ideas: new Cdn. Rangers rifle?

[twofifty]

PM Harper was pictured today on the front page of the Financial Post, prone firing a .303 Lee Enfield - the Canadian arctic Rangers' issue rifle.

There is talk in govt. and media circles of replacing the Lee Enfield with a more modern rifle.

What would you suggest given the terrain and climate above the 60th parallel, and the Rangers' observe and report mission?

Would the CF's current issue 5.56 cal rifle be a good choice, and why?

[catnthehat]

Crap they've been talking about changing out the Enfields for years!!
As far as the arctic rangers go I doubt if any of them are too crazy about using the C7, except maybe for seals.
The Enfield is a stone cold reliable piece of kit for the arctic.
Cat

[twofifty]

I would agree the C7 is not likely at the top of the Rangers' list.

The media should ask the Rangers whether they are still content with the Lee Enfields, what they like/dislike about the LE, and finally what they want as a replacement - given that apparently the 'smiths can't get parts for them.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by twofifty

I would agree the C7 is not likely at the top of the Rangers' list.

The media should ask the Rangers whether they are still content with the Lee Enfields, what they like/dislike about the LE, and finally what they want as a replacement - given that apparently the 'smiths can't get parts for them.

Never mind the media, maybe the danged people responsible for issuing the danged rifles should ask them!!
I know that when my brother was stationed out of Yellowknife with the 2RCR he told me that the Rangers simply HATED target practice with the FN's they much preferred their Enfields.
Cat

[marlin1]

I'm still waiting to buy one of those enfields . Hoping they upgrade so's I can get a minty 303

[Big Daddy Badger]

Originally Posted by twofifty

PM Harper was pictured today on the front page of the Financial Post, prone firing a .303 Lee Enfield - the Canadian arctic Rangers' issue rifle.

There is talk in govt. and media circles of replacing the Lee Enfield with a more modern rifle.

What would you suggest given the terrain and climate above the 60th parallel, and the Rangers' observe and report mission?

Would the CF's current issue 5.56 cal rifle be a good choice, and why?

No.

A lot of rangers use that Enfield for hunting.
Its well suited to the arctic for that and its a rifle that can be used for everything from shoveling to making a tent pole or a club.
More importantly...it can be repaired easily with minimal services and parts....not that they break very often at all.
The rangers would be better of with another reliable bolt action in a medium calibre if the Enfields are going to be retired.

[Selkirk]

The article I read in the Calgary Herald today (if you can believe what you read ) indicated that the replacement for their Enfields (whenever it happens) would be a bolt action again, but in .308 .

Given the Ranger's 'non-combat' roll, and the conditions in the arctic, that makes sense to me.

Mac

[Big Daddy Badger]

Originally Posted by MacLeod

The article I read in the Calgary Herald today (if you can believe what you read ) indicated that the replacement for their Enfields (whenever it happens) would be a bolt action again, but in .308 .

Given the Ranger's 'non-combat' roll, and the conditions in the arctic, that makes sense to me.

Mac

I'd like to add that my FN worked well in the Arctic.... but its heavy and it might not be something that they could use for sustinance hunting...at least not with a 20 round magazine.

Its a tall order though... its amazing what breaks down when the mercury gets as low as it does up there sometimes.

Hopefully they get good rifles.

[Selkirk]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy Badger

I'd like to add that my FN worked well in the Arctic.... but its heavy and it might not be something that they could use for sustinance hunting...at least not with a 20 round magazine.

Its a tall order though... its amazing what breaks down when the mercury gets as low as it does up there sometimes.

Hopefully they get good rifles.

Agreed ^

So what bolt action rifle (available in .308) has a good track record in the high arctic?

Mac

[quasi]

build more #4 Lee Enfields.

[Grizzly Adams]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

Never mind the media, maybe the danged people responsible for issuing the danged rifles should ask them!!
I know that when my brother was stationed out of Yellowknife with the 2RCR he told me that the Rangers simply HATED target practice with the FN's they much preferred their Enfields.
Cat

Really, for what they do, what's wrong with the old one ? And the FN was about the unhandiest piece of **** any reasonable person would discard as soon as possible.

Grizz

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams

Really, for what they do, what's wrong with the old one ? And the FN was about the unhandiest piece of **** any reasonable person would discard as soon as possible.

Grizz

EXATAMUNDO!!
Cat

[Au revoir, Gopher]

Originally Posted by quasi

build more #4 Lee Enfields.

Isn't there a company in Australia making knock offs? I wonder if those would be of sufficient quality to meet military specifications. Better yet, maybe Savage could expand the Lakefield plant to make No 4s.

ARG

[Hotwheels81]

Remmington 700 milspec in 30-06 would be pretty high on my first choice list.

.... Last gun id want to have in my hands in the arctic or boreal is a C7... Atleast an -06 works on anything from grouse to polar bear.

[Pathfinder76]

A Ruger M77 MK II with their factory issue NECG banded front sight, somebody's aperture/peep rear sight. 21" barrel, a McMillan stock, and if they have to their 10rnd DBM unit.

