Help with bacon flavour.

[Slurpee]

Just recently made some bacon out of some pork that we grew and butchered ourselves.
Did a dry cure in the fridge for 10 days followed by a 4hr smoke.

I’m mostly very pleased with it.

However, there is a strange taste with certain pieces. It’s a strong unpleasant taste. Similar to freezer burn but definitely not from the freezer.

Anybody have any experience with a strange taste like this or recommendations to get all the bacon tasting great?

[pikeman06]

I've never done a dry cure on a slab of pork belly to make bacon. I might be inclined to think that taste is uncured meat, perhaps in the center of the slab? I'm a wet brine, injection type guy when it comes to curing meat and fish so I'm certainly no authority on dry curing meats, but sounds to me like tainted meat.

[Dean2]

You are likely tasting rancid fat. Raw Pork fat goes off VERY quickly, even in a freezer it will go bad. What part of the slab, outside edge vs deeper cut has the bad flavour.

[EZM]

We used to do bacon, prosciutto and belly for many, many years growing up from fresh pig.

Wet brine drastically reduces incidents of uncured/air sections of the fat and there's less chance of something going off and rancid.

Dry curing requires better refrigeration (air flow, circulation, temp accuracy), faster handling of the meat and twice as much cure/salt/spice and needs to be periodically patted down and turned over. Particularly if there isn't "free air" moving around the slabs (and you are stacking them).

Stacking them is bad when dry curing.

Typically we did a short dry cure *3 days maybe 4 tops then into the smoker for a blast or two (when the temp outside was 4 degrees c or cooler) so the dry cure process continued in the smokehouse and maintained safe temperatures.

That whole process is 4-6 days.

I have never had it curing for 10 days - but again, we did this European style with no "chemical additives". We also never got any rancid taste or spoilage as year and years of experience came from my grampa and dad.

Ultimately, I agree, sounds like a little of it went off and got rancid.

[Swamp hunter]

What did you use for cure? I'm assuming just kosher salt if you did ten days which is probably not enough. If you add a little Prague powder or cure to your salt 3 days is enough.
I've been doing bacon for 20 years and only dry cure with equal parts salt and brown sugar with what ever amount Prague cure for the quantity of meat I am doing. Then hot smoke between 100f-140f, usually 8 hours. Dry cure is the best way to cure hands down for the quality of product.
If you are salt curing only you need to salt daily and remove the liquid it draws from the meat until it is completely dry... sometimes more than 14 days.

[Swamp hunter]

Originally Posted by EZM

We used to do bacon, prosciutto and belly for many, many years growing up from fresh pig.

Wet brine drastically reduces incidents of uncured/air sections of the fat and there's less chance of something going off and rancid.

Dry curing requires better refrigeration (air flow, circulation, temp accuracy), faster handling of the meat and twice as much cure/salt/spice and needs to be periodically patted down and turned over. Particularly if there isn't "free air" moving around the slabs (and you are stacking them).

Stacking them is bad when dry curing.

Typically we did a short dry cure *3 days maybe 4 tops then into the smoker for a blast or two (when the temp outside was 4 degrees c or cooler) so the dry cure process continued in the smokehouse and maintained safe temperatures.

That whole process is 4-6 days.

I have never had it curing for 10 days - but again, we did this European style with no "chemical additives". We also never got any rancid taste or spoilage as year and years of experience came from my grampa and dad.

Ultimately, I agree, sounds like a little of it went off and got rancid.

Dry rub curing has nothing to do with air. It's the salt that removes the moisture from the product.

[bat119]

I use this calculator for dry cure bacon

http://www.localfoodheroes.co.uk/cal...ry_cure_bacon/

Add any other spices for prefer I add lot's of black pepper some add maple syrup.

Only one slab per bag, after a day or two enough moisture will be drawn from the meat to cover it turn bags daily when the meat is stiff it's done.

[fishtank]

Originally Posted by EZM

We used to do bacon, prosciutto and belly for many, many years growing up from fresh pig.

