How to avoid being scammed on the internet...

[silverdoctor]

lets have at it... Seems at least once a week someone posts about being scammed. Lets get a discussion going on due diligence and save people some money and heartache. I'll throw in some tech stuff later.

[Kurt505]

Excellent thread Doc, maybe worthy of a sticky.

[Dom4]

I totally agree on the great idea of this thread but it is truly sad that we need to have this sort of thing.

[HunterDave]

Don't send people that you don't know Western Union money transfers or EMT. You just might as well send them cash as it's pretty much the same.

[Dacotensis]

Learn to do your own mechanical repairs


Oops.
Internet scams...

Deal face to face.

[bat119]

What I learned so far

Be very wary of response to WTB adds
Check sellers feedback, contact some previous buyers to check
Never use EMT or money transfers COD is looking better all the time
Ask if a friend of relative can stop by for inspection, even if you don't know anybody it should initiate a response.

Lets be darn careful out there!

[score]

Good thread. Really too bad it's needed.

I was ripped off for $600.00 by a long standing member (at the time) with a long list of positive trader feed back. Talked on the phone several times, e-mails. He said he wanted the items for his daughter for Christmas so I sent them in time. Always promises, having a hard time he said but I will pay you, etc., etc.. He never did.

I will only deal face to face now. The seller is covered and the buyer sees exactly what they are paying for.
That said however, there are a few guys here still that I would trust 100%.

[outcampn]

If it sounds too good to be true, then it probably is.

[rugatika]

Cash in hand for goods in hand.

Otherwise, be prepared for the possibility of a loss.

[Boogerfart]

You can ship COD with Canada Post, I've done it a few times with guys I didn't know. They can't have the package unless they pay, then you get paid by Canada Post. It's not a bad system. I do however strongly prefer to meet face to face and deal with cash- it solves so many problems and lets you meet fellow members. I've made a few friends this way since I joined. It's easy to take pictures from just the right angle so everything looks good, then you open the box and wonder if it's the same rifle...
It's happened to me and I'm sure it's happened to many others, I don't usually make deals that can't be done in person any more, it's just asking for trouble.

[qwert]

Caveat emptor is a Latin term that means "let the buyer beware." Similar to the phrase "sold as is," this term means that the buyer assumes the risk that a product may fail to meet expectations or have defects.

This forum (like the APRA Homestead Range) is attempting to clean out abusive behaviors and users.
Both are difficult and probably unending tasks that can only succeed with the full co-operation and support from other users.

IMHO, the 'trader ratings system' is well intentioned, but just provides users with a false sense of security and no real protection from a motivated scammer.

The Buy & Sell forums are a great way to connect interested buyers and sellers.
One thing that the mods could do is to enforce the existing requirement to list a location in ALL ads.
"It is up to ALL sellers to ensure the necessary information is provided when posting an advertisement. NO price, NO location, or NO details will result in your advertisement being removed!"

Many ads list a price 'shipped' but do not provide a 'required' location, which means a PM request is needed to determine if a face to face is possible or worthwhile. Many ads request EMT and assume that buyers should be prepared to send money to someone they do not know and for goods they have not seen.

I have little sympathy for buyers who are so gullible as to send personal identification or money to someone they do not know and for goods they have not seen. Like trusting but uninformed voters, they get what they deserve and do great disservice to more cautious others.

I will never do a remote deal that requires me to place trust in an unknown person. I have done lots of deals using the Buy & Sell forum but they have ALL been 'face to face', some have required significant travel, but none have incurred additional costs or risks of shipping or money transfer. I have used Postal COD to send goods to people I know, but have no reason to completely trust.

Good Luck, YMMV.

[kevinhits]

I finally got one of those infamous Microsoft calls saying your computer is infected and needed to be fixed....I told him that I do not own a computer or laptop.....He was silent then and I started blasting him for being a piece of **** and alot more that involves MF...if you know what I mean...Totally lost it on this guy

And I felt so good once I got off the phone..LOL

[averagejoe]

You can always ask for the seller to place a note with their user name and date next to the item in the pictures and maybe some odd words or an item just to prove that they own it instead of stealing some ones pictures.

