Marie Lake Injustice

[SNAPFisher]

I don't know walleyes, you don't sound very sincere in saying that the project at Marie Lake was needless. This is not a shot, just asking - Do you truly believe that it was/is needless?

[Walleyes]

Yes it was needless,, because at this point and time there are other places to obtain the resources...
But what I am against is using lies and misinformation to get results... Believe me I love the north and have as much passion for it as any man alive... Do you not think I care what happens ??? do yous not see my pictures ??? where I live,,, how I live.. I spend practically every day that I am not at work out playing in the Lakeland area... My family has lived in the area since 1951,,, we have worked and played there for going on 4 generations now... Yes I care,,, but I care with an open mind and I listen to all points of view...
Yes I work in the oil patch,, but why does that make me bad,, just because I get payed a healthy paycheck ??? hey we are raising families in that area and we need more industry to keep our kids at home... Maybe my boys won't have to leave their wife and kids for 150 - 200 days out of the year,, maybe they will be able to work closer to home... I have worked in the patch going on 25 years now,, I sit in a fairly good position and I think have a pretty good idea what goes on,, and I just get fed up with the lies and bullsh$t that is flung out there.. I get sick and tired of the names...
Who do people think owns these oil companies and run them ??? you know who ??? we all do... Any body that has a mutual fund any body that has a G.I.C. anybody that has money in a savings account in this province even any of you that are in any union own an oil company and fuel its desires and greed.. Because we all expect our funds to give us a decent return on our money and the hottest investments right now are resource developments.. So just about all our investment companies invest the majority of our money in these area's.. So when they invest you're money they demand a decent return for you,, and as such it fuels the oil companies to expand so their stocks will rise so you can get you're money for when you retire on you're union pension you can enjoy life... So shame on you.. You are destroying the environment,, You are the greedy oil company....

[SNAPFisher]

And with that logic, so are you in the same "baot" - no pun intended - as the rest of us.

Do you really believe that people like penner and myself would just consider oil companies as the only cause? I mean really. We are all intelligent people here. So spare us the lectures on what polluters we are and that everyone is to blame. We all share a hand in that, we get it.

That fact is that people banded together to make a difference for what you even term as a "needless" project. So we are in agreement here.

I am thankful that those cottage owners were even there to make a difference. I am sure that they had maybe the biggest impact of us all. Great! I am happy how it turned out! Maybe there will be a project one day that will make sense and can be supported. I do agree that not all can be needless.

[Walleyes]

If in anywhere in my post you didn't think I put the blame on myself as well well I'm sorry I guess you missed it... And you missed the point of the posts all together... The point was,, again I'll explain it,, if I was speaking to you I would talk slow so you could understand... The point was,, is that lies and scare tactics and misinformation should not be used to obtain what we want... Again we as outdoors people if any should be aware of these types of tactics,, the antis use them against us every day... And by this I mean they used non educated miss guided info as to the destruction seismic activity would have on the lake,, second they tried to portray Marie Lake as some divine little out of the way pristine untouched body of water,, which it is not.. Like I said before there has been drilling activity in this area for many years,, its the reason all those people are there...
Now the people didn't want the plant there because they don't want the eye sore of a plant on the shores of their lake and with out a doubt some environmental impact.. And all the extra traffic that comes with it and the noise.. So good,, those are all very good reasons.. But again don't fill the public with lies... Don't portray them selves as the stewards of the land and the oil company as the evil wolf,,, sorry that is what turns my gut... Because again if they cared about that lake as much as they say,, if they wanted to keep that lake untouched and pristine they would not be there them selves... We have many lakes in the Lakeland area that we are fighting to keep from being exploited and opened up,, but these lakes are out of the way untouched lakes... We need those area's to be left alone,, to be preserved as they are... And I hope that truth and logic will be used to keep them that way not lies and finger pointing...