Wet brine drastically reduces incidents of uncured/air sections of the fat and there's less chance of something going off and rancid.

Dry curing requires better refrigeration (air flow, circulation, temp accuracy), faster handling of the meat and twice as much cure/salt/spice and needs to be periodically patted down and turned over. Particularly if there isn't "free air" moving around the slabs (and you are stacking them).

Stacking them is bad when dry curing.

Typically we did a short dry cure *3 days maybe 4 tops then into the smoker for a blast or two (when the temp outside was 4 degrees c or cooler) so the dry cure process continued in the smokehouse and maintained safe temperatures.

That whole process is 4-6 days.

I have never had it curing for 10 days - but again, we did this European style with no "chemical additives". We also never got any rancid taste or spoilage as year and years of experience came from my grampa and dad.

Ultimately, I agree, sounds like a little of it went off and got rancid.

yep always wet brine , its ok to put a extra bit of salt

[FlyTheory]

Not sure, but I don’t think dry rub has much to do with it. I’ve successfully done dry rubs and no issues. If you dry rub it and cure it in a vacuum bag, it limits the amount of oxygen that reaches the fat (a component that causes rancidity). Also improper airflow when you hang it could cause rancid spots.
I do this: dry brine 5 days (brown sugar, salt, juniper berries crushed, salt, crushed bay leaves), rinse, hang for 5 days, smoke at 100C for 2 hours. No need to use Prague powder if you don’t want to. Oxygen is your enemy in this case.

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by FlyTheory

Not sure, but I don’t think dry rub has much to do with it. I’ve successfully done dry rubs and no issues. If you dry rub it and cure it in a vacuum bag, it limits the amount of oxygen that reaches the fat (a component that causes rancidity). Also improper airflow when you hang it could cause rancid spots.
I do this: dry brine 5 days (brown sugar, salt, juniper berries crushed, salt, crushed bay leaves), rinse, hang for 5 days, smoke at 100C for 2 hours. No need to use Prague powder if you don’t want to. Oxygen is your enemy in this case.

Curious as to why no prague even though you are smoking?

I prefer dry brine cured bacon, but often do a wet brine as it is easier and pretty much fool proof.
Wet brine I do about 14 days

[PartTimeHunter]

I use a dry rub as well, 7 to 10 days. I like that over brine as there is no splatter when cooking. Always use cure as well. Just not worth it to not to

[waldedw]

Not sure about this dry cure, we always did the 2 week wet brine in the crock, then to the smoke house, loved our home cured bacon, sliced thick and fried in the old cast iron pan with a couple eggs, home fries and 2 slices of home made bread toasted and some of mom's home made Saskatoon jam, wow I can taste it already, I'm drooling

[pikeman06]

Didn't realize dry curing bacon was so popular. Might have to give it a try. I know it works good for oily fish prior to smoking but never personally done it, just ate it. I've had good luck wet brining and its a learning process even after 30 years. I learnt to never change your salt sugar water mixture but if you find it way too salty cut back on your brine times. A couple hours can make a huge difference especially on thin cuts and fish. Just a tip...., it can get discouraging fast when you ruin a batch or two, but nothing compares to perfectly cured, smoked meats and fish especially when you do it yourself.

[calgarychef]

I do cure mine just because it’s easy and I’m lazy and it works very well.
I always use curing salt or Morton’s because it’s easy to find. 7-10 days per inch of thickness, turning it and restacking every day. That’s over inch... lots of bellies are over an inch thick so ....longer is better. A soak for a few hours then back in the fridge for a day to let the salts come to “equilibrium,” hanging is best for this part and for sure let the surface dry out and form a skin. Pellicule is a fancy French word for skin.

I usually cold smoke mine for a bit, then warm up the smoker and continue smoking until it’s done. I really do prefer dry cured to brined, it’s easier and there’s no water in the pan when it cooks.

You can do almost the same thing for a dry cured beef, then smoke it (or not),
I cook it in a steamer, keeps it moist and tenderizes it nicely.

