Elk

[Nyksta]

Originally Posted by stubblejumper01

I'd like to see the cow season still be on a draw system to control the amount of tags per zone. But let them be valid from the opening in September until the end of what is now the late season ending in January. That would give hunters more opportunities to fill the tag. And also bring more cash flow to the area.
I had a draw last year but work got really busy and I was unable to get out hunting during the draw period. So the cash I normally spend in that zone stayed home. I would have been able to go later but couldn't so I stayed home and hunted deer instead.

+1

[Outdoorfanatic]

Originally Posted by shootermcgavin

26000 ish Elk in Alberta with land area of 640,081 km2
163000 ish Elk in Montana with land area of 380,800 km2

Now can someone please enlighten me as to what biological reason the Alberta government thinks the Elk population is too high besides the fact that they are competition with our beloved ranchers?



http://www.huntalberta.ca/en/species/Elk
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alberta
http://fwp.mt.gov/fishAndWildlife/management/elk/

Very interesting comparison. I'm guessing that much of the sediment to reduce elk numbers across the province is driven by the latest bad press regarding the Suffield elk.

[ram crazy]

Originally Posted by jrileyw

. ALL Bulls need to be on draw across the province. No point restrictions. Plus if a person wishes to draw a cow tag and a bull tag fill your shorts. Right now the system where you can only apply for one or the other is absurd.
The competion to kill an elk is insane anywhere you go. Giving more cow tags will help to control the populations. But there needs to be better opportunity to harvest the cows. Not so many trigger happy people competing for the one legal bull in the 200 head herd of cows.

You think you have a long wait time now. Could you imagine how long the wait time would be if you could put in for more then one Elk draw, it would be absurd!!!

[Outdoorfanatic]

So far I think the thread has suggested encouraging the gov to maintain the current solutions i.e. more tags, or longer duration to hunt, or unisex tags, or better utilization of the youth hunt, or more double tags particularly on cows.

I'd also suggest some form of partner tag possibly even to the extent of allowing the partner to both partner and acquire their own tag. That way no matter what age you are you'd have the opportunity to shoot an elk and assist someone else in getting theirs. Say in the event someone was too inexperienced to make a quick kill or they had health challenges that prevented them from an opportunity. I think personal choice to be charitable should be admired and rewarded regardless of age or possessing a tag.

[Slicktricker]

The thought of giving out 2 tags is ridiculous there wouldn't be any elk left in the province in 2 years of that you guys whine about wait times now, this place is ridiculous lately not happy unless you get to shoot everything but when nothing's left to hunt you'll be botching about that

[Huntnut]

There's enough regulations as it is. If you want an elk get out and get one. Get so tired of people wanting more regulations just so it's easier to get something. And to be perfectly honest I think there's too many cow tags given out already.

[newguy]

We regularly see big numbers of cow elk in 300 and 302. Not nearly as much in 400 and 402 but we know they are there. Right now the #3 highway that splits 400/402 is loaded with cow elk. Problem we see, not enough mature bulls.

Loose the 3 point and make it 6 point to harvest a bull. Too many immature bulls taken.

[LKILR]

Originally Posted by newguy

We regularly see big numbers of cow elk in 300 and 302. Not nearly as much in 400 and 402 but we know they are there. Right now the #3 highway that splits 400/402 is loaded with cow elk. Problem we see, not enough mature bulls.

Loose the 3 point and make it 6 point to harvest a bull. Too many immature bulls taken.

Switching to six point will not increase success rates. But you will find some five pointers that died a mysterious death if you know what I mean.

[JBE]

Originally Posted by LKILR

Switching to six point will not increase success rates. But you will find some five pointers that died a mysterious death if you know what I mean.

Reminiscent of the old 4 point muley system......

[Lefty-Canuck]

Hardest part about killing an elk is finding an elk where you have access or permission to hunt one. Once you have an area you know they hang out, the rest is timing, figuring out how those elk travel, and all on you to get the job done.

Once you have these things figured out there is little reason why you shouldn't get one each year, as long as they continue to frequent your hunting grounds.