Now this probably won't sink in to some of you because no matter what I say some look at my posts negatively and don't read them for what they are.. I guess if I was a yes man like most and didn't try and open some closed minds once and a while,, if I didn't speak my mind and went along through life like an aimless sheep like most I would fit in.. But that's not my style,, I say what has to be said and I don't hold back because it might offend some people.. So sorry if the truth doesn't fit in but that's life...

[SNAPFisher]

Great, thanks for the repeat lesson that you are trying to get accross. I get it. I'm sure everyone else here does too.

Back to all I was posting about. If it is a needless project, as you have said yourself, please don't go on and on and on and on and on ....about misinformation and other junk. It was needless project, it is stopped for now.

If you want people to read your posts for what they are, quit insulting people within them.

[Huntar69]

Originally Posted by Walleyes

Yes it was needless,, because at this point and time there are other places to obtain the resources...
But what I am against is using lies and misinformation to get results... Believe me I love the north and have as much passion for it as any man alive... Do you not think I care what happens ??? do yous not see my pictures ??? where I live,,, how I live.. I spend practically every day that I am not at work out playing in the Lakeland area... My family has lived in the area since 1951,,, we have worked and played there for going on 4 generations now... Yes I care,,, but I care with an open mind and I listen to all points of view...
Yes I work in the oil patch,, but why does that make me bad,, just because I get payed a healthy paycheck ??? hey we are raising families in that area and we need more industry to keep our kids at home... Maybe my boys won't have to leave their wife and kids for 150 - 200 days out of the year,, maybe they will be able to work closer to home... I have worked in the patch going on 25 years now,, I sit in a fairly good position and I think have a pretty good idea what goes on,, and I just get fed up with the lies and bullsh$t that is flung out there.. I get sick and tired of the names...
Who do people think owns these oil companies and run them ??? you know who ??? we all do... Any body that has a mutual fund any body that has a G.I.C. anybody that has money in a savings account in this province even any of you that are in any union own an oil company and fuel its desires and greed.. Because we all expect our funds to give us a decent return on our money and the hottest investments right now are resource developments.. So just about all our investment companies invest the majority of our money in these area's.. So when they invest you're money they demand a decent return for you,, and as such it fuels the oil companies to expand so their stocks will rise so you can get you're money for when you retire on you're union pension you can enjoy life... So shame on you.. You are destroying the environment,, You are the greedy oil company....

with you 100%!!!! nicely put walleye....... environment is heaven on earth but industry is a must if like it or not you are using it. Never say no just make them do it smarter cleaner better. yes save the places we love but if you want to make a real differance go to China because thats scary...that my piece, /(*&^% if you dont like it. lol

[ctd]

I have to agree with Walleyes opinion. I lived in Cold Lake for 2 years and fished at Marie lake more then a few times. His writting is very well done, and very straight forward.
How many of you live in the area? How many of you own Cabins on the lake?
how many of you quad, hike, horseback ride 4x4 or other activitie in the area?
How many of you have joined a local group who not only uses the trail system in the area but also maintains them?
How often do you watch what you do to the enviroment around you, pick up garbage that isnt yours. ]

The fact that the Goveremnt sold the rights to a company that had every intention of using them,. Now they have been shorth changed so to speak.

[Chung66]

The only reason that this is an issue is that the project was proposed for a lake with cabins on it. Simple as that.
How can I say this? Siesmic has been shot on and around water as long as oil exploration has been around. No one has said a peep about the other programs.

Not wanting to disturb the waters (no pun intended) but calling it as I see it.

As a side note: EUB regulations prohibit new oil wells from being built on or near water (not within 100m)

[dodger]

I agree with Walleyes and appreciate a well informed comment. The part that makes me worry the most is that Stelmach undermined the legal process that the oil company went threw. By over ruling the EUB he has shown disregard for the people that make these decisions. So where does he stop now? Do we go direct to him now for all decision's since all aspects of government are irrelevant now. Maybe we can tell him the biologists are just fools and that we can now have a 20 Walleye limit on all lakes. Imagine the money saved as we shut down large parts of government and Eddy can make these simple decisions. He can sit at some restaurant table and we get in line for a face to face with him. He can just give us a simple yes or no and that's final.

my $0.02 worth.

