Wildlife Certificate & Reduced Wait Times??

[Deer Hunter]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

It isn't the cost of the WC that keeps out the anti hunters, it's the fact that most won't take the hunter safety course in order to apply. Increasing the application fees won't have the same effect, as to keeping away the antis.

But it would help to make it mandatory to purchase the tag if drawn, and if they don't purchase it, make them pay double the tag cost , before they can apply for draws again.

Is the hunter safety course being enforced on Alberta relm? I don't think so.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by Deer Hunter

Buying a WC just to apply for draws is horse ****. Just up the price of the draw applications.

I have no issue with a modest increase in draw applications.
How about both, mandatory purchase of a wildlife cert. and an increase in draw fees, is that HS or a good thing?



It's been said, but is worth repeating, the mandatory wildlife certificate purchase before applying for the draw acts as an affidativ that the applicant is legally qualified to purchase hunting licences.

In addition to weeding out anti-hunters that have not taken the hunter training course, this also effects those with court ordered hunting prohibitions.

Now we just need F&W to make an example of any that fraudulently apply.


Most of the funds from wildlife certificate sales goes back to wildlife management. More money for wildlife should be a good thing.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Deer Hunter

Is the hunter safety course being enforced on Alberta relm? I don't think so.

If it isn't being enforced it should be, it wouldn't be hard to do, if you can't supply a number, and there is no record of you having held licenses previously, don't allow the draw .

[Deer Hunter]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

If it isn't being enforced it should be, it wouldn't be hard to do, if you can't supply a number, and there is no record of you having held licenses previously, don't allow the draw .

Having a license in the previous year(s) doesn't mean you have taken the course. That's the loophole. I say I've hunted in Ontario. So I don't need to take the course. So they can't really enforce it without a ton of investigation. So they don't.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by Deer Hunter

Buying a WC just to apply for draws is horse ****. Just up the price of the draw applications.

Do both.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Deer Hunter

Having a license in the previous year(s) doesn't mean you have taken the course. That's the loophole. I say I've hunted in Ontario. So I don't need to take the course. So they can't really enforce it without a ton of investigation. So they don't.

You don't have to have taken the course, but they do have records back to when you had to hold a license to be exempt from the course. If you don't have a number, and the records don't show you having held a license long enough to be exempt, make the person submit proof , before allowing them to apply for draws.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by Deer Hunter

Having a license in the previous year(s) doesn't mean you have taken the course. That's the loophole. I say I've hunted in Ontario. So I don't need to take the course. So they can't really enforce it without a ton of investigation. So they don't.

It's not a loophole, it is a condition of meeting the requirements to purchase a wildlife cert. This began as a way to grandfather in older hunters that began hunting well before these courses ever existed or were mandated. You know that....

As most jurisdictions now require a hunter ed course to be eligible to receive a licence, there is little option for a new hunter to avoid taking the course.


F&W certainly could enforce the requirement. Heck, they could even investigate a random sample of the applicants, see what the fraudulent claim is....

But, I'd rather F&W focus their attention elsewhere.
Maybe RELM should be responsible for qualifying hunter applications, after all they are making a good profit from this program.

[whitetail Junkie]

Dont think the WC upfront purchase will do much however like others mentioned charging a credit card if drawn would be a great solution...I have money to burn when it comes to hunting however I pay more than my share of taxes and see increased licence fees nothing more than a tax increase.

[dave99]

I applaud the WC purchase as a step in the right direction.

I would add (as many have mentioned):

- increase to $10 per draw application
- mandatory billing of credit card for the full license cost once a person is awarded a draw
- tougher screening of completion of Hunter’s Ed course, if needed

Also, I do not view the chronic 999ers as a problem to the system, as they continue to pay into the application system, as well as now through the WC purchase. Their banked priorities may scare us, when we compare them to our own (often lesser) priorities, but I fail to understand how by pouring money into conservation they would be a drain on the system.


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[CNP]

Go one step further by paying for the license at the same time as applying for the draw. If any hunter is committed to hunting for a species that they enter into the draw for they must be ready to accept the price of the license.

The idea of increasing fees should not be to discourage resident hunters by pricing them out of the tradition of hunting. Lets keep hunters honest and at the same time recognize that hunting should be something that could be undertaken by a person of modest means.

