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  #61  
Old 05-13-2018, 09:45 AM
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I just want to shoot a deer in novemember. I am by no means looking to use this competitively........
That deer in November will not know what killed him. Get whatever rifle suites you, and carry on.
  #62  
Old 05-13-2018, 09:59 AM
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Ok, a little more in depth than what I had heard. Basically they said that the 7.62 was going to be used as a training tool for their snipers but real world be be the 6.5CM, jump to the 300WM, and then the 338Lapua, and then the 50.
300 and 338 Norma mag are floating around as rounds as well. 6.5 will be better than 7.62 up to a certain range but then it will fall off. Really going past 800m with a 6.5 or 7.62 when they can have a 300 win mag or Norma mag that will have more power makes sense.

No such thing as a perfect caliber. They all have there limitations. 6.5 will happen but it could be many years before it happens. They could shift direction and want to go to a 7mm round of some sort that could run a heavy bullet with great BC and velocity that would outperform 6.5 and 7.62. Then step up from there.
  #63  
Old 05-13-2018, 10:15 AM
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Maybe Elkhunter11 can explain to you why the CM would be a bad choice for that.
Perhaps Chuck can explain why the 260rem, or 6.5x55, or 7mm-08, or any one of several other similar cartridges would not kill a deer just as easily as the creedmoor? I never stated that the Creedmoor is a bad choice, but rather that it really offers no ballistic advantage that the average shooter would ever notice.
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  #64  
Old 05-13-2018, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
Perhaps Chuck can explain why the 260rem, or 6.5x55, or 7mm-08, or any one of several other similar cartridges would not kill a deer just as easily as the creedmoor? I never stated that the Creedmoor is a bad choice, but rather that it really offers no ballistic advantage that the average shooter would ever notice.
The point is, because of its popularity it offers advantages to the average shooter, isn't that obvious? With such minimal difference in performance, it's the ammo availability and the rifle selection that sets it above the pack.
  #65  
Old 05-13-2018, 10:30 AM
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With such minimal difference in performance, it's the ammo availability and the rifle selection that sets it above the pack.
Exactly my point, it's not the cartridge that makes it so popular, it's the marketing, and the result of the marketing is the ammo and rifle selection that is being made available to the consumer.
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  #66  
Old 05-13-2018, 10:43 AM
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Exactly my point, it's not the cartridge that makes it so popular, it's the marketing, and the result of the marketing is the ammo and rifle selection that is being made available to the consumer.

Bingo ! I really believe that Hornady was wise enough to have plenty of factory ammo readily available at the time it launched the CM. To do otherwise would have killed it on the spot. Seeing that success, the other ammo and rifle Mfgrs jumped in rather quickly.
It is a successful cartridge launch, no doubt, but the fairy dust that came with it isn't listed as an option.
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  #67  
Old 05-13-2018, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Salavee View Post
Bingo ! I really believe that Hornady was wise enough to have plenty of factory ammo readily available at the time it launched the CM. To do otherwise would have killed it on the spot. Seeing that success, the other ammo and rifle Mfgrs jumped in rather quickly.
It is a successful cartridge launch, no doubt, but the fairy dust that came with it isn't listed as an option.
Fairy dust was never listed as an option , be it in a 17 R.E.M., 284 Win, the various WSM's ,SAUM , Or any of the other cartridges ygatvwere fast out of the hole and booted at the first mud hole!
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  #68  
Old 05-13-2018, 11:36 AM
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Exactly my point, it's not the cartridge that makes it so popular, it's the marketing, and the result of the marketing is the ammo and rifle selection that is being made available to the consumer.
Nope. If it wasn't a great cartridge, not even great marketing could make it as popular as it is.

You don't have to admit it's a great cartridge, the cartridge speaks for itself. Most people can see that, some are in denial r
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Old 05-13-2018, 11:40 AM
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You should check out the sauer 100 Cherokee. That'll be my next rifle. But in 7-08 not creed.
  #70  
Old 05-13-2018, 11:43 AM
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Nope. If it wasn't a great cartridge, not even great marketing could make it as popular as it is.

You don't have to admit it's a great cartridge, the cartridge speaks for itself. Most people can see that, some are in denial r
Nobody said it wasn't a great cartridge. It is. Problem is, too may are trying to make something out of that it Is Not. Lots of Silk Purses out there already.
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Old 05-13-2018, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
Exactly my point, it's not the cartridge that makes it so popular, it's the marketing, and the result of the marketing is the ammo and rifle selection that is being made available to the consumer.
I think this is true with many of the cartridges these days. I honestly don't know what a 6.5 cm has over anything else that is tried and tried from the past.
  #72  
Old 05-13-2018, 11:53 AM
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I think this is true with many of the cartridges these days. I honestly don't know what a 6.5 cm has over anything else that is tried and tried from the past.

It has a short action with the ability for long for calibre bullets, whether that means anythibg to the average shooter or not is sort of beside the point, as is the fact it has innarguably been marketed well.

My objection has to marky_marks claim that it was innefective for use on big game....obviously a ridiculous claim based on the long history of the 6.5x55 on game.