Remember to leave it better than you found it.

Dodger.

[Penner]

Everyone is entitled to their opinions but know the facts before you make false statements.

For everyone’s information this project never made it to the EUB. The EUB had no involvement with this decision as their role in approving or disapproving of a project does not happen until an application is in place to potentially build the oil & gas facilities. The Seismic testing, lease purchase, etc. needs to get approved by the Alberta government before it ever gets close to the EUB . Stelmach over ruled his own ministries as there were simply to many unknowns to possibly allow this project to continue without having those unknowns solved. Hold back the troops until your 100% certain. That’s what a good leader should do.

Walleyes, I suggest for you to do a little research on Seismic testing before you make such a bold statement. Our findings (and we have many of them) some of which are from sustainable resource development itself show that past studies on 3D Seismic testing on fresh water lakes can be extremely harmful and even deadly to all types of aquatic life. There has never been any Seismic testing on Alberta lakes to the magnitude or scale that was planned to take place on Marie Lake. I can guarantee you that there are no “scare tactics” or “misinformation” involved with the fight to save Marie Lake. It goes beyond protecting the environment it’s also about maintaining a quality of life for Albertan’s.

In case folks are unaware, the company behind this Marie Lake project OSUM Corp. also bought the oil leases under and around Moore Lake (Crane Lake). They were in the process of applying for Seismic testing on that Lake as well. There was also an application being filed to perform Seismic testing on Frog Lake. What you are seeing is the beginning of an all out free-for-all in the Lakeland Area. From Wolf Lake right thru to Cold Lake. If you are not concerned about this being outdoorsmen of Alberta you need to give your head a shake??? If you want to see the before and after effects, take a drive around Marie Lake, then take a drive north of La Corey or around Bourque Lake. See if you are able to gain any hunting access anywhere near these processing facilities. The oil & gas companies will rape the land and rule it with an iron fist. You or I have no say.

It will be a mighty cold day before anyone can convince me to side with the any oil & gas companies. The environment as far as the oil & gas companies are concerned is at the bottom of the list. No doubt our government policies may allow these companies to get away with murder but those policies have been in place well before Eddy ever came into power. Don’t get me wrong I’m not sold on Stelmach either but it takes some pretty big “cahuna’s” to stand up and say no to the oil & gas companies and black suits in Calgary. After much public pressure he stood up for what Albertan’s wanted. In my opinion that’s a positive thing. Eddy did say they will begin to review many government policies regarding these types of issues. Let’s just hope that they do.

[Walleyes]

The oil & gas companies will rape the land and rule it with an iron fist. You or I have no say.

The environment as far as the oil & gas companies are concerned is at the bottom of the list. No doubt our government policies may allow these companies to get away with murder

Boy its not hard to pic out the Civil Servant, N.D.P. unionist is it.... :

[Penner]

Originally Posted by Walleyes

Boy its not hard to pic out the Civil Servant, N.D.P. unionist is it.... :

Walleyes, your level of maturity and intelligence really shines with comments like that. It would appear the only opinions that count are your own and or any of those who agree with you.

I guess you’re free to speculate on anything you wish, I’m only trying to provide folks whom truly care about this issue and who want to try and maintain some sort of quality of life in Alberta with facts about an issue I know a fair amount about and have been involved with for over a year now.

For your information I am an avid outdoorsmen, I actually work in the oil & gas industry, I’m not very thrilled of socialist groups (NDP), and as for unionist I guess they have their agenda and I have mine both of which are neither here or there.

Crack open a beer and relax dude.

[SNAPFisher]

This is probably one of the more interesting threads I have read in a while.

Penner, that was always my concern that there have been and will be other lakes in NB1 targeted for such projects. I hope the majority of them never come to pass, the needless ones, and I will do my part in learning about them before leaping. Thanks for the info and continue to post it.

