Dilemma

[wthby]

So last night the wife and I watched the movie "Shooter". She is now pumped up to become the ultimate assasin sniper type chick. Works for me. Now that she is on this stint I need to buy a gun before she looses intrest.

Have been looking seriously at either the .204 or the 22-250. The 22-250 looks like it only gives up a bit compared to the 204 basis Hornady factory ammo. The bullets bellow are not moly coated so there coul be some barrel life effects but otherwise performace is very similar.

Secondly I really like the looks of http://www.savagearms.com/12vss.htm
While as my selections for the .204 appear to be more standard type rifle approach.

What do you all think?



204 RUGER 40 GR V-MAX
Velocity (fps) / Energy (ft-lbs)
Muzzle 100 yd 200 yd 300 yd 400 yd 500 yd
3900/1351 3482/1077 3103/855 2755/674 2433/526 2133/404

Trajectory (inches)
Muzzle 100 yd 200 yd 300 yd 400 yd 500 yd
-1.5 0.7 0.00 -4.3 -13.2 -28.1

.22-250 Rem., 40 gr. V-MAX
Velocity (fps) / Energy (ft-lbs)
Muzzle 100 yd 200 yd 300 yd 400 yd 500 yd
4150/1529 3553/1121 3032/816 2568/585 2148/410 1771/278

Trajectory (inches)
Muzzle 100 yd 200 yd 300 yd 400 yd 500 yd
-1.50 0.60 0.00 -4.50 -14.20 -31.70

22-250 REM 50 GR V-MAX
Velocity (fps) / Energy (ft-lbs)
Muzzle 100 yd 200 yd 300 yd 400 yd 500 yd
3800/1603 3339/1238 2925/949 2546/720 2198/536 1878/392

Trajectory (inches)
Muzzle 100 yd 200 yd 300 yd 400 yd 500 yd
-1.5 0.8 0.00 -4.9 -15.2 -32.8


wthby

What type of shooting does she want to do. If there's any interest in hunting at all, why not look at a .25-06? Legal for big game and an awesome varmint calibre and very low recoil.

Of the two you listed, I only have experience with the 22-250 but think they would both be good choices. My 22-250 is hands down the most accurate rifle I own. Not sure I could pull of some of the shots that Mark did but it is a shooter. Great movie btw. Saw it on an airplane on the way to Toronto.

[roger]

does you guys plan on hunting or just whackin paper, pumpkins and the odd predator??

i would say a 243 wsm or equivelent would allow a casual shooter the ability to hunt legally
or like sheep suggested the 2506

[sdeviation]

WELL if she wants to be the ultimate u better look at one of these!!!
http://demigodllc.com/photo/TRG-42/?...0_1557_img.jpg

im thinkin u mite enjoy it also if she lets u shoot it
chambered in 338 lapua ,,,lol

[Scott N]

Like the other guys have said, I would say your choice depends on what you want to use it for. Judging by your choices mentioned, I guess big game won't be on the menu?

I also think that the 22/250 has better down range ballistics when compared to the 204 if you use heavier bullets. The 22/250 case has quite a bit more powder capacity that the 204. The 204 would have lighter recoil, and while that might sound like something that doesn't matter with small calibres, you would likely be able to "spot" your shots with the 204 (for shooting varmints). The 22/250 has just enough recoil that often you can't see where your shots are hitting. Also, I think that comparing "paper" ballistics is not really the best way to choose a rifle because of all the different bullets available.

If you plan on using the rifle for mostly target shooting, a 223 is great choice because of the cheap ammo available.

[nube]

Same as what Scott M said.

[rugatika]

http://www.edbrown.com/cgi-bin/htmlo...90620129451031

[slopeshunter]

My only thought with the 12vss is that if you're gonna be doing some walking with it. At 11.25lbs it might get to be a bit of a heavy gun.

[wthby]

thanks guys,

i have always wanted a TRG-42 in the Lapua. This is on the list of things to buy. But for now she will only be shooting paper and gophers at best. Gonna take some time before I has a heart beat. (Which is ok with me).

