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  #31  
Old 12-22-2010, 07:59 PM
cohod cohod is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Pioneer2 View Post
Sounds like you've already made up your mind why bother with a debate?
^^^Pretty much sums it up.

what are your thoughts on trapping?...

cohod
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  #32  
Old 12-22-2010, 08:03 PM
M70 M70 is offline
 
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"Anthropogenic"? I think you mean anthropomorphic. And no, I don't think that coyotes are "bad". I just think that the more aggressive ones need to be pushed back to make their living away from my house and my animals (including my pets).
  #33  
Old 12-22-2010, 08:04 PM
garand garand is offline
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Originally Posted by Traps View Post
I agree with the OP. I hunt things I can eat, if I can't eat it then there is no point in shooting it. Killing for the sake of killing or "because I can" is a hollow statement. Its has little sustenance. Satisfaction by the individual in ending a life is for no other reason other than the anthropogenic basis that coyotes are bad. Try that argument with an anti-hunter and you'll soon see why hunters get a bad rap and we are painted with such distaste.

It was never human nature to kill something and leave it. The only time I can see hunting these animals is if they are influencing a livelihood.
I think shooting them and leaving them is a waste.

This is a side effect risen out of anti-hunting and anti-fur lobbies that have made them nearly worthless.

I have had that discussion with the anti's. I like to ask them to defend the choice of their clothing over something that is used "only for its fur". It is sustainable and part of the natural world that can be managed. Even though the meat may not be fit for human consumption, it sustains other creatures like ravens etc. Do we have to use it for our own personal consumption to make it ethical? What if it keeps me warm and sustains my life?

If the anti's hadn't made it uncool to wear fur the "management" of coyotes wouldn't be in question.

And to say I respect the coyote would be an understatement. Another one of the neat creatures in our world for sure.
  #34  
Old 12-22-2010, 08:06 PM
farmsniper farmsniper is offline
 
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For every coyote that is seen and shot, there are probably half a dozen that go unseen. There is so much cover and area for them to live and hide that no matter how many you shoot, there will always be more around the next corner! For the last Month I've seen coyotes nearly everyday around the farm and layed down 8 to rest since November. Shot one yesterday and one this morning while feeding cows. When you shoot them your doing a favor to everyone. Farmers are happy the coyotes arent after their calves, acreage owners are happy the coyotes aren't teasing or hurting their domestic dogs and cats, stopping the spread of mange, and helping upland game numbers, waterfowl hatching mortality, saving 'bambi' s , etc. Etc!!! Once they pack up they can easily take down a full size deer! I've seen a packs of 4 and a pack of 6! There are more than enough around. Thinning them out should be encouraged! That's my to cents!
  #35  
Old 12-22-2010, 08:10 PM
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These topics get old! For those who don't see a problem hunting them( myself definitly included ) continue shooting and enjoy it, coyote hunting is a great sport in my opinion. And for those who disagree well everyone has a right to and opinion and the right to follow through with what you think is right but this argument is a go nowhere topic. So each to their own and starting these threads is just looking for conflict so whats the point.
  #36  
Old 12-22-2010, 08:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garand View Post
Do we have to use it for our own personal consumption to make it ethical? What if it keeps me warm and sustains my life?

Do we need to consume it, no we don't really, do we need to use the coyote in some way the answer at least to me is yes. If that means you sell the fur to sustain the family or to keep you warm then its also a yes.
  #37  
Old 12-22-2010, 08:20 PM
antlercarver antlercarver is offline
 
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At 60+ years I have taken 100"s of animals on the trapline and killed many deer or moose for the table. One year 120 coyotes at $60 average, but I can never understand killing for the love of it. Getting pleasure or joy from the death of a living thing must have some disconnect from the natural world. Farms with coyote predation usually starts with poor disposal of dead animals. I live in the bush and I could go on this topic on many levels, but some will understand and others find arguments to suit their wants. Merry Christmas to all
  #38  
Old 12-22-2010, 08:24 PM
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Friends of mine that live just inside city limits had their Spaniel pup accidentally slip out the door on them and before it got to the back fence a yote had it. They followed the cries right away only to find it half dead and the only humane thing to do was put it out of it's misery. Then try to explain to the girls that the yotes are just doing what comes naturally. We are overrun with the little PR's and if I see one when I'm carrying, it's a dead yote.
  #39  
Old 12-22-2010, 08:27 PM
thenaturalwoodsman thenaturalwoodsman is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beansgunsghandi View Post
Nobody has to show me anything, agreed, but it's an honest question. So far there's not much in any response to support randomly killing coyotes, or that doing such is a "proud" achievement in any way beyond perhaps marksmanship. There are many people on here who have killing coyotes as a way of life and history (many in my family as well), but that doesn't make doing something right.