Walleyes has some good points about perception and understanding. Pionts well taken. I don't agree with his view that Marie Lake being less pristine somehow makes it less of an impact....so does that mean that lakes like Pigeon Lake, the impact is even less? Cabins or not, outdoorsmen pollution or not, I don't see a major difference between effecting a lake like Marie or a more remote one like May Lake or Spencer Lake, etc. Maybe this is not what you were you were insinuating from your earlier post but it left me with that impression.

If Marie Lake becomes a wake up call for involvement from others, I would rather shake their hand and welcome them to the club than complain about how they got there.

[Walleyes]

Very well put snap,, I am with you on the fact we have to keep an eye on our big industries and make sure we hold them responsible for there actions.. But at the same time we do have to allow them to grow.. There is a difference between keeping and eye on them and being anti big business..

Penner,,, I'm not sure about you... You say you're an avid outdoorsman but there was something that bugged me about you're posts.. So I went back and checked out all posts by you (a handy feature on this site) and all you're posts other than 4, 1 on somebody else's fish and 1 on mercury in water and a couple on a fish finder all you're posts have been on Marie Lake,, or about bashing big buisness and oil companies and goverments.. There is a difference between someone who go's outside and what I, and most on here consider an outdoorsman... Many activist and antis spend many days in the outdoors... Boys I think we may have to really watch what we say I believe we have an anti on our hands.... I could be wrong but penner,, don't expect any more feed back on anything from me...

[Penner]

Walleyes, I'm not all that certain to what you’re trying to get at within your last post.

For the record I'm not bashing big business or oil & gas companies at all. I'm bashing (if you wish to call it that) that fact that we need to halt any further oil & gas work in the province until we complete the projects already in progress. There is a massive labour shortage in Alberta and I personally do not want to import foreign workers outside of Canada to take jobs away from Canadian's. Starting more projects right now will only make it worse.

I'm also bashing the fact that we have limited fish bearing lakes in Alberta and only a handful with the water quality that Marie has. Current government policies do not protect our Lakes what so ever and it allows oil & gas companies to set foot where ever they please. Current environmental polices are a joke which again allow oil & gas companies to get away with things that harm the environment and put the general public at risk. We cannot continue to allow this to happen. Reform is needed to ensure that all Albertan’s have a say of where and when these projects should take place. We must maintain existing recreational area’s especially around water bodies so that we will be able to freely enjoy those areas for recreational purposes for years to come.

To date Imperial oil has Maskwa Mahihkan, and Leming with Nabiye coming on board in the next few years which will undoubtedly disrupt and change the May Lake and surrounding area. Ecana has foster creek and they are planning to double the project over the next 5-10 years granted most of this is within the air weapons range. Encana is also construction phase 1 of their Christna Lake project with plans for two more phases which will carry construction up to 2015. You have Husky Tucker Lake which will be around operating for an expected 35 years. You have the Devon project up near Conklin/Christna Lake. You have CNRL up at Christna/Kirby Lake who are going to expand that project over the next 15 years. There is WhiteSands In-Situ up near Christna Lake. All of the CNRL/Encana/Imperial facilities in and around Wolf Lake. Who knows how many smaller operations I’ve missed, not to mention the countless pipelines, pumping stations, co-gen’s, powerlines, source and disposal water well sites throughout the entire area. All everyone needs are two new processing facilities plus the supporting pipelines, pumping stations, co-gen’s, powerlines, source and disposal water well sites facilities in around Moore and Marie Lake.

Walleye’s as above and according to your comments you say we must allow industry to grow??? I can’t understand your logic and makes me say, I'm not sure about you???

Please understand I’m not trying to pick a fight with you but I’m simply only disagreeing with you and pointing out some facts that you may have overlooked. Your opinion and feedback along with everyone else’s is what makes the debate and this message board and others like it enjoyable.

BTW, I only post on discussions that interest me. Most of the posts as of late have not interested me a whole bunch but I do read most of them, and I may just not reply to all of them. I also have not been out fishing a whole bunch this year so I don’t have much to ask or to report. I’m not really certain how that is relevant in this discussion.