1. Do not change draw application fee.

2. Do not change license fees for residents (raise fees for NR).

3. Add charge for license at the time of draw application. No license charge for priority only draw.

4. License fee refunded automatically only if unsuccessful or draw application changed prior to cut off date.

5. Draw application charges would look like:

Antlered Moose draw application $3.65
Antlered Moose License fee $44.95
GST $2.43
Total Order $51.03

6. Add another $28.22 (plus $1.41 GST) on top of $51.03 and the total cost of entering into this one draw comes in at $80.66

[dave99]

Originally Posted by CNP

Go one step further by paying for the license at the same time as applying for the draw. If any hunter is committed to hunting for a species that they enter into the draw for they must be ready to accept the price of the license.

The idea of increasing fees should not be to discourage resident hunters by pricing them out of the tradition of hunting. Lets keep hunters honest and at the same time recognize that hunting should be something that could be undertaken by a person of modest means.

1. Do not change draw application fee.

2. Do not change license fees for residents (raise fees for NR).

3. Add charge for license at the time of draw application. No license charge for priority only draw.

4. License fee refunded automatically only if unsuccessful or draw application changed prior to cut off date.

5. Draw application charges would look like:

Antlered Moose draw application $3.65
Antlered Moose License fee $44.95
GST $2.43
Total Order $51.03

6. Add another $28.22 (plus $1.41 GST) on top of $51.03 and the total cost of entering into this one draw comes in at $80.66

CNP, seems pretty reasonable to me. I could get behind that.


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[RZR]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

I have no issue with a modest increase in draw applications.
How about both, mandatory purchase of a wildlife cert. and an increase in draw fees, is that HS or a good thing?



It's been said, but is worth repeating, the mandatory wildlife certificate purchase before applying for the draw acts as an affidativ that the applicant is legally qualified to purchase hunting licences.

In addition to weeding out anti-hunters that have not taken the hunter training course, this also effects those with court ordered hunting prohibitions.

Now we just need F&W to make an example of any that fraudulently apply.


Most of the funds from wildlife certificate sales goes back to wildlife management. More money for wildlife should be a good thing.

Do you have proof the anti hunters are applying for all these tags?

[RZR]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

You obviously don’t think before you talk
Being able to only apply for 2-3 draws still leaves the system open To be exploited very easily

You must be afraid everyone will apply for the same tags you want. You seem to think that buying the WC will ease the priorities with all the anti hunters who were supposedly applying before. Why is it that everyone thinks they have to have 15 different tags. You do realize that one can still buy a general whitetail, bear, elk,and sheep tag. So what would be wrong with only holding 1 special draw tag. Get rid of all nonresident tags and if you have no proof you were a resident for 5 yrs it should be a no go as well. Why is it that Saskatchewan doesn’t have this problem that everyone is crying about, or does Saskatchewan have an issue as well.

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by RZR

You must be afraid everyone will apply for the same tags you want. You seem to think that buying the WC will ease the priorities with all the anti hunters who were supposedly applying before. Why is it that everyone thinks they have to have 15 different tags. You do realize that one can still buy a general whitetail, bear, elk,and sheep tag. So what would be wrong with only holding 1 special draw tag. Get rid of all nonresident tags and if you have no proof you were a resident for 5 yrs it should be a no go as well. Why is it that Saskatchewan doesn’t have this problem that everyone is crying about, or does Saskatchewan have an issue as well.

I've structured my draw strategy for the last 20 years for 1-2 draws a year. Only allowing people to apply for 2-3 draws a season doesn't allow for any kind of planning for future hunts. The "smart people" know how to exploit this system so that they are hunting 3-4 times more often than everyone else. The only way to reduce people from exploiting the system is to increase the price. Weather its anti's, non residents, non hunting friends etc. Its wouldn't take much of an increase to weed these people out.

Whats the population of saskatchewan? What the population of alberta?
Probably answers your question right there...

You need to look around and see what other states and provinces have done. What works, and what doesnt.
I can tell you the only reason I dont apply in certain places is because of cost
100% the only reason

[RZR]

Once again do you have proof it’s antis, nonresident, non-hunting friends, etc that are causing the problems with the draws. It sounds like you need to have it an elitists sport. Let’s make it where people who live on a fixed income who like to get out once in while to hunt, can’t afford to do that. I plan my hunts after I get the tag and it’s worked for the last 35 yrs. and the draws used to be lottery draws. Nothing is a guarantee in life!

