Grouping size

[sir_charlie]

Hi All,

I know this will vary based on individual skill levels, ethics, confidence, wind conditions etc. - so not looking to turn this into a philosophical conversation - curious though what the range is out there for grouping size needed for you to feel confident to take a shot at a given range with your bow? Let’s assume standard conditions apply in all cases.

Eg. Would you hesitate to take a shot at 40 yards if your consistently shooting 6 inch groupings? 3 inch groupings?

[brendan's dad]

I don't think there is any steadfast rule, but commonly, people will try to maintain 1 inch per 10 yards.

20 yards = 2 inch group
30 yards = 3 inch group
40 yards = 4 inch group

and so on....

But this is normally standing on level ground, on a non living target, with no pressure.

So if you factor in real hunting situations, those groups are going to open up and will probably double. The vitals of a deer are approx. 8 inches. So if you are consistently shooting 4 inch groups at 40 yards during practice, I personally would set my max hunting distance for deer at 40 yards.

Actually that is what my max distance is set at right now.

I am lucky that I live on an acreage and can shoot anytime I want. In August I usually start routine involving a single rifle target taped to a target bag. From a distance of 35 to 45 yards, I will shoot 1 arrow at this target at the start of a practice session; I will also throw in the odd kneeling shot. After doing this 10 or 15 times, I will have a fairly good idea of what my hunting grouping looks like. Normally you don't get a bunch of warm up shots in the tree stand or blind.

[Scottmisfits]

I’m just getting back in to archery after a couple year, unplanned hiatus. When I was shooting lots, I was shooting at 80 yards. I was grouping in to a softball at that distance. I was shooting that far, strictly for practice, so I could shoot 40 to 50 yards. Even at that, 50 yards is a long shot.
What was said above, I think that’s a pretty good guide.

[calgarychef]

Once you can’t hit a pie plate 100% of the time you’ve gone too far.

[jcrayford]

Originally Posted by calgarychef

Once you can’t hit a pie plate 100% of the time you’ve gone too far.

^ A pie plate is about 8" in diameter, matching the kill zone on a deer. While I totally agree with Chef's statement above, I'd add that if you can't hit that pie plate after doing 30 jumping jacks or push ups (getting the heart rate up to simulate a live animal coming in) that would be your maximum hunting range.

With enough practice, most people will hit that 8" diameter target at ranges far beyond hunting conditions while relaxed target shooting. But tell those same people to get their heart rate up, just like it will naturally do when a live animal is in front of your arrow and I can *almost* guarantee that most of those people will miss at those same "far beyond" ranges. I know that I would.

There was a challenge on AO a couple of years ago that went something like that.... Figure out where the max range you can "normally" punch into an 8" circle then challenge yourself by getting the 'ole cardio going at a good rate and try and hit that same circle. I never was able to and learned where my max range is.....

J.

[3blade]

I’m going to suggest your methodology is well intentioned but incorrect. Here’s how I do it:

You set up a 3D target (not a bullseye, no aiming point either) at what you think is your max range, and the first arrow has to go into a 4 inch circle in the center of the vitals. If it does, longer next time. If not, shorter. No groups in hunting.

4 inches is 1/2 of the standard 8 inch vitals on a whitetail. Gives you room for error, game movement, wind etc. IMO cutting the 8 inch line in target setting isn’t near acceptable.

I will take a few practice shots before heading out for an evening hunt, but I take care to set it up exactly as I will be hunting if seated/elevated/etc. and not burn out my muscles. 5-10 shots max. Same thing on a travel hunt, keep a target in camp and shoot a few every day. How far I will actually shoot depends on the conditions and how I feel about the sight picture at the time

Try to keep the exercise thing as close to real as possible. Wear your gear. Sprint over a hill, jump some deadfall, sneak or crawl along being super quiet and tensed up for 200 yards. I don’t do a lot of pushups when hunting, so I don’t see the need to in practice. That’s for the gym which is also important

A 3D course with observers/pressure is pretty close, with some hiking in between targets if that resembles your hunt. But the best is mental training, learning to consciously recognize and control your physiology, emotions and responses.

You will perform in the field exactly how you practice at home. Take it seriously, do everything you can to make it real.

[Blockcaver]

There are some very good comments above. I am lucky to have a fairly flat range to the Morrell bag target that goes +100 yds. It has taught me a lot about shooting a bow accurately on flat ground. Even better...the back side of the target allows shots down a -28* slope out as far as 100 yds (could go further but no need). My accuracy drops off shooting down the steep slope a lot quicker than on the flat that is for sure.