LC

[Outdoorfanatic]

Everyone just take a breath. No one is trying to make anything easy. And just so we're clear double tags are already available and have been prior to the Suffield hunt. Anyone can buy a general and also buy the 212 draw. There is also double deer tags, double bear tags. And all the regs? just remember the regs are man made for a time and specific reason. The topic of this thread is how we want to help steer changes proposed by the gov. So with or without you regs will change.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by Pekan

I would think the only way would be to make antlerless tags more available.

Lots of people want to get a cow elk for the freezer, but right now if you draw a cow tag you can't hunt antlered elk that same year.


Unless I'm wrong, that's the way I understand the system to work.

Since harvest rates for bulls is so low in most wmu's anyway, why not let a guy have both antlered and antlerless tags in the same year?

Having said all that, I personally want to see the elk population go up in the mountain zones near me.

Start putting in for a zone with an either/or elk tag, there are a few in Alberta that allow for that.

If you want elk meat...just put in for antlerless or either/or tag? Lots of zones offer those. Elk are just getting to the point where the distribution is growing and seasons are opening up where they never have been before the last 10 years....the biggest thing in getting an elk is working for one.

LC

[LKILR]

If you think about it 10% of elk hunters kill 90% of the elk. It is a matter of skill and effort combined to be successful. I know hunters who hunted 20 years and never got one and I know other hunters who get one almost every year so Some figure it out others never will.

[Outdoorfanatic]

Originally Posted by LKILR

If you think about it 10% of elk hunters kill 90% of the elk. It is a matter of skill and effort combined to be successful. I know hunters who hunted 20 years and never got one and I know other hunters who get one almost every year so Some figure it out others never will.

Specific question for the "skill" believers, pressure equals nocturnal, what do you do then?

[ram crazy]

Originally Posted by Outdoorfanatic

Specific question for the "skill" believers, pressure equals nocturnal, what do you do then?

That's not necessarily true!! They may change their patterns

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by Outdoorfanatic

Specific question for the "skill" believers, pressure equals nocturnal, what do you do then?

Not always, I hunt a high pressure area and have managed to arrow an elk 4 years running. It took me considerable time to figure them out, like 6-7 years worth.

They don't hide in the ground...you have to find them.

LC

[LKILR]

Originally Posted by Outdoorfanatic

Specific question for the "skill" believers, pressure equals nocturnal, what do you do then?

If they sleep all day and eat all night maybe try waking them up during the nap times. Put pressure on them enough and they will have to eat during daylight hours. You might even get one while they bed... It takes EFFORT !!! Never give up unless your body can't handle it. Don't be afraid of spooking them around a bit. And one more tip over half of the elk I got where shot within last 10 minutes of legal light you have to stay till after the sun sets.

[Norwest Alta]

I like it just the way it is but if it were to change a either sex elk tag would be preferred or something like the whitetail supplemental tag would work.

For the guys that say two tags is one to many have probably not eaten elk. I would welcome 2 tags in my household and none would go to waste.

[bessiedog]

Originally Posted by ram crazy

That just being greedy!! No one needs two Elk tags, there is lots of meat on one Elk. I've said all along, give the youth more tags. They could give every youth a cow Elk tag when they purchase their wildlife certificate. And have hunter hosts signed up on the government web site that would be willing to take a youth out. The hosts would have all the info of what WMU they are willing to host a youth in and the youth can then chose a zone, but then again there are those that it's all about the me factor. If we want to promote hunting to those of the future this would be a great teach tool for the hunters of the future.

Best idea here by a country mile!


......... but you can't use quads...



Just jokin.


I could easily use up 2 elk in one season.

Re: nocturnal..... this word does not mean 'turn invisible', or 'zap to another dimension'..... it means.. 'learn to not be stupid and expose yourself in the open cause you'll get shot at... especially if your by roads.

They still exist during daylight hours. If a 400lb animal can get to an area... you sure as hell can too.
Get in shape. Learn to track. Find fresh track. Learn the land.

Hunt them.

Gettin real tired of people whining because hunting isn't easy.

[Hooter]

Originally Posted by Outdoorfanatic

Specific question for the "skill" believers, pressure equals nocturnal, what do you do then?

Find the less travelled trails.....

