron Kahyar is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deer Hunter View Post
I'm wondering how much meat these 6.5 cm fan boys actually put on the ground with it.
Probably less than the non fanboys who just happen to own a 6.5. You know sometime from the latest 100 years or so they have been around.

Last edited by Jeron Kahyar; 12-08-2018 at 10:15 AM.
  #285  
Old 12-08-2018, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Deer Hunter View Post
I'm wondering how much meat these 6.5 cm fan boys actually put on the ground with it.
Can you point out the meat discussion please. Thanks.
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  #286  
Old 12-08-2018, 10:26 AM
Pathfinder76 Pathfinder76 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Jeron Kahyar View Post
Probably less than the non fanboys who just happen to own a 6.5. You know sometime from the latest 100 years or so they have been around.
Can you point out where the “fan boys” said they kill any differently. Thanks.
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  #287  
Old 12-08-2018, 10:39 AM
Jeron Kahyar Jeron Kahyar is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck View Post
Can you point out where the “fan boys” said they kill any differently. Thanks.
As soon as you let me know where I have said they kill any "different" to other 6.5's. I merely pointing out that the 6.5 is nothing really new. Been around a long time and other than a few nicer dimensions for the cartridge there is little improvements made.
  #288  
Old 12-08-2018, 10:43 AM
Pathfinder76 Pathfinder76 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Jeron Kahyar View Post
As soon as you let me know where I have said they kill any "different" to other 6.5's. I merely pointing out that the 6.5 is nothing really new. Been around a long time and other than a few nicer dimensions for the cartridge there is little improvements made.
Isn’t that what is being said?
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  #289  
Old 12-08-2018, 10:48 AM
Rockyman41 Rockyman41 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
I think that most people have heard more than they want to ever hear on the topic, long before these threads surfaced on AO. At least most of the people posting here have a clue what they are posting about, which is a change from being at the range, or a firearms store, or on some of the Facebook pages where the topic has been beaten to death by people that have no clue as to cartridges and ballistics. I was recently shopping for a 260rem, in a make/model that it is chambered, but apparently nobody bothers to stock this combination, because of all of the excitement about the 6.5CM.
Dont kid yourself, I love my 260 rem but it's never been a popular offering even before the creedmore came around.
  #290  
Old 12-08-2018, 10:56 AM
Jeron Kahyar Jeron Kahyar is offline
 
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Originally Posted by chuck View Post
Isn’t that what is being said?
Yes that is what was being said.

If all you have to offer are juvinile pejorative comments then there is no need to continue this conversation. I am not here just to be in a p*ssing match.
  #291  
Old 12-08-2018, 11:02 AM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Rockyman41 View Post
Dont kid yourself, I love my 260 rem but it's never been a popular offering even before the creedmore came around.
It has never been overly popular, but the distributor/dealers used to bring in a lot more 6.5x55 and 260rem rifles, than they do now. And the T-3 rifles are all long actions, which eliminates some of the supposed advantages of the 260CM in that platform.
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  #292  
Old 12-08-2018, 11:03 AM
Kurt505 Kurt505 is offline
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Originally Posted by chuck View Post
I’m wondering if you could find a post of mine on the subject that isn’t valid?
Try finding a post of his that is valid.

Good luck.
  #293  
Old 12-08-2018, 12:22 PM
Don_Parsons Don_Parsons is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck View Post
Don, do you have some actual experience with the 6.5 Creedmoor you would like to share?
Yes I have shot a Creedmoor
  #294  
Old 12-08-2018, 02:01 PM
41thunder 41thunder is offline
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I seen 6.5 prc ammo going for more than 6.5x284 ammo the other day. Probably not going to help switch people over
  #295  
Old 12-08-2018, 02:42 PM
Jeron Kahyar Jeron Kahyar is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck View Post
Isn't that what is being said?
Apologies read it Originally as "Is that what is being said?".

Yes it is a fairly common theme in the thread. I was just reinforcing a similar statement I the original quote.
  #296  
Old 12-08-2018, 08:15 PM
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If you like putting gophers in the freezer, use the 6.5, if you would rather put large game in the freezer, use the 300.
  #297  
Old 12-08-2018, 09:29 PM
Smokinyotes Smokinyotes is offline
 
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Originally Posted by 303carbine View Post
If you like putting gophers in the freezer, use the 6.5, if you would rather put large game in the freezer, use the 300.
I’m sure any of the 6.5’s are plenty big for the majority of big game on Vancouver island. I own a 300 and would never sell it but I’m sure if I shot a big bull moose at 200 yards with one of my 6.5x55’s or my 6.5-284 it wouldn’t be any deader if I shot it with the 300
  #298  
Old 12-08-2018, 10:35 PM
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If all else is equal (velocity, SD, penetration), wouldn’t the bullet with the larger cross sectional surface area create a larger hydraulic shock??

Although the larger bullet travels the same distance, it displaces a higher volume of fluid while doing so. Not to mention that it displaces it at a higher rate, because the fluid that it displaces travels from the center of the bullet to the outer circumference in the same amount of time therefore creating a higher pressure directly in front of the ogive. A higher pressure creates a higher amplitude wave which not only creates more damage, but also decays over a longer distance.

It’s not rocket surgery if you stop and think about it.
  #299  
Old 12-08-2018, 10:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Slowburn View Post
If all else is equal (velocity, SD, penetration), wouldn’t the bullet with the larger cross sectional surface area create a larger hydraulic shock??

Although the larger bullet travels the same distance, it displaces a higher volume of fluid while doing so. Not to mention that it displaces it at a higher rate, because the fluid that it displaces travels from the center of the bullet to the outer circumference in the same amount of time therefore creating a higher pressure directly in front of the ogive. A higher pressure creates a higher amplitude wave which not only creates more damage, but also decays over a longer distance.

It’s not rocket surgery if you stop and think about it.
Exactly, but don’t expect common sense and logic when hunters get together to argue the merrits of their preferred cartridges/calibers.

Your right though, It ain’t brain science!
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  #300  
Old 12-09-2018, 06:28 AM
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BoltAction9 BoltAction9 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Don_Parsons View Post
Same for the majority of our crew,,, some of them will remain in the super-size category as long as they can,,, some of us have stepped it back. Purhaps we are the only ones that will know this when the time comes,,, at least we have options like the 243's, 25/06, 6.5's, 7 or 308's that have next to nill for recoil.

That's not saying that a person can't load down with the big bores or keep them hot with recoil add-ons to tame things down if a persons chooses.

A world of endless options you know.
Very true Don, there are a lot of options to tame actual recoil and “felt recoil”. Recoil pads (obviously), heavier stocks, and how your stock is built, a stock that goes straight back and doesn’t drop down like a traditional stock can lessen the felt recoil, so thumb hole and pistol grip (like an ar15) style stocks provide less leverage to the rifle and therefore reduce the felt recoil.

I get what Stinky Coyote is saying about the efficiency of smaller cartridges (in his comparison he uses the 6.5 CM/300 WM and the 6.5 Grendel/308 Win.) but the 300 WM was never designed to be an efficient cartridge, it’s an old school high horsepower kind of cartridge and the the 308 Win. is a more efficient 30/06 and I’d say is king in that regard for the 30 cals. There are so many other variables that come into play that can change the numbers. I personally would choose the 270 Win. over any 6.5 because the ballistics are so comparable and ammo and reloading components are much easier to find and purchase and I can negate any recoil disadvantages with rifle set up
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