Wind drift of the arrow and shooting in the wind are another learning experience!

Many factors to consider on where to cap your max hunting range. Mine is variable with weather conditions, size and species of critter, vegetation both from an arrow deflection perspective as well as blood trailing, time of day, too many things to list them all.

Good luck!

[calgarychef]

Originally Posted by Blockcaver

There are some very good comments above. I am lucky to have a fairly flat range to the Morrell bag target that goes +100 yds. It has taught me a lot about shooting a bow accurately on flat ground. Even better...the back side of the target allows shots down a -28* slope out as far as 100 yds (could go further but no need). My accuracy drops off shooting down the steep slope a lot quicker than on the flat that is for sure.

Wind drift of the arrow and shooting in the wind are another learning experience!

Many factors to consider on where to cap your max hunting range. Mine is variable with weather conditions, size and species of critter, vegetation both from an arrow deflection perspective as well as blood trailing, time of day, too many things to list them all.

Good luck!

It’s really fun shooting in those conditions. Shooting in the bush will quickly reinforce much about arrow trajectory.

[Arrowhead]

I regularly practice out to 80 yards on targets but it would be a pretty rare circumstance where I'd take a shot at a (usually) nervous WT at 40 yards. It's incredible how far they can move/flinch when they hear the release. In my view 40 yards is a high risk shot on a WT in most situations. That said, in the open country on a non flinching animal like an antelope I'm ok with substantially longer shots. It depends on the circumstances and the game animal how far I consider my maximum range to be.

And to me, hunting archery practice means practice with the hunting broadheads I'm planning to use in hunting season. Not field points. In my humble opinion most bowhunters do not practice enough with their broadheads.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by Arrowhead

And to me, hunting archery practice means practice with the hunting broadheads I'm planning to use in hunting season. Not field points. In my humble opinion most bowhunters do not practice enough with their broadheads.

Agree, every single arrow in my quiver is tuned to hit a 4” dot at 80 yards. Not necessarily for a first shot but if I need a follow up I need to know it’s tuned and I can make the shot. I had a follow up at 87 yards a couple years back and made it count.

LC

[Stinky Buffalo]

Originally Posted by Arrowhead

Achery practice means practice with the hunting broadheads I'm planning to use in hunting season. Not field points. In my humble opinion most bowhunters do not practice enough with their broadheads.

That's very true. That being said, not a lot of ranges allow the use of broadheads, and with many hunters living in the city, the opportunity to practice with broadheads at real-world distances makes it more challenging.

Not making excuses here, just saying it's more difficult for some.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by Stinky Buffalo

That's very true. That being said, not a lot of ranges allow the use of broadheads, and with many hunters living in the city, the opportunity to practice with broadheads at real-world distances makes it more challenging.

Not making excuses here, just saying it's more difficult for some.

Thankfully, SPFGA will let you use them if you bring your own target.

It’s amazing how many people shoot target points all year, then just screw on a new broadhead and go hunting…. Never testing the tune of the broadhead to the arrow or the bow.

I bareshaft tune my bow to a minimum of 20 yards, paying attention to the flight and the angle of entry into the target. A bareshaft behaves similarly to a fletched shaft with a fixed blade broadhead. So by shooting a bareshaft you can partially tune your bow without using a Broadhead.

LC

[Stinky Buffalo]

Excellent advice, Lefty.

[russ]

Originally Posted by sir_charlie

Hi All,

I know this will vary based on individual skill levels, ethics, confidence, wind conditions etc. - so not looking to turn this into a philosophical conversation - curious though what the range is out there for grouping size needed for you to feel confident to take a shot at a given range with your bow? Let’s assume standard conditions apply in all cases.

Eg. Would you hesitate to take a shot at 40 yards if your consistently shooting 6 inch groupings? 3 inch groupings?

What ever it is, divide by 4 and tell everyone here, that's your average @ 100 yds. Nevermind that it's better than world record breaking by a factor of at least 10.

[bucksnbears]

I've made too m any bad shots at under 20 yards.
No interest in long pokes.

[Gboe8]

I always go for a max 6 inch group at 60 yards which is my max on elk and moose. Try and keep deer 40 or under and try and keep my group around 3 inches. I find archery hunting a major mental game if I’m not shooting tight groups it gets in my head well hunting. I only shoot broad heads I use a hay bale to shoot in to. I haven’t shot a field point in about four years. But I live in the country and have the space to do it.

[reddeerhunter]

Originally Posted by bucksnbears

I've made too m any bad shots at under 20 yards.
No interest in long pokes.

Wise hunter here.


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