[elkdump]

Anyone not thinking they have ample hunting opportunities with Resident GOS Elk seasons in either Alberta or British Columbia should quit their whining and take up something like paint-ball or astrology ,,,

[3blade]

Originally Posted by LKILR

If you think about it 10% of elk hunters kill 90% of the elk. It is a matter of skill and effort combined to be successful. I know hunters who hunted 20 years and never got one and I know other hunters who get one almost every year so Some figure it out others never will.

While I agree with your 90:10 statement, its also a question of access. most of the so called problem areas with high densities of elk are the same ones with large no-hunting areas or uncooperative landowners who own a large amount of land. No strategy is going to work if the elk go where you can't get to them.

I don't see the overall problem though, there's not that many elk province wide. Big game biologists in this province seem to have a rather high incidence of cranial-rectal implantation.

[ram crazy]

Originally Posted by bessiedog

Best idea here by a country mile!


......... but you can't use quads...

Don't need to use the quad. I use the truck that way you only have to load them once, and you can get three in the back of the truck. "Work smarter not harder"

[Supergrit]

There's some in the crown land and anyone who gets elk consistently in the crown land is a pretty good hunter in my books. Getting permission from your Uncle Tom that no one else has a chance of getting makes things a lot easier.

[ram crazy]

Originally Posted by Supergrit

There's some in the crown land and anyone who gets elk consistently in the crown land is a pretty good hunter in my books. Getting permission from your Uncle Tom that no one else has a chance of getting makes things a lot easier.

Your a pretty lucky guy if your Uncle Tom only allows you on his land. I wished I had that luxury.

[macee]

I would like to see the elk draw ran like the antelope you can apply for both but can only be drawn for one.

[Supergrit]

Originally Posted by ram crazy

Your a pretty lucky guy if your Uncle Tom only allows you on his land. I wished I had that luxury.

No I don't have no Uncle Tom either. I had quite a bit of permission before and farmers are slowly starting to stop hunting on their land. A few bad apples and way to much people there giving up.
unless you have a in such as family close friends or maybe a connection through work the chance of getting permission at least were I'm at is pretty slim.
Private land has more animals but more restrictions and if that bugling bull isn't on your permission land all you can do is watch him. I kind of lean toward crown land now more freedom(less elk).

[Outdoorfanatic]

Originally Posted by LKILR

If they sleep all day and eat all night maybe try waking them up during the nap times. Put pressure on them enough and they will have to eat during daylight hours. You might even get one while they bed... It takes EFFORT !!! Never give up unless your body can't handle it. Don't be afraid of spooking them around a bit. And one more tip over half of the elk I got where shot within last 10 minutes of legal light you have to stay till after the sun sets.

Here's the problem with these threads, I start with asking for input to elk changes as proposed by our gov bios and what I get is the assumption that I'm a rookie who isn't willing to put effort into the hunt. Well I've done all of the above. Do like the part about "unless your body can't handle it." So on that note part of the failure rate is due to physical handicaps in the group. Yet due to the current regs its illegal for me to assist those who need it most. So that brings us back to the original question; what changes to the regs would you support to accommodate the Bios goal of more harvest. Oh and tracking them during daytime to their beds, what do you do when their beds are in posted land and they don't come out till well after dark and leave well before legal light?

[Outdoorfanatic]

Originally Posted by 3blade

While I agree with your 90:10 statement, its also a question of access. most of the so called problem areas with high densities of elk are the same ones with large no-hunting areas or uncooperative landowners who own a large amount of land. No strategy is going to work if the elk go where you can't get to them.

I don't see the overall problem though, there's not that many elk province wide. Big game biologists in this province seem to have a rather high incidence of cranial-rectal implantation.

Agreed access is one of those things that limits success at least equally among all hunters. Yet here in this province we still give more rights to lease holders of public land than we do the public, i.e. us!! So most of the land surround the Suffield Base is leased public land, but the lease holders not only limited access to the land but decades ago lobbied the gov to limit the Deer season all of which still stands today. Yet last year the biologist issue over 500 mule deer tags in the one WMU alone. Guess what it was under subscribed. So restrict time duration and access to land but increase the number of hunters. Seems like its the chart before the horse scenario. So no amount of effort will harvest more animals with those type of restrictions in place.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Diversify, if one WMU is too restrictive go elsewhere.

LC