[mudbug]

Originally Posted by Boogerfart

You can ship COD with Canada Post, I've done it a few times with guys I didn't know. They can't have the package unless they pay, then you get paid by Canada Post. It's not a bad system. I do however strongly prefer to meet face to face and deal with cash- it solves so many problems and lets you meet fellow members. I've made a few friends this way since I joined. It's easy to take pictures from just the right angle so everything looks good, then you open the box and wonder if it's the same rifle...
It's happened to me and I'm sure it's happened to many others, I don't usually make deals that can't be done in person any more, it's just asking for trouble.

COD with Canada post is what I use most, that and face to face

[catnthehat]

I like face to face, but will do EMT if I know the person well enough to my satisfaction, or we have a mutual friend who can vouch for us.
But even that is not fool proof.
I remember Oldgutpile being out a mess of money from a guy who I had done several transactions with, without any hassles at all.
When he asked me if I knew the guy's name I was quite surprised.

Cat

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by kevinhits

I finally got one of those infamous Microsoft calls saying your computer is infected and needed to be fixed....I told him that I do not own a computer or laptop.....He was silent then and I started blasting him for being a piece of **** and alot more that involves MF...if you know what I mean...Totally lost it on this guy

And I felt so good once I got off the phone..LOL

Sigh. Wrong way to handle. Make a half hour tape of you saying. "Hmm. I see. Let me think." Long pause. "Then not sure I understand. Can you explain it again". Long pause. Say "hmmm". Followed by "please hold while I check that".

Otherwise just see how long you can keep them talking before they realize your not buying what they are selling.

Or do what this guy did.

Cranking a sales call

If that classic don't crack you up you are one cold person.

[silverdoctor]

If I need to buy online, unless I know the person I'm dealing with - everyone is treated as possible scammer. I don't care if you have had 100 great transactions - transaction 101 can cost you alot of money and complacency gets more scammed than I care to think about.

First and foremost, if someone contacts you via email looking to buy or sell - google their email address. If one link kicks back as a possible scammer - run... Don't go any further, just ignore.

Google the name of the person, many times they use an alias over and over. Google whatever information they give you.

Keep hearing talk about IP addresses. Yes you CAN get lucky and obtain the originating IP address from an email header. First of all, you cannot track someone to their home using any legal tools on the internet. Geo-location doesn't work as well as people claim. I'll use hotmail or outlook.com as an example on how to look up an IP address. You can google how to do it in gmail or any other mail system.

Log into outlook.com, right click on any message and click on "view message source". This will open a new window full of text. On the second line of text, you should find something like this:

Authentication-Results: hotmail.com; spf=pass (sender IP is 205.201.128.17; identity alignment result is fail and alignment mode is relaxed) smtp.mailfrom=bounce

So you have an IP address of 205.201.128.17 - now you need to do a lookup to see if it's valid. Go to http://cqcounter.com/whois/ and enter that IP into the search box, click on the "whois" button and you should get a response back. Now look at the info and where does it trace to?

If it shows Redmond or Microsoft hosting, or google hosting, then whomever emailed you is probably logged into hotmail or gmail and sending email through the browser. Chances are good you won't be able to trace it with any known tools. If the IP traces to China, Russia, Ukraine or anywhere outside of Canada - just ignore it. However, you may get lucky and they have the account loaded into microsoft outlook or the live client etc or from their phone.

If you get lucky and get an IP that traces to shaw, or telus or bell etc and it's somewhere close to where the seller/buyer states, great. Doesn't mean they aren't a scammer.
Punch the IP address into google - does it come back with any red flags at all? If google comes back clean, then you can probably proceed with talking to the seller/buyer.

Still doesn't mean they are not a scammer. Google any and all information you get.


Don't scan your PAL and send it to anyone, you don't need to. If someone requests a copy of your PAL - don't walk - run. You don't need the police knocking on your door asking questions about your ID scamming people out of guns or money.

I've heard people tell me they show their PAL over Skype. Do you realize how easy it is to record video? You're not doing it over skype itself, much free software will allow you to record areas of a screen of your computer.

The list goes on and on and on...

[kevinhits]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

Sigh. Wrong way to handle. Make a half hour tape of you saying. "Hmm. I see. Let me think." Long pause. "Then not sure I understand. Can you explain it again". Long pause. Say "hmmm". Followed by "please hold while I check that".

Otherwise just see how long you can keep them talking before they realize your not buying what they are selling.

Or do what this guy did.

Cranking a sales call

If that classic don't crack you up you are one cold person.

