Acquiring Black Powder

[Runewolf1973]

So apparently I require a PAL licence now to buy regular ol' black powder for my new flintlock rifle. Was just in The Sportman's Den and that is what they told me. Anyone know where in the Explosives Act or elsewhere it actually states this requirement? All I can find is that you must be over 18.

[Mr Hawken]

Just use your pal and buy the Powder. Sorry don't see the problem

[Runewolf1973]

Originally Posted by Mr Hawken

Just use your pal and buy the Powder. Sorry don't see the problem

I asked because I don't have a PAL license and never had the intention of getting one simply because I have zero interest in modern guns and you don't need a PAL to buy a flintlock gun.

[whiteout]

You don’t need a PAL, but you do need ID.

SOR-2013-211 sections 294 and 295

The seller is required by law to record who they sell to

[saskbooknut]

You don't need a PAL, it is just one means of ID that is acceptable. You do need to provide identity under the explosives act.

[Runewolf1973]

Originally Posted by whiteout

You don’t need a PAL, but you do need ID.

SOR-2013-211 sections 294 and 295

The seller is required by law to record who they sell to

That's exactly what I was looking for and I will show them at the store. Or I'll just take my business somewhere they actually know what they're talking about.

Thanks!

[Dick284]

Originally Posted by saskbooknut

You don't need a PAL, it is just one means of ID that is acceptable. You do need to provide identity under the explosives act.

Not actually correct.

note:Identification

294 (1) Before selling propellant powder to a buyer, the seller must require the buyer to establish their identity by providing

(a) a piece of identification, issued by the Government of Canada or a provincial, municipal or foreign government, that bears a photograph of the buyer; or

(b) two pieces of identification, each of which sets out the buyer’s name, at least one of which is issued by the Government of Canada or a provincial, municipal or foreign government and at least one of which sets out the buyer’s address.

Marginal note:Verification of identity

(2) If the buyer provides a piece of identification that bears a photograph, the seller must ensure, before selling the propellant powder, that the photograph is that of the buyer.

[petew]

Originally Posted by Dick284

Not actually correct.

note:Identification

294 (1) Before selling propellant powder to a buyer, the seller must require the buyer to establish their identity by providing

(a) a piece of identification, issued by the Government of Canada or a provincial, municipal or foreign government, that bears a photograph of the buyer; or

(b) two pieces of identification, each of which sets out the buyer’s name, at least one of which is issued by the Government of Canada or a provincial, municipal or foreign government and at least one of which sets out the buyer’s address.

Marginal note:Verification of identity

(2) If the buyer provides a piece of identification that bears a photograph, the seller must ensure, before selling the propellant powder, that the photograph is that of the buyer.

He is looking for Black Powder . Black Powder isn't a propellent, its an explosive. Different regs. for BP .

[Dick284]

Originally Posted by petew

He is looking for Black Powder . Black Powder isn't a propellent, its an explosive. Different regs. for BP .

I don’t think so.


c) P — propellant powder:

(i) P.1 — black powder and hazard category PE 1 black powder substitutes,

(ii) P.2 — smokeless powder and hazard category PE 3 black powder substitutes;


See black powder is sub catigory under propellant powder, therefore it must follow the rules for propelled to powders.


Further to this:
PART 14
Small Arms Cartridges, Propellant Powder and Percussion Caps
Marginal note:Overview

267 This Part authorizes the acquisition, storage and sale of small arms cartridges and the Footnote *manufacture of small arms cartridges and black powder cartouches. Division 1 sets out the rules for sellers and users of commercially manufactured small arms cartridges (type C.1). It also sets out rules for storing small arms cartridges that are manufactured under Division 2. Division 2 sets out the rules for sellers and users of propellant powder (type P) and percussion caps (also known as primer) (type C.3) and for manufacturers of small arms cartridges and black powder cartouches.

Return to footnote *Terms preceded by an asterisk are defined in section 6.
Marginal noteefinitions

268 (1) The following definitions apply in this Part.

black powder means an explosive classified as type P.1. (poudre noire)

propellant powder means black powder and smokeless powder. (poudre propulsive)

Black powder is a propellant powder.

http://laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/regula...e-33.html#h-95

[Full Curl Earl]

Because he’s not a Liberal government patsy, that’s why!

Originally Posted by Mr Hawken

Just use your pal and buy the Powder. Sorry don't see the problem

[Dean2]

Originally Posted by Dick284

Not actually correct.

note:Identification

294 (1) Before selling propellant powder to a buyer, the seller must require the buyer to establish their identity by providing

(a) a piece of identification, issued by the Government of Canada or a provincial, municipal or foreign government, that bears a photograph of the buyer; or

(b) two pieces of identification, each of which sets out the buyer’s name, at least one of which is issued by the Government of Canada or a provincial, municipal or foreign government and at least one of which sets out the buyer’s address.