So.... Target shooting mostly, doesnt' have to be legal for big game. Likely gonna shoot gophers with it. 11.25lbs will only make you arm stronger. Almost guaranteed there is gonna be a bi-pod involved.

Does this help narrow down the suggestions. I of course also have some ideas but like to keep the cost of the "varmit" rig under the price of my hunting rifle.

wthby

Keeping in mind your signature (one shot...one kill), how about a T/C Encore in 22-250. Great shooting rifle and the option of a barrel change down the road if her interest grows. If she's small in stature, the bantam stock is about an inch and half shorter making it a great fit for smaller women and kids.

[The Ferguson Rifleman]

The mighty sheep hunter has the best advice for you! The 25-06 is one of the most under-appreciated rounds out there; and unless you are gonna pump high volumes of rounds through it, you have everything the smaller bores have plus an excellent deer round too!

My sniper rifle is the Ruger No.1 with the bull barrel on it. I bought mine used for around $550 and then went dumpster diving in the bar-goon bin and came up with a used set of dies for it for 15 bucks. That rifle would shoot the nosler ballistic tips into .5~.75 MOA all day long, and dump deer like they were pole axed. It isn't as cool looking as those beauties you are looking at though. Like its owner, mine is an elegant, handsome piece of work that will never let you down.

Unfortunately, after burning up at least 20 lbs. of IMR4350 in it....she has washed out. Velocities have fallen off and the groups have opened up a bit. She is now strictly a deer gun. I really miss it on the range though. No recoil and accuracy out the wazoo.

I suppose I should qualify all that with this caveat though...I have heard some of the real snipers out there say that getting the No.1 to shoot like that can be really difficult sometimes.

Hmpff! Perhaps it is time for me to seek the council of the foolish firearm folk on another thread!

[wthby]

Yeah the T/C does look interesting. Course I would probably have to buy two of them. One for me and one for her... otherwise she would never get a chance to use it. from what i can see her is that although the 204 is the new kid on the block the 22-250 still holds strong with very subtle diffrences.

[ABDUKNUT]

Go with the .243 Winchester...The .243 has so many advantages over the .22's, especially in the longer ranges, and is fully adequate for deer and pronghorns and the like.

I used to shoot a Rem 40X in 6mm/.284, and have loved the .244's ever since. The rifle weighed 16 lbs, and from prone position on the bipid, anything under 400 yds was too easy.

You can find a decent rifle from Savage, Remington or Tikka.

The reasons the .25-'06 is underappreciated are many... It's got to be the epitome of over-bore. All the recoil, powder and noise of the .30'06 and the ballistics of the .243!

[wapiti11]

ABDUKNUT;
I agree with your assessment 100%. The 25-06 is a loud powder hog that eats barrels. I would go to the short action 308 based cartridges such as the 243 or 7mm-08 and you will never look back.
wapiti11

The 25-6 is 350+ feet per second faster at the muzzle than the 243...definitely not the same ballistics and having shot both extensively, I can attest that the recoil of the .25-06 is considerably less than that of the .30-06. 50-70 less grains of bullet weight do make for considerably less recoil. It burns powder but it takes powder to get that speed.

[Dick284]

Having shot a 25'06 for some 10 years now, and as many can attest I play no pansy in the load develpoment department.
Every load that's gone through that rifle have been top end with the exception of ones shot in load development.
I used Bushrat's borescope on her last winter and the throat looks a hell of a lot better than his 257WHTBY with 150 rounds through it. It shows a bit of wear, and a hint of fire cracking but a whole lot better than was expected for having close to 1500 high intensity loads pushed through her.
The key for longer bearrel life is keeping it cool and staying away from the Washing Machine Gun Charlie behavior.
If your just looking for a good shooter and want to stay on budget, grab a .223 Remington, they are cheap to shoot and much easier on everthing including barrel throats. They will shoot just as far and just as accuratly as any other varmint caliber out there, ya just gotta work at it.

[ABDUKNUT]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

...It burns powder but it takes powder to get that speed.