[Red Bullets]

Just a thought...

Maybe hunters on private lands requiring draws should have to produce a written permission or title for particular lands they are going to hunt to be able to apply for the draw.

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by RZR

Once again do you have proof it’s antis, nonresident, non-hunting friends, etc that are causing the problems with the draws. It sounds like you need to have it an elitists sport. Let’s make it where people who live on a fixed income who like to get out once in while to hunt, can’t afford to do that. I plan my hunts after I get the tag and it’s worked for the last 35 yrs. and the draws used to be lottery draws. Nothing is a guarantee in life!

How does raising the fees for draws to let’s say $20 make it elitist?
How about if you can’t afford the $20 bucks to enter, for let’s say, a bighorn or a mountain goat tag. We can be sure that you couldn’t afford to go if your picked. So we are eliminated tags being drawn and wasted

FYI what’s wrong with people on a fixed income hunting deer? There’s supplemental tags which are cheap too. Or antlerless mule deer. Maybe they shouldn’t be entering 15 different draws if they can’t afford to go if they are selected? Since $20 is a deal breaker 🤷*♂️

[RZR]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

I can tell you the only reason I dont apply in certain places is because of cost
100% the only reason

If you got rid of the picture beside your user name, might make this statement a little more believable.

[RZR]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

How does raising the fees for draws to let’s say $20 make it elitist?
How about if you can’t afford the $20 bucks to enter, for let’s say, a bighorn or a mountain goat tag. We can be sure that you couldn’t afford to go if your picked. So we are eliminated tags being drawn and wasted

FYI what’s wrong with people on a fixed income hunting deer? There’s supplemental tags which are cheap too. Or antlerless mule deer. Maybe they shouldn’t be entering 15 different draws if they can’t afford to go if they are selected? Since $20 is a deal breaker 🤷*♂️

First off, why in God’s green earth would a apply for a bighorn tag when I could go and buy a tag over the counter. What’s wrong with fixed incomers building a priority so they can enjoy a draw tag once in awhile. Who cares if they pull one draw tag a year. Now your trying to be a dictator in telling them what they can and can’t do! It’s all about greed my friend

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by RZR

First off, why in God’s green earth would a apply for a bighorn tag when I could go and buy a tag over the counter. What’s wrong with fixed incomers building a priority so they can enjoy a draw tag once in awhile. Who cares if they pull one draw tag a year. Now your trying to be a dictator in telling them what they can and can’t do! It’s all about greed my friend

I now know what it would be like to have a debate with Justin Trudeau
In one ear, right out the other
🤦*♂️

[crazy_davey]

Originally Posted by RZR

Some have more money then brains! All they have to do is get rid of nonresident tags and this would open up more tags, or reduce how many draws your allowed to enter per year to 2 or 3 draws.

Originally Posted by Deer Hunter

Buying a WC just to apply for draws is horse ****. Just up the price of the draw applications.

Well, the good thing is your opinions don’t matter, it’s done. Buy your WC, which you would have done anyways and enter your draws, just like always.

Pee and moan all you want, it’s done, suck it up.

I like the change, it’s a step in the right direction. Now increase the price of a draw application and make people buy the tag as soon as it is awarded.

[tbrown]

Originally Posted by RZR

You must be afraid everyone will apply for the same tags you want. You seem to think that buying the WC will ease the priorities with all the anti hunters who were supposedly applying before. Why is it that everyone thinks they have to have 15 different tags. You do realize that one can still buy a general whitetail, bear, elk,and sheep tag. So what would be wrong with only holding 1 special draw tag. Get rid of all nonresident tags and if you have no proof you were a resident for 5 yrs it should be a no go as well. Why is it that Saskatchewan doesn’t have this problem that everyone is crying about, or does Saskatchewan have an issue as well.

Saskatchewan is also having an issue with increased wait times. They recently changed the draw structure a bit to reduce the number of people in the lottery pool. Now it's a 4 year wait before you are entered into Super A - which is basically the lottery pool (depending on the tag). Then if you don't get drawn in the super A pool for 10 years then you are put into a legacy which basically guarantees you a tag. But that is a 15 year wait.