There are always way too many cartridges, with far too little to differentiate beween them these days, the creed won because of marketing for sure, that doesn't make it bad.
  #73  
Old 05-13-2018, 11:54 AM
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Maybe Elkhunter11 can explain to you why the CM would be a bad choice for that.
Because, if you're not used to this cartridge, you'll aim high, being used to the .308, 6.5x55, etc., the 6.5CM won't drop as much, and your wounded animal will be lost.
  #74  
Old 05-13-2018, 12:08 PM
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Nobody said it wasn't a great cartridge. It is. Problem is, too may are trying to make something out of that it Is Not. Lots of Silk Purses out there already.
It's not manly enough?

Some people pack a big gun so they don't have to buy a big gun to feel manly
  #75  
Old 05-13-2018, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
Exactly my point, it's not the cartridge that makes it so popular, it's the marketing, and the result of the marketing is the ammo and rifle selection that is being made available to the consumer.
Who in the world is saying the cartridge performance is the reason for choosing it.
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  #76  
Old 05-13-2018, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by chuck View Post
Who in the world is saying the cartridge performance is the reason for choosing it.
Because this thread is about the 6.5 Creedmoor .... a cartridge. When did Hornady start building rifles ?
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  #77  
Old 05-13-2018, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by chuck View Post
Who in the world is saying the cartridge performance is the reason for choosing it.
The thread is about a particular cartridge, not about a particular rifle. If it was just a matter of popularity, and the selection of rifles and ammunition availble for the cartridge, the 308win, or the 30-06 would be the obvious choice.
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  #78  
Old 05-13-2018, 12:27 PM
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I may have a Browning X-bolt CM for sale very soon if you like that brand and model.
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Last edited by 270person; 05-13-2018 at 12:33 PM.
  #79  
Old 05-13-2018, 12:30 PM
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Who in the world is saying the cartridge performance is the reason for choosing it.
Chuck, I think I nailed down most of the reasons this would be a good choice in cartridge aside from just its performance, the video you posted proves it's an extremely capable cartridge at ranges out to 600yds on large game like elk.

I guess we'll have to wait for the "I'm selling my Creedmoor cause I keep losing game" threads to pop up...... I'm not holding my breath for that one.
  #80  
Old 05-13-2018, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
The thread is about a particular cartridge, not about a particular rifle. If it was just a matter of popularity, and the selection of rifles and ammunition availble for the cartridge, the 308win, or the 30-06 would be the obvious choice.

Were you aware the CM actually outperforms the .308 in some areas? Granted some of these are outside "normal" hunting ranges but it def has benefits. Not a whole lot of powder required to get things moving which is nice. Very manageable recoil as well for those so inclined.
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  #81  
Old 05-13-2018, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Kurt505 View Post
It's not manly enough?

Some people pack a big gun so they don't have to buy a big gun to feel manly
.. and others have tried them all and settled on what they found works best for them. Believe it or not, some are still looking for the ultimate killer combo that has no weight or recoil and flattens them all at 1000 yds. A fun quest maybe, but not very practical.
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  #82  
Old 05-13-2018, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by SakoShooter View Post
It has a short action with the ability for long for calibre bullets, whether that means anythibg to the average shooter or not is sort of beside the point, as is the fact it has innarguably been marketed well.

My objection has to marky_marks claim that it was innefective for use on big game....obviously a ridiculous claim based on the long history of the 6.5x55 on game.

There are always way too many cartridges, with far too little to differentiate beween them these days, the creed won because of marketing for sure, that doesn't make it bad.
Well said!
  #83  
Old 05-13-2018, 01:18 PM
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Chuck, I think I nailed down most of the reasons this would be a good choice in cartridge aside from just its performance, the video you posted proves it's an extremely capable cartridge at ranges out to 600yds on large game like elk.

I guess we'll have to wait for the "I'm selling my Creedmoor cause I keep losing game" threads to pop up...... I'm not holding my breath for that one.

The use and promotion of the 6.5 CM at 600 yds on Elk is ridiculous and most anyone with any savvy at all will guarantee that you will not hear much about just how grossly inept that cartridge it is in that application. YouTube notwithstanding. Van Zwoll ?? He's a Professional Promoter. What did you expect to see ?
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  #84  
Old 05-13-2018, 01:28 PM
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  #85  
Old 05-13-2018, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
The thread is about a particular cartridge, not about a particular rifle. If it was just a matter of popularity, and the selection of rifles and ammunition availble for the cartridge, the 308win, or the 30-06 would be the obvious choice.
Yes, and the virtues of that cartridge have been shared on this thread. NONE of which states how it kills game.
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  #86  
Old 05-13-2018, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Salavee View Post
The use and promotion of the 6.5 CM at 600 yds on Elk is ridiculous and most anyone with any savvy at all will guarantee that you will not hear much about just how grossly inept that cartridge it is in that application. YouTube notwithstanding. Van Zwoll ?? He's a Professional Promoter. What did you expect to see ?
What are you expecting to go wrong?
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  #87  
Old 05-13-2018, 01:58 PM
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Because, if you're not used to this cartridge, you'll aim high, being used to the .308, 6.5x55, etc., the 6.5CM won't drop as much, and your wounded animal will be lost.
Nosler Trophy ammo is loaded to the same speed in the 6.5x55 and Creedmoor. I’ve reloaded 6.5x55 up to 300 FPS faster in a strong action before getting any tightness of bolt. Both have outstanding accuracy.
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Old 05-13-2018, 02:07 PM
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Three pages of what has been discussed so far?