[EZM]

Originally Posted by Swamp hunter

Dry rub curing has nothing to do with air. It's the salt that removes the moisture from the product.

Not sure we are on the same page here .... I was referring to keeping air circulating around it and not leaving it stacked when dry curing pre smoke - if you don't ensure good air circulation or that things don't have enough space and you are not watching it .... there is a 100% chance things will go sideways on you.

It's far more work, requires more diligence, but the results for some products are far better.

We did Shpeck (smoked/salt cured bacon), Smoked Prosciutto, smoke venison sausages, salami, a type of chorizo, you name it - we did it ...... as fresh off the boat immigrants.

I had no idea meat came in plastic wrap until I was a teenager .... lol

No curing powders or store bought stuff.

Salt, Smoke, spices and good process and diligence. Maybe with additives and chemical cures this is not as big of a deal, but we never used them and we are all still alive !!!!

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by EZM

Not sure we are on the same page here .... I was referring to keeping air circulating around it and not leaving it stacked when dry curing pre smoke - if you don't ensure good air circulation or that things don't have enough space and you are not watching it .... there is a 100% chance things will go sideways on you.

It's far more work, requires more diligence, but the results for some products are far better.

We did Shpeck (smoked/salt cured bacon), Smoked Prosciutto, smoke venison sausages, salami, a type of chorizo, you name it - we did it ...... as fresh off the boat immigrants.

I had no idea meat came in plastic wrap until I was a teenager .... lol

No curing powders or store bought stuff.

Salt, Smoke, spices and good process and diligence. Maybe with additives and chemical cures this is not as big of a deal, but we never used them and we are all still alive !!!!

Cure is used to prevent botulism when smoking. No amount of diligence will prevent that. I spent years getting lucky not using it on jerky, sausage and such....now I do. Probably only get it once...

[EZM]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

Cure is used to prevent botulism when smoking. No amount of diligence will prevent that. I spent years getting lucky not using it on jerky, sausage and such....now I do. Probably only get it once...

I guess we were all lucky, generations and generations of us stupid ignorant immigrants before the days of chemical cures .....

But, on a serious note, I would use chemical cures today, simply because I don't have the experience and proficiency my dad, grampa and great grampa had doing this.

We made cured meats, sour cabbage, pickles, peppers, jams and other jarred goods, sausage, stored root veg and made wine (and moonshine) without any additives whatsoever and no curing chemicals for anything.

Never used a single grain of sugar in the shine or wine either. Natural sugars from the fruit and fermentation.

[FlyTheory]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

Curious as to why no prague even though you are smoking?

I prefer dry brine cured bacon, but often do a wet brine as it is easier and pretty much fool proof.
Wet brine I do about 14 days

A few reasons,


Smoking the meat naturally adds nitrates from the smoke particles (potassium nitrate and sodium nitrate), which is why we see a “smoke ring” with smoking and grilling meat. So if I do smoke it, all exposed surfaces are covered with nitrates from the smoke, anyways.

I also don’t really mind meat discolouration from not using Prague powder. Since a big reason for the use of nitrates and nitrites is so that they break down to nitrous oxide and bind strongly with the myoglobin — causing the pink colour, also called “blooming”.

I also sterilize all my equipment, vacuum seal and freeze my end product so bacterial growth would be minimal even if no nitrate was present.

If I were to do sausage meat or something that gets lots of chances of being exposed to contaminants, or if a gut shot happened with an animal, I totally would be using Prague powder to reduce the risk of bacterial growth. That’s all! Plus the bacon doesn’t last too long always, so no need to preserve it, really

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by FlyTheory

I also don’t really mind meat discolouration from not using Prague powder.

)

Think it was this thread I mentioned a product besides cure to add the "color" your product. Sodium ethorbate or however it's spelled. Too lazy to look at the package. It will colour it up without prague.