Marginal note:Verification of identity

(2) If the buyer provides a piece of identification that bears a photograph, the seller must ensure, before selling the propellant powder, that the photograph is that of the buyer.

Dick

I read this three times and don't see the part that says he needs a PAL. What am I missing? Unless something got passed recently that I missed you don't need a PAL for smokeless or black powder, primers or bullets and brass, only for loaded ammo.

[Dick284]

Originally Posted by Dean2

Dick

I read this three times and don't see the part that says he needs a PAL. What am I missing? Unless something got passed recently that I missed you don't need a PAL for smokeless of black powder, primers or bullets and brass, only for loaded ammo.

He doesn’t need a PAL, nowhere did I say he did.

I was replying to Saskboot’s incorrect assertation about proof of identity.

[Dean2]

Originally Posted by Dick284

He doesn’t need a PAL, nowhere did I say he did.

I was replying to Saskboot’s incorrect assertation about identity proof.

Okay, guess what confused me is you quoted Saskbooknut and then said not true. His quote was spot on so I was reading yours wrongl All good though, as it appears we are talking about something we both agree with.

Long and short, need ID don't need PAL.

[Runewolf1973]

I just called down to Wolverine Sports and they confirmed what everyone here is saying. I don't need a PAL licence, I only need my ID for recording purposes.

[colroggal]

Originally Posted by Runewolf1973

I just called down to Wolverine Sports and they confirmed what everyone here is saying. I don't need a PAL licence, I only need my ID for recording purposes.

Exactly. In fact a PAL would not be valid for a single piece of id as it doesn't have an address on it - if you want to get technical about it

Colin

[whiteout]

Originally Posted by colroggal

Exactly. In fact a PAL would not be valid for a single piece of id as it doesn't have an address on it - if you want to get technical about it

Colin

If you want to get technical about it, the piece of identification presented doesn’t need an address on it if it has a photo.

The seller must record the buyers name and address OR their firearms license number if that is being used as ID

[Mulehahn]

Originally Posted by Dick284

Not actually correct.

note:Identification

294 (1) Before selling propellant powder to a buyer, the seller must require the buyer to establish their identity by providing

(a) a piece of identification, issued by the Government of Canada or a provincial, municipal or foreign government, that bears a photograph of the buyer; or

(b) two pieces of identification, each of which sets out the buyer’s name, at least one of which is issued by the Government of Canada or a provincial, municipal or foreign government and at least one of which sets out the buyer’s address.

Marginal note:Verification of identity

(2) If the buyer provides a piece of identification that bears a photograph, the seller must ensure, before selling the propellant powder, that the photograph is that of the buyer.

Where does it say address or PAL is required? According to 294 (1)(A) it just says photo id issued by governmen (PALor Passport most common). The "OR" would mean an address is only required if no photo id presented.

[Runewolf1973]

My dad went to The Sportsman's Den today and their salesman who is also apparently a gunsmith was quite adamant that I needed a PAL licence, lol. Well anyways I went to Wolverine Sports instead and got my powder. No issue whatsoever. No PAL needed. They just wanted ID. The guys at Wolverine just shook their heads and chuckled when I told them what happened. Lol.

[Dick284]

Originally Posted by Mulehahn

Where does it say address or PAL is required? According to 294 (1)(A) it just says photo id issued by governmen (PALor Passport most common). The "OR" would mean an address is only required if no photo id presented.

PAL is not required, that is not in question or debate.

294. (1) b (ID must show address)

And the last paragraph about ID verification.


Where did I inject that a PAL was required? I’ll help you, I didn’t.


I posted the exact verbiage because everyone is going in circles, claiming Black Poweder isn’t a propellant powder, and that ID verification and address isn’t required, it’s either your pic is confirmed to be you, or your address is used from a non pic ID.

I’ve only provided facts correcting eronious replied, and little to no commentary as to the what and how.

Go pick a bone elsewhere.

[Mulehahn]

Originally Posted by Dick284

PAL is not required, that is not in question or debate.

294. (1) b (ID must show address)

And the last paragraph about ID verification.


Where did I inject that a PAL was required? I’ll help you, I didn’t.


I posted the exact verbiage because everyone is going in circles, claiming Black Poweder isn’t a propellant powder, and that ID verification and address isn’t required, it’s either your pic is confirmed to be you, or your address is used from a non pic ID.

I’ve only provided facts correcting eronious replied, and little to no commentary as to the what and how.

Go pick a bone elsewhere.

I was questioning the posts that you had to provide an address or PAL and that that information had to be recorded. I just quoted you to in an effort to provide context. I can legally walk into a store with my passport, which has neither my address nor PAL number, but is photo and purchase black powder.

Don't have a bone to pick with you. I was just seeking clarification (using your post) on where it says stores need my address/PAL if using photo ID, and where it says such information must be recorfed. Didn't mean to offend. Have a great weekend