I have heard of these calls many times thinking how I would play along and I was shocked with this call as usually I do not answer....So, yeah...I froze..LOL..Thinking how I can screw this scum bag

There will always be a next time..LOL

[silverdoctor]

Anyone stop to wonder how they got your phone number in the first place? They aren't random dialling phone numbers - they probably have a good idea of whom they are speaking with.

[RandyBoBandy]

Originally Posted by silverdoctor

If I need to buy online, unless I know the person I'm dealing with - everyone is treated as possible scammer. I don't care if you have had 100 great transactions - transaction 101 can cost you alot of money and complacency gets more scammed than I care to think about.

First and foremost, if someone contacts you via email looking to buy or sell - google their email address. If one link kicks back as a possible scammer - run... Don't go any further, just ignore.

Google the name of the person, many times they use an alias over and over. Google whatever information they give you.

Keep hearing talk about IP addresses. Yes you CAN get lucky and obtain the originating IP address from an email header. First of all, you cannot track someone to their home using any legal tools on the internet. Geo-location doesn't work as well as people claim. I'll use hotmail or outlook.com as an example on how to look up an IP address. You can google how to do it in gmail or any other mail system.

Log into outlook.com, right click on any message and click on "view message source". This will open a new window full of text. On the second line of text, you should find something like this:


So you have an IP address of 205.201.128.17 - now you need to do a lookup to see if it's valid. Go to http://cqcounter.com/whois/ and enter that IP into the search box, click on the "whois" button and you should get a response back. Now look at the info and where does it trace to?

If it shows Redmond or Microsoft hosting, or google hosting, then whomever emailed you is probably logged into hotmail or gmail and sending email through the browser. Chances are good you won't be able to trace it with any known tools. If the IP traces to China, Russia, Ukraine or anywhere outside of Canada - just ignore it. However, you may get lucky and they have the account loaded into microsoft outlook or the live client etc or from their phone.

If you get lucky and get an IP that traces to shaw, or telus or bell etc and it's somewhere close to where the seller/buyer states, great. Doesn't mean they aren't a scammer.
Punch the IP address into google - does it come back with any red flags at all? If google comes back clean, then you can probably proceed with talking to the seller/buyer.

Still doesn't mean they are not a scammer. Google any and all information you get.


Don't scan your PAL and send it to anyone, you don't need to. If someone requests a copy of your PAL - don't walk - run. You don't need the police knocking on your door asking questions about your ID scamming people out of guns or money.

I've heard people tell me they show their PAL over Skype. Do you realize how easy it is to record video? You're not doing it over skype itself, much free software will allow you to record areas of a screen of your computer.

The list goes on and on and on...

^^ GOLD thanks silverdoctor

[schmedlap]

Originally Posted by kevinhits

I have heard of these calls many times thinking how I would play along and I was shocked with this call as usually I do not answer....So, yeah...I froze..LOL..Thinking how I can screw this scum bag

There will always be a next time..LOL

for calls that are obvious scams - "this is --- from CRA", or the display number is "0000..." or even my own number (that has happened twice).
Answer "RCMP, K division, fraud squad, Constable Smith here, how may I help you?" They hang up and never call again. Surprise, surprise ??

[kevinhits]

Originally Posted by schmedlap

for calls that are obvious scams - "this is --- from CRA", or the display number is "0000..." or even my own number (that has happened twice).
Answer "RCMP, K division, fraud squad, Constable Smith here, how may I help you?" They hang up and never call again. Surprise, surprise ??

Yeah...That is fun but it is even better strolling them along for awhile

[silverdoctor]

There was a thread here a while back that people were posting emails and IP's of the scammers themselves - should be located and brought back up.

I hope people realize that google seems to be feasting on AO forum, and posts show up in google search pretty quick. If scammers names or email address show up from AO, it's at least a credible source for people to read.

[Dewey Cox]

I can give you tips for how not to be scammed on the internet.
Send me $49.95 plus $15.00 for shipping and handling and I'll send you a book of tips for how not to be scammed on the internet.

[bigbor]

Originally Posted by silverdoctor

lets have at it... Seems at least once a week someone posts about being scammed. Lets get a discussion going on due diligence and save people some money and heartache. I'll throw in some tech stuff later.

Throw your computer in the garbage

[KGB]

Originally Posted by outcampn

if it sounds too good to be true, then it probably is.

^^this!!!