Gee that was hard.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by chuck

A Ruger M77 MK II with their factory issue NECG banded front sight, somebody's aperture/peep rear sight. 21" barrel, a McMillan stock, and if they have to their 10rnd DBM unit.

Gee that was hard.

I know they did some trie=als with ruger, nt sure which bolt action they used though.
IIRC on the campfire I saw the other day that there was something about money as well...
Cat

[blueoval56]

My vote would be the ruger gunsite scout. What would be wrong with that?

[Okotokian]

From a militay perspective, doesn't matter what rifle you give them. They aren't going to be fighting Russians anytime soon. LOL Given they can use the rifles for huntng, give them a good bolt action rifle, (synthetic/stainless) that fits the bill for game and defense against predators up there. Personally, if I'm out roaming the land of polar bears I'd want something a bit larger thana .308.

Heck, you cold just give them an allowance and let them choose their own rifle.

[Flieguy]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

Heck, you cold just give them an allowance and let them choose their own rifle.

now HERE's and idea....

probably make for a nice diverse crew, using rifles they are all comfortable with.

only issue I can see is that they'd have to carry different ammunition. If you limited it to say 30-06 or 7mm and just let them go and get whatever rifle they wanted in that calibre they'd all still have interchangeable ammunition

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by Flieguy

now HERE's and idea....

If you limited it to say 30-06 or 7mm and just let them go and get whatever rifle they wanted in that calibre they'd all still have interchangeable ammunition

Yup, that makes sense. But the military could never get their head wrapped around this concept. They will work for a couple of years developing standards, then put the rifle order out to tender, evaluating things such as net-benefit to canada of the manufacture, etc. By the time the Rangers get their new rifles it will be 2021 and each rifle will have cost $52,000.

[greylynx]

[QUOTE=Okotokian;2088246]From a militay perspective, doesn't matter what rifle you give them. They aren't going to be fighting Russians anytime soon. LOL Given they can use the rifles for huntng, give them a good bolt action rifle, (synthetic/stainless) that fits the bill for game and defense against predators up there. Personally, if I'm out roaming the land of polar bears I'd want something a bit larger thana .308.

Maybe a .50 Barrett. Look out Whales.

.338 is nice. It is currently used a fair bit from what I have been told (hearsay)

[Pioneer2]

The FNFAL's..............Harold

[858king]

http://www.strategypage.com/dls/arti...-1-22-2009.asp

[Big Daddy Badger]

Originally Posted by MacLeod

Agreed ^

So what bolt action rifle (available in .308) has a good track record in the high arctic?

Mac

Well there are those Enfields that were switched over to 308....
Otherwise who knows?
It'll likely be something with a loose action a that operates well with essentially no lubricant.
The plasitic don't like cold very much either sometimes.

The probelm is that nobody is really making bolt action military grade weapons anymore.

[Big Daddy Badger]

Originally Posted by Flieguy

now HERE's and idea....

probably make for a nice diverse crew, using rifles they are all comfortable with.

only issue I can see is that they'd have to carry different ammunition. If you limited it to say 30-06 or 7mm and just let them go and get whatever rifle they wanted in that calibre they'd all still have interchangeable ammunition

I doubt that will fly.
Thgere are good resons why everyone in a miliary formation...and that is what the rangers are... carry the same things in the same calibers.

Letting them choose their own individual rifles and calibers would turn the logistics of supporting them into a nightmare.

[rwm1273]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

Crap they've been talking about changing out the Enfields for years!!
As far as the arctic rangers go I doubt if any of them are too crazy about using the C7, except maybe for seals.
The Enfield is a stone cold reliable piece of kit for the arctic.
Cat

I fully agree. If anything, modernize it somewhat with better sights. Maybe even rechamber it with a more common cartridge such as a 308.

[RatFink]

If I'm not mistaken, they did evaluate the Gunsite Scout but GoC regulations require it to be built in Canada or something so they wanted Ruger to hand over the blue prints to Colt Canada and Ruger basically told them to shove it.
There was also a prototype CZ that was trialled that looked amazing. There were pictures of it on CGN but I can't find them right now.

[MadMarty911]

Accuracy International makes a proven bolt action for cold climates.

[twofifty]

What performance criteria do you believe a Ranger's new rifle ought to meet?
If you were putting this new rifle out for tender, how would you write these up?

So far we've got:

- min. of 30 caliber,
- bolt action,
- weather resistant stock,
- cold climate proven (arctic & boreal),
- practical for hunting.

[Grizzly Adams]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy Badger

I doubt that will fly.
Thgere are good resons why everyone in a miliary formation...and that is what the rangers are... carry the same things in the same calibers.

Letting them choose their own individual rifles and calibers would turn the logistics of supporting them into a nightmare.

Rangers are probably the best bang for the buck,when it comes to our military spending. Least we can do is make damn sure the few dollars new rifles will cost are exactly what they need.

Grizz