Saskatchewan has tighter resident requirements and give out way less non resident tags, and they are having the same issue.

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[heretohunt]

I think we are on the right track with buying the wildlife certificate. It seems that increasing the cost to draw would not hurt a lot of people but there would be some real hunters that would be hurt including families and youth hunters and seniors. Don’t assume that every youth hunters rich dad is paying for everything.
I do agree that either a credit card number should be on file to pay once the tag has been drawn or if it’s not paid for within a month it is put back into the pool and the next person is drawn. This should eliminate some people that aren’t going to hunt.
If anti-hunters are putting in for the draws and not taking them at least they will have to pay a reasonable amount of money to do it. I have to assume that currently the people in charge of the draw know how many tags are not getting bought each year and therefore adjust the amount of tags available. Maybe they’re also getting the information they need from the mandatory hunt survey This way the anti-hunters are just donating to wildlife and it’s about time. I wish they would all do that. For the guys that are just collecting priority points until they are too old to hunt, I think we owe them all a big thank you.
For those that want a significant increase in draw costs, perhaps there can be a button where you can donate. Then you could screenshot your donation and use it for virtue signaling.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by RZR

Do you have proof the anti hunters are applying for all these tags?

All these tags?


I don't think anyone has proof that anti-hunters are applying in the Alberta draw to any great extent.
I suspect the percentage is much less than 1% of draws.

Now if we had a grizzly draw, you can bet that the anti-hunting community would be promoting applying for the draw to "save a bear".
This has been proven to happen in other jurisdictions.

I suspect that many more hunters than anti-hunters are purposefully drawing tags and burning them to save a cow, doe or ewe.
Hunters have proudly claimed or promoted to do this here on AO quite frequently....

Originally Posted by RZR

Some have more money then brains! All they have to do is get rid of nonresident tags and this would open up more tags, or reduce how many draws your allowed to enter per year to 2 or 3 draws.

Do you have proof of how many Nonresidents draw licences are issued?
If NR were eliminated from the draw...
What positive effect will this have on the resident applications?
What negative effect will this have the hunting community as a whole in Interprovincial reciprocal access and support for local concerns?
Is the gain worth the cost?



How will hunting be able to retain its position as the main management tool of ungulates if people were limited to 2-3 draws per year?
There simply are not enough Alberta hunters to look after the myriad of localized population management requirements if people are limited to just a couple of draws.


Maintaining a strong connected hunting community and our role in Wildlife management is more important to me than a few people bitching that they can't get their favorite trophy draw every couple of years.

[Lefty-Canuck]

This is a “change” I would like to see....

Change the current system for hunter hosted scenario where both the Host and the Non-Resident Hosted Hunter are required to hold their own tag. Implement a “partner tag” scenario for ALL hosted hunters. Where only the Resident host need to apply for the draw, and upon success they can designate one (1) Hosted Hunter per draw tag (maintain current species limitations). They hunt as a “partner” under current rules where they both “hunt as one” adhering to current rules listed under the Moose Partner Tag specifications. No “party” hunting allowed.

Currently the opportunity for individual hunters to pursue a given species matches the exact number of tags allocated. Using a “partner” tag system for the Hunter Host system effectively DOUBLES the OPPORTUNITY for hunters to pursue specific species. Example: 40 tags issued (20 resident hunters and 20 hosted hunters, each MUST have their own tag) 40 hunters in the field. My idea, 40 tags issued and 40 “partners” 80 hunters in the field... twice as many people have the “opportunity” to hunt.

Resident hunters from Alberta who want to hunt with a friend or family member from out of province should have no issues with using their drawn tag to assist their friend or family member with pursuing a species they may not otherwise have a chance to. Many times in the case of moose or elk, only one tag is filled between the two hunters anyway, leaving an unfilled tag and potentially the opportunity for two (2) other hunters to be in the field if this proposal is accepted.

This proposal allows the OPPORTUNITY for more hunters to experience what Alberta has to offer while maintaining the harvest goals by keeping the tag allocations the same.

Just an idea...

LC

[Deer Hunter]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

This is a “change” I would like to see....