The 6.5 Crudmoore is all the hype, today.

Good for it.

It does what, that other cartridges can’t?

It’s a 6.5 and there’s a plethora of other 6.5’s so close to its performance window you might as well lump them all together.

A better mouse trap it isn’t.

If you want one go buy it!

It’s about wants at this point.

You’re a grown man hopefully you don’t need some sort of permission.
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Old 05-13-2018, 02:12 PM
Norwest Alta Norwest Alta is offline
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Thanks sako
  #90  
Old 05-13-2018, 02:14 PM
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Here is what John Barsness has to say on the subject. A better mousetrap? It might be.

“You, like many others, refuse to even try to get it.

I've posted something similar to this many times before:

1) The 6.5 Creedmoor was designed from the ground up as cartridge that would fit in standard short-action magazines with ANY bullet. Neither the .260 nor the 6.5x55 does. Whether you (or others) don't think short actions are the deal, MANY other shooters do.

2) The 6.5 Creedmoor case has features that result in finer accuracy, on average better than the .260 or (especially) the 6.5x55. One is a shorter powder column, the other a 30-degree shoulder. Both have been demonstrated, many times, over the past several decades to result in finer accuracy.

These advantages are NOT theoretical. I have now owned three factory 6.5 Creedmoors, all relatively or really inexpensive, played around with another factory rifle, and also a semi-custom rifle. Also have several friends who own factory 6.5 Creedmoors we've range-tested together. The WORST accuracy I've seen from any of them, including factory ammo, is 5-shot (not 3-shot) one-inch groups at 100 yards.

The most accurate of all five I've owned, or tested personally, is a rifle costing around $400 retail. It's very first group at 100 yards, with a handload I'd found shot well in most Creedmoors, measured .33 inch. And that was five shots, not three. In the same rifle, most factory loads group three shots well under 3/4" at 100 yards.

3) I can just about bet which cartridge the local, long-range gunsmith uses. There are indeed recent 6.5 cartridges as good as the 6.5 Creedmoor, but none of them offer such an "affordable" package, whether in excellent, "affordable" brass, a variety of very accurate "affordable" factory loads, and a variety of accurate "affordable" factory rifles.

4) I own an accurate .260 and 6.5x55. In fact they're the most accurate rifles in either chambering I've ever owned, and I've owned several .260's and 6.5x55's.

The .260 is a Tikka T3, but to shoot its best I had to modify the magazine to accept 2.95" handloads, so bullets could be seated out to the lands. This wasn't just for "high-BC" bullets, but some common hunting bullets.

The 6.5x55 is a custom rifle on an FN Mauser commercial action, with a medium-contour Lilja 1-8 twist barrel. It was chambered with a custom match reamer with a shorter throat, by a gunsmith well-known for very accurate hunting rifles--who's built half a dozen other, very accurate rifles for me and my wife. Using Lapua brass and all the standard accuracy handloading techniques, it still isn't as consistently accurate as the $400 6.5 Creedmoor, and has never shot a 5-shot group anywhere near .33 inch.

Then there's the fact that throat lengths in 6.5x55's are "all over the place." Which is exactly what that accuracy gunsmith said before he barreled my rifle. Which is why factory 6.5x55 ammo, whether made in the U.S. or Europe, often doesn't shoot nearly as accurately as factory 6.5 Creedmoor ammo.

I am not selling either my .260 or 6.5x55, and will continue to hunt with both. But if I want or desire the finest accuracy, would use my $400 Creedmoor.

5) While super-accuracy doesn't matter in shooting big game out to, say, 300 or even 400 yards, I have known very few avid hunters who prefer LESS accuracy. And yes, despite the.270 or 7mm-08 (or whatever) being capable of more muzzle velocity with the same bullet weights, there is a noticeable difference in accuracy and wind drift at longer range with the 6.5 Creedmoor, and no noticeable different in "killing power."

After 8 years of testing (and hunting) with 6.5 Creedmoors, I am convinced it's "cartridge design" is superior. Hornady brass has been very consistent, both dimensionally and over the years, and like the wide variety of factory rifles now chambered for the CM is very "affordable." There are real reasons it's become a standard factory chambering, and almost every ammo manufacturer now produces 6.5 Creedmoor ammo--and not just in America but around the world.

Now I am going to copy and paste this into my computer's documents, so I can copy and paste it into all future repetitive Campfire posts questioning the validity of the 6.5 Creedmoor's popularity. It's not worth writing a new post for shooters who apparently aren't willing to attempt to understand the cartridge.”
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