The last time I responded to one of your useless posts it got me banned from here for 10 days, so I will keep my opinion to myself about you and this thread, because I already know that you know everything, and what you don't know we all have to prove it to you!!!!

Oh and merry christmas!!!!
  #40  
Old 12-22-2010, 08:33 PM
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chain2 chain2 is offline
 
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Smile I dont shoot the ones around the farm.

Over the years you get to recognize a old pair will run off the new pups, interlopers and tend to leave a good birth around the house area. I have shot at them so they're kept honest thou. The coyotes I dont mind having around but foxxes I try to clip every one I see and I useally have a dose of them [fox] when the old coyotes are shot outa the area. I was a coyote killing fool in my youth and it seemed the more Id shoot, the more there was to shoot, that my take on my it. Same goes for beavers you cant get em all if you do they come back harder next year...giver thou lord knows I had fun huntin em...chain
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  #41  
Old 12-22-2010, 08:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huntinstuff View Post
Frankly, I don't think it is up to anyone here to "convince" you or "show you the evidence".

If it is something you are willing to research yourself, go ahead. I'm sure you will find everything you need out there somewhere. Then perhaps you will share your study with us. If not, you will at least have satisfied your curiosity.

All my best and Merry Christmas
Amen!
  #42  
Old 12-22-2010, 08:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Traps View Post
I agree with the OP. I hunt things I can eat, if I can't eat it then there is no point in shooting it. Killing for the sake of killing or "because I can" is a hollow statement. Its has little sustenance. Satisfaction by the individual in ending a life is for no other reason other than the anthropogenic basis that coyotes are bad. Try that argument with an anti-hunter and you'll soon see why hunters get a bad rap and we are painted with such distaste.

It was never human nature to kill something and leave it. The only time I can see hunting these animals is if they are influencing a livelihood.
Good one , next time you quote me, quote the whole dammed post.
I do not kill just " because I can" as you seem to want people to believe.
better still , don't bother, I'm tired of people like you anyway.
Cat
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  #43  
Old 12-22-2010, 08:50 PM
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Here ya go....may I suggest a different website? You may find their views more to your liking.

http://www.peta.org/

Last edited by archer66; 12-22-2010 at 09:14 PM. Reason: Correct a typo
  #44  
Old 12-22-2010, 08:54 PM
rugatika rugatika is offline
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Default hmm

If there's one thing I hate (after commies) is some sanctimonious, holier than thou SOB, cawing about how morally superior he is to everyone else that doesn't live life the way he does.

Makes me wish I had some time to go blast some yotes. They're dog killing, calf thieving, vermin...and that's reason enough for me. Glad this country hasn't totally gone the way of PETA...YET!
  #45  
Old 12-22-2010, 08:57 PM
garand garand is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antlercarver View Post
At 60+ years I have taken 100"s of animals on the trapline and killed many deer or moose for the table. One year 120 coyotes at $60 average, but I can never understand killing for the love of it. Getting pleasure or joy from the death of a living thing must have some disconnect from the natural world. Farms with coyote predation usually starts with poor disposal of dead animals. I live in the bush and I could go on this topic on many levels, but some will understand and others find arguments to suit their wants. Merry Christmas to all
at 60 I was still shipping fur too. The lot that I averaged 12 dollars on made me question whether it was worth it. To be honest I haven't actively hunted them since, just taken the ones that present themselves while I am out. They are to damn stinky to do for the fun of it, and at 12 dollars that is about it.
I am from the flat ground - and predation here is mostly a function of hungry dogs. Feedlots have changed that some as u suggest.
Merry Christmas to you too
  #46  
Old 12-22-2010, 09:08 PM
pitw pitw is offline
 
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I believe Jamie's reply shocked me the most of any.
I agree that bounty's don't work wonders cause there is evidence to support it. The coyote has been hunted from aircraft, snow machine, trucks, quads, called, baited, poisoned and a host of other methods and they came right through it. I also agree that shooting and leaving them is just a waste of a couple twenty dollar bills[already had people on here say how they throw money away so it doesn't surprise me]. If the coyotes are coming onto an acreage or town to get your dogs you should maybe talk to your neighbors who are actively feeding the wild animals and thusly taming them down and attracting more predators in. I hunt/trap coyotes for there hide and the fact that I have free ranging birds that look mighty tasty to them and land owners require my abilities cause they don't have the time or want to do it.
Barry
  #47  
Old 12-22-2010, 09:18 PM
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buckbrushoutdoors buckbrushoutdoors is offline
 