Change the current system for hunter hosted scenario where both the Host and the Non-Resident Hosted Hunter are required to hold their own tag. Implement a “partner tag” scenario for ALL hosted hunters. Where only the Resident host need to apply for the draw, and upon success they can designate one (1) Hosted Hunter per draw tag (maintain current species limitations). They hunt as a “partner” under current rules where they both “hunt as one” adhering to current rules listed under the Moose Partner Tag specifications.

Currently the opportunity for individual hunters to pursue a given species matches the exact number of tags allocated. Using a “partner” tag system for the Hunter Host system effectively DOUBLES the OPPORTUNITY for hunters to pursue specific species. Example: 40 tags issued (20 resident hunters and 20 hosted hunters, each MUST have their own tag) 40 hunters in the field. My idea, 40 tags issued and 40 “partners” 80 hunters in the field... twice as many people have the “opportunity” to hunt.

Resident hunters from Alberta who want to hunt with a friend or family member from out of province should have no issues with using their drawn tag to assist their friend or family member with pursuing a species they may not otherwise have a chance to. Many times in the case of moose or elk, only one tag is filled between the two hunters anyway, leaving an unfilled tag and potentially the opportunity for two (2) other hunters to be in the field if this proposal is accepted.

This proposal allows the OPPORTUNITY for more hunters to experience what Alberta has to offer while maintaining the harvest goals by keeping the tag allocations the same.

Just an idea...

LC

So I can partner up with a non resident but I can't with a resident?

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

This is a “change” I would like to see....

Change the current system for hunter hosted scenario where both the Host and the Non-Resident Hosted Hunter are required to hold their own tag. Implement a “partner tag” scenario for ALL hosted hunters. Where only the Resident host need to apply for the draw, and upon success they can designate one (1) Hosted Hunter per draw tag (maintain current species limitations). They hunt as a “partner” under current rules where they both “hunt as one” adhering to current rules listed under the Moose Partner Tag specifications. No “party” hunting allowed.

Currently the opportunity for individual hunters to pursue a given species matches the exact number of tags allocated. Using a “partner” tag system for the Hunter Host system effectively DOUBLES the OPPORTUNITY for hunters to pursue specific species. Example: 40 tags issued (20 resident hunters and 20 hosted hunters, each MUST have their own tag) 40 hunters in the field. My idea, 40 tags issued and 40 “partners” 80 hunters in the field... twice as many people have the “opportunity” to hunt.

Resident hunters from Alberta who want to hunt with a friend or family member from out of province should have no issues with using their drawn tag to assist their friend or family member with pursuing a species they may not otherwise have a chance to. Many times in the case of moose or elk, only one tag is filled between the two hunters anyway, leaving an unfilled tag and potentially the opportunity for two (2) other hunters to be in the field if this proposal is accepted.

This proposal allows the OPPORTUNITY for more hunters to experience what Alberta has to offer while maintaining the harvest goals by keeping the tag allocations the same.

Just an idea...

LC

This isn't increasing opportunity.
This trades "opportunity".
It adds the element of partner tags while eliminating the opportunity for a NR to hold an individual tag.


If you want to actually Increase opportunity, allow NRs to hold an individual draw tag, and add the partner tag allowance, which could be applied in both directions where a NR or a Resident can add a Resident or NR partner.

[Deer Hunter]

Resident opportunity is what we need to increase. Not non resident opportunity.

[trailraat]

The verification of residency status and wildlife training courses on Alberta RELM is egregious. It should not be self reported and updated. I could put whatever I wanted to in there and it would make no difference. I do agree that their should be a limited amount of time to purchase tags. If that tag is not purchased by say July 30 the original drawees priority should be removed and the tag should go back and be re-drawn a second time. If it is still not purchased by August 15 by the second drawee then it should be moved to the undersubscribed portion where it goes to the quickest of the draw. I highly doubt many tags would make it to the second portion.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by Deer Hunter

Resident opportunity is what we need to increase. Not non resident opportunity.

Well, we sure are not going to do that by manipulating the draw system.

All this banter on draw changes is just shuffling the deck.
None of this changes how many cards there are.

The only way to truly increase resident opportunity is to demand/create action that improve our harvestable wildlife populations.


But hey, let's keep pretending that manipulating the draw grows animals that we can hunt....