6.5 cm vs 300 win mag

[Stinky Coyote]

And just to provide context and a different way for people to view things...

6.5 cm 147 gr vs 300 win mag 200 gr
Factory Hornady Loads
Exact same penetration (sd.301)

6.5 cm has 55.4% less recoil
6.5 cm has 26.5% less bullet weight
6.5 cm has 5.4% less velocity

That is a shat ton less recoil energy giving up very little everywhere else that matters. Basically maintain same velocities at same distances all the way out.

This is the magic of of the 6.5’s...

The Grendel 123 gr does this to the 308 168 gr, almost identically the above.

The PRC 147 does this to the 338 Lapua 250 gr. Not as close as the two examples above but still so close as to compare.

Maybe this helps big picture the actual real world differences better? And show why it’s not hype and marketing.

[elkhunter11]

Having the same S.D. does not mean that they will both penetrate exactly the same amount. And even if they did penetrate the same, if both bullets expand by the same percentage, the larger diameter bullet, will have a larger frontal area, which should produce a larger wound channel. If it really is as simple as having a high S.D. , why not just load up some 100gr .224" bullets for hunting Alaskan Brown bears?

[DiabeticKripple]

The SD value only holds up for a fully intact bullet. It is not the end all be all.

The 300 win mag will penetrate more at the same distances as the CM

[Salavee]

At an impact velocity (say 2000 fps), a bullet slows to near zero in about 20 or so inches .. all in a millisecond. With the velocity gone, along with the remaining kinetic energy, where did all that remaining energy go and what is the force that keeps that bullet moving ? Just curious.

[JohnB]

[Beeman3]

Not knocking the Creed or Grendel. But I leave my 6.5x47 at home when I go elk hunting. I feel way more confident carrying my 300 Win Mag with 215 bergers. I’m getting into smaller calibers and the 6.5 is great. But everything has it’s limitations. Depends how far you shoot and placement trumps everything. I posted some numbers in your previous thread. Energy foot pounds isn’t even close when comparing a 6.5 130 gr to a 30 cal 215 gr. I got to run the 147 gr in my Sherman this winter. But again not a fair comparison to the Creed. I’ll drive the 147 around 3200 fps out of my Sherman. Will be impressive I think.

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by Salavee

At an impact velocity (say 2000 fps), a bullet slows to near zero in about 20 or so inches .. all in a millisecond. With the velocity gone, along with the remaining kinetic energy, where did all that remaining energy go and what is the force that keeps that bullet moving ? Just curious.

Good question to ask the dead animal? Or perhaps the wounded one if it gets caught up too?😉

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

Good question to ask the dead animal? Or perhaps the wounded one if it gets caught up too?😉

I would probably get a better answer from a dead animal. No offence, but I thought you could do better than that.

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by DiabeticKripple

The SD value only holds up for a fully intact bullet. It is not the end all be all.

The 300 win mag will penetrate more at the same distances as the CM

Penetration is the result of sd and impact velocity.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

Penetration is the result of sd and impact velocity.

Penetration is the result of impact velocity, and the S.D. of the bullet as it passes through the animal. With expanding bullets, that also shed mass, the S.D. changes considerably, as the bullet passes through the animal. Therefore, the unfired S.D. is pretty much meaningless, unless you are talking non expanding bullets.

No gun will feel big enough with an Alaskan Brown Bear

So if you were hunting Alaskan Brown bear and had a choice of carrying a 300win mag, or a 6.5 Creedmoor, which would you choose. If the premise of this thread is correct, it shouldn't matter to you. Personally, I would not have to think about the choice , I would take the 300winmag.

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Penetration is the result of impact velocity, and the S.D. of the bullet as it passes through the animal. With expanding bullets, that also shed mass, the S.D. changes considerably, as the bullet passes through the animal. Therefore, the unfired S.D. is pretty much meaningless, unless you are talking non expanding bullets.



So if you were hunting Alaskan Brown bear and had a choice of carrying a 300win mag, or a 6.5 Creedmoor, which would you choose. If the premise of this thread is correct, it shouldn't matter to you. Personally, I would not have to think about the choice , I would take the 300winmag.

The first part was going well until sd is meaningless when it’s everything. Almost there. I explained this in another response already.

As for the bear hunt I’d be perfectly content with any appropriate for game impact velocity, sd and bullet construction. I’d likely be after sd over .3, delayed controlled expansion bullet, and impact velocities north of 2200 fps.

[Kurt505]

Why does it always have to be an Alaskan brown bear?

How many grizzlies were shot in Alberta last year? How many of you even had a tag???

You guys do realize this is about penetration, at least that’s what I got from the op.

Fwiw, I doubt anyone would choose a 6.5 Grendel over a 300 magnum if they were grizzly hunting, but being that most of us on the forum live in Alberta I don’t understand why it always has to come back to grizzlies. I’ll bet 99% of the people on this forum haven’t even seen a grizzly in real life. I’ve seen a total
of 5 in my life, and one was in the park. Never once did I wish I had a 300 magnum when I came across a grizzly.

The topic is about penetration, maybe leave the grizzlies alone since they’re protected.

[Salavee]

I dont think his knowledge is anywhere near what he would like us to believe.
So much for spreading the knowledge base

[Jeron Kahyar]

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

6.5 cm 147 gr vs 300 win mag 200 gr
Factory Hornady Loads
Exact same penetration (sd.301)

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

Penetration is the result of sd and impact velocity.