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I was born with forward facing eyes, sharp ripping teeth, great eye sight and hearing. Iam fast and silent, Iam smarter and learn habbits of my prey. Iam a hunter!
It is who we are whether or not you agree with hunting. If I can kill the smartest and most cunning animal in the woods or praries, Iam the top predator and will be till I become part of the food chain.
Unfortuntaly so many people mostly my aged young people have lost sight of this. Killing predators has been around for thousands of years just read one Capstick novel there is much insight into where we came from.
  #48  
Old 12-22-2010, 09:27 PM
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As I stated in the other thread, I do not agree with your assertations beansgunsghandi, but respect your right to express them. I am also glad I live in a country that allows you to do so. Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

I will not judge a person over what they do legally. Not my place. And yes I shoot coyotes and Richardsons Ground Squirrels (gophers) and enjoy it.
  #49  
Old 12-22-2010, 09:32 PM
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Although coyotes seldom attack people, sometimes they do, particularly children - and every coyote attack that I'm familar with (one in Jasper townsite and two in Canmore) have been where coyotes are protected.

If nothing else, hunting coyotes conditions them to give humans a wide berth.
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  #50  
Old 12-22-2010, 09:39 PM
Deer Hunter Deer Hunter is offline
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Coyotes are incredible animals in which I have alot of respect for.

I dont shoot the early season pups because I dont like the idea of them not having a sporting chance. By December, they are smart enough that they can look out for themselves.

I agree that coyote hunting is alot of fun. It's no different than any other type of hunting in that regard.

Animals dont live forever. Nor do we expect them to have a 70 year life span. Coyotes will all die at some point in time. Whether at the end of my barrel or at the hand of mange or starvation. I cant imagine death is alot of fun especially when all your fur has fallen off at minus 30.

I dont personally skin and sell the furs but I try not to let the animals go to waste. Some have, but most dont.

If your correct that the more you shoot, the more there is, then you should believe your own evidence and be a proponent of shooting coyotes as a means of population growth. My side to your evidence is that we will never rid the world of the coyote ( nor would we want to) and we should use this resource as we do other game animals.

Its obvious that you have alot of respect for these animals, more so than you do for your fellow sportsman.

Just my opinion.
  #51  
Old 12-22-2010, 09:39 PM
albertadave albertadave is offline
 
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A couple years ago I was sitting, watching a dead pile. I killed two coyotes with one shot. True story. I know it has nothing to do with the thread topic, but it was freakin' awesome, and I just had to mention it. Merry Christmas everyone.
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  #52  
Old 12-22-2010, 09:42 PM
nanuk-O-dah-Nort nanuk-O-dah-Nort is offline
 
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Default it is also about behaviour control

you educate coyotes by hunting them, making them leery of close contact with humans and domestic animals.

as the population grows, they get hungry, start to hunt outside their area of food and pets, children, et al are at risk

I don't hunt them, but I have shot at them when they come in my yard to kill my pets.

it is like shooting a raven and leaving it up on the roof of the shed. NO ravens will come into your yard while the dead one is up there
  #53  
Old 12-22-2010, 09:53 PM
beansgunsghandi beansgunsghandi is offline
 
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Default Some responses

M70, I think that's a decent reason to shoot coyotes in problem areas, as long as it's done regularly enough that they actually learn. Randomly shooting won't likely help much.

220: Tofu is sneaky, you'd be surprised. Anyhow, in your next post you defined the difference between randomly shooting coyotes and protecting an operation consistently. I think others have pointed out the other issues.

Hunterdave: That's scientific fact, check the referenced link, lots out there on the same subject if you're interested.

Cohod: I don't know enough about trapping to have a strong view on it.

Farmsniper: If "thinning them out" is your goal then you're likely increasing the population, or doing very little useful at best. This is the problem with random predator control, it doesn't apparently do much...

Woodsmen: Well then Merry Christmas too, and same to everyone! That is a bigger thing than all of this really.

Chain2: Consistency sounds like it's important, and does help. This makes sense to me, and is supported by the evidence I can find.

Jamie: Your call on that really, or you could ask a collection of people.

Schian: Randomly shooting a coyote based on reasons that don't make scientific or even common sense is not the same as shooting an animal you're going to eat. For one you're going to eat it, not just waste it.

Garand: Thanks for that, that's different and genuinely useful information, and I learned something. Sometime I'd love to buy you a beer and talk about this, I'll bet you've seen some life. I'll go through your post individually later, I'd like to learn some more about a few things you wrote.