I'm not a fan in using prague either. Never used to, but I do now. Belly bacon I don't worry about it as much as it's typically cooked hard enough should be fine. Brined back bacon and any sausage I smoke I use it though. I tend to undercook both of those

[Douglas N]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

Think it was this thread I mentioned a product besides cure to add the "color" your product. Sodium ethorbate or however it's spelled. Too lazy to look at the package. It will colour it up without prague.

I'm not a fan in using prague either. Never used to, but I do now. Belly bacon I don't worry about it as much as it's typically cooked hard enough should be fine. Brined back bacon and any sausage I smoke I use it though. I tend to undercook both of those

Sodium Erythobate is a cure accelerator, and basically a form of Vitamin C. I use it in addition to FS Cure when making smoked sausage, jerky, and bacon.

For those afraid of Sodium Nitrate, consider that celery juice is often used as a curing agent (with salt) to produce smoked food with “no added nitrates”, which is true but still contains nitrates, as celery contains VERY high levels of nitrates naturally.

This is from Sausagemaker.com

“A common ingredient used in sausage making and meat curing for accelerating the breakdown of sodium nitrite allowing you to smoke cured meats immediately after stuffing. It also acts as an anti-oxidant which prevents discoloration/pigmentation of meats treated with Cure. The latter is important for those using high-temp cheese in cured sausage, Erythorbate will act as a color stabilizer and prevent the meat directly in contact with the cheese from turning odd colors via oxidation (when this occurs it is not spoilage) and give it an even consistent appearance.

When used in sausage, add 1 ounce per 100 pounds of meat or 0.1 oz (1 Teaspoon) per 10 lbs.”

[calgarychef]

A few weeks ago I posted a link to the Alberta health food safety courses.
There’s one specifically for butchers... it’s a good idea to take it it’s free!

I’ve just spent a month creating a food safety course for at work, relearning some of this stuff has been a useful exercise.

Don’t forget that vacuum packing creates the ideal environment for botulism.
It’s not common, in fact it’s very uncommon but woe be to the family that gets it.
Botulism is one of the most toxic things on earth, and probably will be used for warfare sometime, a small amount can kill thousands of people.

For millennia people have cured with plain old salt, but they took their chances a bit. There are certain places in The world where natural nitrates occur in some of the salt, the romans prized these salts because of their excellent properties.
I like my bacon pink and safe to eat.

Salt would work if I knew more about what I’m doing, cure is a good and safe way to keep me and the people who eat my food safe. So because I’m not a recent immigrant with generations of family experience, I use cure. By the way not all of those old methods are safe, watch some on YouTube and you’ll wonder how people survive.


Nitrates won’t kill us or they would have a long time ago. If your bacon has brown/smelly/yucky areas in it throw it the hell away and start over.

I highly recommend the CTR refrigeration sausage course by the way, the instructor is knowledgeable and does a great job.

[Slurpee]

Originally Posted by Dean2

You are likely tasting rancid fat. Raw Pork fat goes off VERY quickly, even in a freezer it will go bad. What part of the slab, outside edge vs deeper cut has the bad flavour.

Thanks Dean.

This seems likely to be my problem!
The bad taste typically is on edge pieces and always with the fat.

Any tips on keeping it fresh while curing?

[Slurpee]

Originally Posted by EZM

We used to do bacon, prosciutto and belly for many, many years growing up from fresh pig.

Wet brine drastically reduces incidents of uncured/air sections of the fat and there's less chance of something going off and rancid.

Dry curing requires better refrigeration (air flow, circulation, temp accuracy), faster handling of the meat and twice as much cure/salt/spice and needs to be periodically patted down and turned over. Particularly if there isn't "free air" moving around the slabs (and you are stacking them).

Stacking them is bad when dry curing.

Typically we did a short dry cure *3 days maybe 4 tops then into the smoker for a blast or two (when the temp outside was 4 degrees c or cooler) so the dry cure process continued in the smokehouse and maintained safe temperatures.

That whole process is 4-6 days.