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

Yes they will penetrate same given same impact velocity and construction(ie; rate of expansion).

You have to be trolling. Nothing else explains how you justify this as fact.

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by Jeron Kahyar

You have to be trolling. Nothing else explains how you justify this as fact.

You have some catching up to do.✌️

[Redrider]

At how many yards does each round drop below 2000 foot pounds of energy?

[Rod in the sticks]

Shot a cow moose yesterday at Camp Wainwright with my 26 Nosler....I know its a fair bit bigger than the CM but that cow never made it 20 yards; had a hole the size of my fist in the ribcage.

In the end, comes down to shot placement.

Great way to start an argument though!!

[aardvaark]

So my hunting partner this year shot a large wt buck from the front with a 6.5 Creed 147 gr bullet. Distance was approx 100 yds. The bullet went thro the esophagus, and pulverized the spine causing instant death. The bullet did not exit the animal. I did not recover the bullet, it must have stayed in the minced spine somewhere. I butchered the animal and saw the result. But it was a whitetail. I personally find it hard to believe that a 300 WM with identical SD would do identical damage. Personally, I would expect that whitetail to have been virtually decapiated using a 300 WM. Do these numbers prove me wrong?

[303carbine]

If you like putting gophers in the freezer, use the 6.5, if you would rather put large game in the freezer, use the 300.

[dogslayer403]

Which would rather you shoot an angry grizzly with if you had to not stirring the pot im a big 6.5 fan but I know my answer.

[shorty]

I bet the 300 carries way more energy all the way and will buck the wind better

[Big Sky]

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by shorty

I bet the 300 carries way more energy all the way and will buck the wind better

The only thing that carries energy is your shoulder and sometimes that little spot between your eyes.

[Xbolt7mm]

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

The only thing that carries energy is your shoulder and sometimes that little spot between your eyes.

That’s a quality statement that does nothing to support anything

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by shorty

I bet the 300 carries way more energy all the way and will buck the wind better

The 6.5 had 1.1” less wind drift at 500 yards than the 300 wm. The 300wm held 2000 fps to 675 and creedmoor to 650, the creedmoor held 1600 fps to 1100 yards and the 300wm to 1075 yards.

This isn’t the first time the creedmoor has been compared to the win mag. The creedmoor, for SOCOM, over the 308 win doubles hit probability at 1000m, with 1/3rd the wind drift. You need to step up to the win mag to hang with it.

Most would think you should compare the 6.5 PRC to the 300 win mag...magnum vs magnum right? Naw, the prc walks the win mag badly. Add 200-225 yards to those distances and 2.3” less wind drift at 500. Reasons guys are raving about these 147’s at 700-1100 yrd elk performance it doesn’t get down to 1600 fps until 1300 yrds. Exact same sd as 200 gr 300 win mag. Penetration simply isn’t an issue...for either. Recoil on the other hand...

[Xbolt7mm]

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

The 6.5 had 1.1” less wind drift at 500 yards than the 300 wm. The 300wm held 2000 fps to 675 and creedmoor to 650, the creedmoor held 1600 fps to 1100 yards and the 300wm to 1075 yards.

This isn’t the first time the creedmoor has been compared to the win mag. The creedmoor, for SOCOM, over the 308 win doubles hit probability at 1000m, with 1/3rd the wind drift. You need to step up to the win mag to hang with it.

Most would think you should compare the 6.5 PRC to the 300 win mag...magnum vs magnum right? Naw, the prc walks the win mag badly. Add 200-225 yards to those distances and 2.3” less wind drift at 500. Reasons guys are raving about these 147’s at 700-1100 yrd elk performance it doesn’t get down to 1600 fps until 1300 yrds. Exact same sd as 200 gr 300 win mag. Penetration simply isn’t an issue...for either. Recoil on the other hand...

And it has about as many foot lbs as an old sling shot

[41thunder]

https://journalofmountainhunting.com...e-300-win-mag/

Compares the 6.5x284 (6.5 prc) 140gr vld vs 300win 190gr vld. It’s possible to get the 215 Berger to 3000fps in most rifles. Prc probably wouldn’t win. FYI 6.5 isn’t a very good caliber for bears

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by dogslayer403

Which would rather you shoot an angry grizzly with if you had to not stirring the pot im a big 6.5 fan but I know my answer.

There’s in no gun going to feel big enough in this situation. Your best chance is to be supremely practiced and deadly. That will matter far more than cartridge selection. Prolly better off with bearspray.

[dogslayer403]

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

There’s in no gun going to feel big enough in this situation. Your best chance is to be supremely practiced and deadly. That will matter far more than cartridge selection.

Agreed im not argueing whats best for that sitution just a reference one is hitting harder with more energy and leaving a bigger hole. You cannot in deny in one of the two compared there is a big difference in stopping power. I have a 358 STA putting 225tsx out at 3100fps the sd and bc is terrible on that bullet and the trajectory is on par at 300yds with the two compared but woth 4900lbs of muzzle energy and a 35cal hole is there even a comparison on killing power between it and the creed.

Appolagize for rambling and not anti creed at all its a fine cartrdge but numbers dont always mean everything and I do see the merit in your points vs recoil you pay a lot for a little more horsepower

[REMINGTON JIM]

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

There’s in no gun going to feel big enough in this situation. Your best chance is to be supremely practiced and deadly. That will matter far more than cartridge selection. Prolly better off with bearspray.

And that answer is WHY you get NO respect ! You did GOOD up till the BEAR SPRAY ! LOL

Cheers RJ