Sneeze: Predators don't generally waste what they kill. Sometimes, but rare. Merry Christmas to you too.

I appreciate every post that attempts to give some reasons for killing coyotes, and I'm learning a few things about both coyotes and human nature, thanks.
  #54  
Old 12-22-2010, 09:55 PM
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I was watching a doc on the coyotes grabbing small dogs on leashes in Stanley Park.

Coyotes naturally would be controlled by wolves and alike as proven with the reintroduction of wolves in Yellow Stone.

They will continue to push the boundries unless controlled.

I am very thankful to those who hunt coyotes, wolves, bears and cats although it is not something that interests me. I have seen more preditors in the last couple years than in the past twenty.

While driving with my son looking for grouse I told him to take a good look at a cougar crossing the road as he may never see another. Except for a couple miles down the road when another walked out.

Both walked out onto the road, stopped and walked slowly off. One was less than a hundred yards and walked up the road away from us as we creaped along behind him for a couple hundred yards.

I wanted to show him the tracks so I drove up to where we last saw him. I was hanging out the window looking for the tracks and out he comes again only 50 yards in front of the truck.

This was just west of Rimbey not out in the mountains.

Leave these critters alone and people are going to get hurt.
  #55  
Old 12-22-2010, 09:58 PM
beansgunsghandi beansgunsghandi is offline
 
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Default Well done.

Glad you pulled through Bobby B, sounds like a tough situation. Why, just the other day I had a pack of 12 at my door, they smelled the deer stew and came from miles around. I used my Defender on 'em, but some were zombies and took a double tap to keep down. I couldn't even open my door to shoot, blew it clean off the hinges! Wild times indeed. A sense of humor helps.
  #56  
Old 12-22-2010, 10:11 PM
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KegRiver KegRiver is offline
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A few years ago I was living in High Level.
One afternoon I see a F&W truck enter the company yard and drive around behind our shop. So I ask the boss if he has any idea what they might be doing on our property. Not to object, just curious.
He tells me they are tending to some Coyote traps they have set in our sand pile. Why would F&W be trapping Coyotes in the summer I wanted to know.
Seems that some partier passed out in a back ally in town and a Coyote found him there. It tried to eat him, and did succeed in gnawing off his ear.
My buddy has been hunting and trapping those Coyotes around town for years. It is extremely rare to see a Coyote in the town of High Level yet that summer F&W trapped quiet a number, right in town.
No one has ever been known to feed those Coyotes, no one has even suggested that it happens.
Coyote are what they are, cunning resourceful predators, who will grab any opportunity presented.

That may or may not be justification for killing them. It depends on your point of view.

My point of view is. No hunter asks another hunter to justify why he hunts what he does. From my point of view, hunters understand why hunters hunt.

From my point of view, anyone who says they don't understand hunting for the sake of hunting. Is not a hunter at all.

If you really were a hunter you would know that it is never only about the kill.
Like a football match, It's not only about the touchdown, it's about the whole game.

Last edited by KegRiver; 12-22-2010 at 10:22 PM.
  #57  
Old 12-22-2010, 10:15 PM
Mountain Guy Mountain Guy is offline
 
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Beans...maybe try eating one?? Heck, maybe they're good !!

How bout' ''coyote & beans'' ??

Then you could justify hunting them..
  #58  
Old 12-22-2010, 10:32 PM
MitchR MitchR is offline
 
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Call me a sick bastart, but every animal I kill is purely in fun. I dont go deer hunting because I need the meat. Hell, it probably cost more than its weight in beef. I dont go shoot yote's to help farmers, but helping farmers is sure a good plus for it. Same with deer hunting, I dont go shoot deer because I need the meat, I do it for fun, the meat is a big plus.

And I guess that means that 90% of people that own a gun are sick bastarts because they have shot an animal.
  #59  
Old 12-22-2010, 10:33 PM
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lilsundance lilsundance is offline
 
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Default its sad really

That one hunter has to try and justify to another hunter why he hunts the animals he does. I agree with Cat and some of the others, No one here should even have to try to justify hunting an animal in open season using legal means. Because you do not agree with it doesn't make it bad. What is bad is you are trying to, imho, force your opinions on others. All hunters should stand togeather and defend the others right to hunt what they want, how they want as long as it is legal. After all those people who do hunt coyotes not only would defend your right to not hunt them if you so choose, or to hunt bears, if you choose to, even if they do not. Next time you want to have someone justify why they hunt something may I suggest you just walk away from the computer.
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