I have never had it curing for 10 days - but again, we did this European style with no "chemical additives". We also never got any rancid taste or spoilage as year and years of experience came from my grampa and dad.

Ultimately, I agree, sounds like a little of it went off and got rancid.

Awesome info thanks!

Maybe I’ll try a wet brine next time and see if I get better results.

[Slurpee]

Originally Posted by Swamp hunter

What did you use for cure? I'm assuming just kosher salt if you did ten days which is probably not enough. If you add a little Prague powder or cure to your salt 3 days is enough.
I've been doing bacon for 20 years and only dry cure with equal parts salt and brown sugar with what ever amount Prague cure for the quantity of meat I am doing. Then hot smoke between 100f-140f, usually 8 hours. Dry cure is the best way to cure hands down for the quality of product.
If you are salt curing only you need to salt daily and remove the liquid it draws from the meat until it is completely dry... sometimes more than 14 days.

Sounds like you have some info I need.

I used pink salt for the cure but the recipe I followed did not talk about draining the liquid out at anytime.

Would sitting in its own juices for all that time be an issue?

[Slurpee]

Originally Posted by bat119

I use this calculator for dry cure bacon

http://www.localfoodheroes.co.uk/cal...ry_cure_bacon/

Add any other spices for prefer I add lot's of black pepper some add maple syrup.

Only one slab per bag, after a day or two enough moisture will be drawn from the meat to cover it turn bags daily when the meat is stiff it's done.

So you don’t drain your bags at all?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[PartTimeHunter]

Originally Posted by Slurpee

So you don’t drain your bags at all?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not while it is still curing - no.

After posting the reply I read posts above yours. I dry cure and leave it sit in whatever fluid it makes till it is fully cured. Not sure about the draining that one poster mentioned - I think he was using salt only with no cure. There really won't be that much liquid in the bag. It all get dumped, rinsed and soaked once done curing for mine.

[Slurpee]

Originally Posted by PartTimeHunter

Not while it is still curing - no.

After posting the reply I read posts above yours. I dry cure and leave it sit in whatever fluid it makes till it is fully cured. Not sure about the draining that one poster mentioned - I think he was using salt only with no cure. There really won't be that much liquid in the bag. It all get dumped, rinsed and soaked once done curing for mine.

Ok.
Thx!

[Dean2]

Originally Posted by Slurpee

Thanks Dean.

This seems likely to be my problem!
The bad taste typically is on edge pieces and always with the fat.

Any tips on keeping it fresh while curing?

Dry curing meat I would also use cure along with salt and spice. You need WAY more salt to dry cure than you do to wet brine. Cure does not harm the flavour at all and provides an extra measure of safety. I would also follow EZM's advice to put it in the smoker after no more than 4 or 5 days if dry curing pork. I would hang the slabs so there is air all round or at least have on racks and only do as much as I could do in the fridge, not have them drip on each other, pan to collect the dripped moisture, turn the slabs daily and empty/soap and water clean the catch pan daily at the same time.

[calgarychef]

Originally Posted by Dean2

Dry curing meat I would also use cure along with salt and spice. You need WAY more salt to dry cure than you do to wet brine. Cure does not harm the flavour at all and provides an extra measure of safety. I would also follow EZM's advice to put it in the smoker after no more than 4 or 5 days if dry curing pork. I would hang the slabs so there is air all round or at least have on racks and only do as much as I could do in the fridge, not have them drip on each other, pan to collect the dripped moisture, turn the slabs daily and empty/soap and water clean the catch pan daily at the same time.

Dry cure you have to make sure it’s penetrated all the way 7-10 days per inch. Once it’s cured it will keep very any way so a day or two more won’t hurt, a day or 2 less is not good. You can leave them hanging at room temp qu8te a long time to dry a bit to form the pedicule. Over night not a problem...it’s cured and cured all the way through.

[dale7637]

What did you use for a brine recipe?

I’ve dry cured hundreds of pounds and haven’t had an issue yet. I use the eq method.