That's where I disagree... I DOES NOT take a .30-06 case full of powder to get speed from a varmint/marginal big game bullet. And, it doesn't take a 110 grain bullet to kill a coyote.

If your dead set on killing varmints, Speed + Frangible (but accurate) bullets is the equation you need. You can find this in much smaller, more friendly packages anywhere between .17 and .244.

My buddy's .243 Win will shoot 55g Vmax just a blonde c-hair over 4000fps, and you can watch the point of impact through the scope at 10X.
Who says the .25-06 is faster?
AND it's a short action, very efficient, VERY little recoil and tame muzzle blast.

marginal big game bullet.

I can show you pictures of a lot of dead sheep, deer and antelope that will disagree!

[ABDUKNUT]

I dont doubt the .25-06 is an adequate killer, I meant 'marginal big game', as in ALL big game, up to and including bear elk moose, exotics etc.
I also can show you pictures of herds of deer killed with the .243...

But they are both 'marginal' for big game, I dont care who you ask.

They both fit in to niche somewhere between the .22's and the .270/30-06's, and in this niche my favorite and IMHO most usefull and friendly cartridge is the .243!

But they are both 'marginal' for big game, I dont care who you ask.

I can think of a dozen 25-06 shooters that I know that would strongly disagree. While not ideal for elk and moose it is more than adequate for deer-sized game...as is the 243. A calibre doesn't have to be adequate for everything from duiker to elephant to be considered a big game cartridge. The .25-06 and .243 are well suited to a wide variety of big game. Just as you don't play golf with one club...there's no need to hunt with only one calibre. If I'm not packing my muzzleloader or bow on a sheep mountain you can bet your last dollar I'm packing my .25-06 as are a number of other very serious sheep hunters that I know. If I'm hunting elk or moose, it will likely be the .300 magnum. The original question here wasn't about the perfect all round big game cartridge. If it was, I wouldn't have brought up the .25-06.

The .25-06 has more velocity than the .243 and serves my needs better but nothing wrong with the .243 either in the right hands when used in the right big game situations.

[Stinky Coyote]

She needs two guns imo. A .204 and a 25-06.

The .204 is one of the funnest calibers to shoot imo. Its like the redheaded stepchild offspring of the .223 and .22-250. The trajectory of .22-250, the hitting power of a .223 and the best part is....YOU GET TO WATCH IMPACTS IN THE SCOPE! Not a big deal on paper i know but....when you start to play at range or shooting coyotes/gophers/mole hills etc. then it is super fun and you build long range confidence very quickly. All the ones i've shot so far prefered the 32 gr v-max over the 40 grain...like 1/2 to 3/4 moa for 32 gr and 1 1/4 moa with 40 gr shooting back to back fyi. Not that 1 1/4 moa isn't accurate but hey...smaller is better.

The tikka varmint ss i had with the nice 4.5-14 lr scope with vh reticle was an awesome combo...couple k in gear though it shot factory 32 v-max 1/2 moa. I prefered a much lighter gun for coyote calling so i sold the rig but it was a dream to shoot...and heavy enough you could watch impacts at maximum magnification.

She needs 06 to hunt bigger critters though. My two cents.

p.s. my wifes gun is a youth model nef single shot in .243, she could shoot it all day and its plenty accurate, its had two shots at game and two instant kills, fits her good and the price is right for how much she uses it...the hunting thing didn't take so it will be there for when the boy is ready to start hunting things bigger than gophers

[Faststeel]

My first rifle was a 25-06 and although in the hands of an experienced rifle person the recoil, comparatively speaking is light. But to me as a new rifle shooter I was easily intimidated by its report. The gun I bought was the Stevens 200, a modest investment incase I didn't care for shooting a rifle. There is a thread on Gun nutz about all the stock painting that a number of guys have done to their 200's.
I too would recommend the 223, as a far less exp. alternative to 22-250 or 204, unless of course you currently reload? If you go the Stevens 200 route make sure you remove their so called pad and put on a limbsaver.
The new Savage rimfire with the thumbhole stock might be a good choice as well.
FS