It's official, AFGA supports the ban on Spear Hunting.

[dmcbride]

I don't think we will ever achieve social licence from the anti's. Like Walking Buffalo said, give the baby some candy and eventually the baby will want more candy.




Message from the President

Situations such as the video of the American spearing a black bear in Alberta, force us to review and analyze our opinions on such activities and weigh them in conjunction with the main priorities of AFGA and the overall image of hunters and hunting in Alberta. Some of our key priorities are to create and enhance the positive aspects of hunting, both within AND without the hunting community, to promote hunting as a wholesome outdoor activity for any and all, and to encourage participation.

We have to remember that wildlife in Alberta belong to all 4.3 million Albertan's and they ALL have an equal say in how it is managed. This means that as the largest consumptive user group we have to seek and maintain a "social license" from the general public in order for us to retain the hunting privileges that we now enjoy. With the public scrutiny that has occurred since the airing of the Josh Bowmar video of him spearing a bear it has become very apparent that the public has deemed this choice of weapon as being "archaic and barbaric" and they are NOT prepared to give us their social licence to use this type of weapon for hunting purposes. Maintaining a demand for its use could then imply that AFGA is also archaic and barbaric and not willing to concede to more modern philosophies regarding the choice of hunting weapons. This is a labelling that I wanted to distance ourselves from and maintaining a demand for it may well put the use of the more traditional weapons under further scrutiny with the potential of diminishing the social licence that we now have with regards to their use. Based on this, and in support of hunting in general, I decided to support the Government of Alberta's decision to ban the use of spears as a legal hunting weapon.

As an organization, AFGA is called on often for our opinion on matters such as this and we will continue to give our opinion when these calls come. As president of AFGA it is my responsibility to answer these calls and to provide an opinion on matters such as this. In some cases we have had the luxury of having had the matter presented at an AFGA AGM, debated and voted on by club and zone delegates with a position being taken on the matter. That was not the case with regards to the use of spears as a legal hunting weapon. It certainly does not mean that it cannot be put forward as a resolution at a future AFGA AGM and if any club or zone wishes to do so I would encourage the same.

R. Wayne Lowry,
President
Alberta Fish & Game Association

[diamond k]

I read the letter last night and thought it was well written and I am in agreement with statement. I agree that is a slippery slope when we start banning certain forms of hunting but we also need to realize that the optics we present will determine the future of our sport.

[Lefty-Canuck]

So when a rifle Hunter posts an inappropriate reaction to hunting an animal....do they stand behind him?

What about a black powder Hunter?

What about a crossbow Hunter?

What about a compound Bowhunter?

What about a traditional Bowhunter?

I feel that all tools should have a published minimum requirement (like many already do) to be deemed a legal hunting tool.

I think we can agree in the case of the speared bear that the bear was taken ethically (Hunter possessed the skills) and clean (bear died quickly as a result of the spear).

So take the tool out of the equation, and take the emotional response out of the reaction and the depiction video of the hunt and what do you end up with.

A Hunter who legally and ethical took a bear, recovered it in a timely fashion when it was safe to do so....the rest is open to OPINION. So now implement some minimum standards and you have a Hunter who legally and ethically took a bear in a timely fashion when it was safe to do so with an approved tool.

I disagree with the AFGA in supporting a ban...I think this could have been an opportunity to educate people on hunting and that we want to have a set of guidelines for all tools used in hunting. I think that would be the appropriate response. These are my personal thoughts only.

LC

[dmcbride]

Originally Posted by diamond k

I read the letter last night and thought it was well written and I am in agreement with statement. I agree that is a slippery slope when we start banning certain forms of hunting but we also need to realize that the optics we present will determine the future of our sport.

I'll agree with that. I believe the video was the issue, not the method or the actual kill. Until we address video's online that are done in poor taste for the public to see we will be giving are rights away as hunters one little piece at a time. Hopefully this incident will make people think twice about posting video's on line because we will never receive social licence from the general public showing video's where hunters get excited with blood and guts regardless of the weapon.

[bobtodrick]

Originally Posted by diamond k

I read the letter last night and thought it was well written and I am in agreement with statement. I agree that is a slippery slope when we start banning certain forms of hunting but we also need to realize that the optics we present will determine the future of our sport.

Gotta agree.
I have far less of a problem with the AFGA stance than I do the idiot that posted the video in the first place.
Too bad people wouldn't realize that video is what will lose us the right to hunt with a spear...not a message from the AFGA president.

[Newview01]

A statement like this effectively allows hunters to be at the whims of public opinion. Will he support a complete ban on hunting in general when the public sees hunting as "archaic and barbaric"?

This whole situation has been blown way out of proportion and it is the honest, law abiding hunter who will suffer in the end.

[amosfella]

Optics be . If we pander to everyones' feelings because their feelings are so important, we wind up with a world with no justice and no actual laws and rules that can be followed... Someone will always be offended... It doesn't matter what you do, or how you do it...

Look at the current debacle over the power plants... Someone felt that they were 'dirty'...

[cdales]

Originally Posted by bobtodrick

Gotta agree.
I have far less of a problem with the AFGA stance than I do the idiot that posted the video in the first place.
Too bad people wouldn't realize that video is what will lose us the right to hunt with a spear...not a message from the AFGA president.

X2

[catnthehat]

To say that I am disappointed in the AFGA's president for making that statement
Would be a gross understatement!
He should have asked the membership before making a stance because that seems more if a personal opinion than anything and I do not think it us the view of the majority of the members.

Hunters - and I am speaking about sport hunters ( recreational hunters for the politically correct types) kill animals with spears and swords all over the World , this is nothing new.
However because the video was viewed in poor taste ( not the worst I have ever seen either) there was an outcry to ban spears and he jumped on the band wagon.
I'm surprised he didn't throw baiting under the bus at he same time .
Cat

[Bigwoodsman]

Originally Posted by dmcbride

I don't think we will ever achieve social licence from the anti's. Like Walking Buffalo said, give the baby some candy and eventually the baby will want more candy.




Message from the President

Situations such as the video of the American spearing a black bear in Alberta, force us to review and analyze our opinions on such activities and weigh them in conjunction with the main priorities of AFGA and the overall image of hunters and hunting in Alberta. Some of our key priorities are to create and enhance the positive aspects of hunting, both within AND without the hunting community, to promote hunting as a wholesome outdoor activity for any and all, and to encourage participation.

We have to remember that wildlife in Alberta belong to all 4.3 million Albertan's and they ALL have an equal say in how it is managed. This means that as the largest consumptive user group we have to seek and maintain a "social license" from the general public in order for us to retain the hunting privileges that we now enjoy. With the public scrutiny that has occurred since the airing of the Josh Bowmar video of him spearing a bear it has become very apparent that the public has deemed this choice of weapon as being "archaic and barbaric" and they are NOT prepared to give us their social licence to use this type of weapon for hunting purposes. Maintaining a demand for its use could then imply that AFGA is also archaic and barbaric and not willing to concede to more modern philosophies regarding the choice of hunting weapons. This is a labelling that I wanted to distance ourselves from and maintaining a demand for it may well put the use of the more traditional weapons under further scrutiny with the potential of diminishing the social licence that we now have with regards to their use. Based on this, and in support of hunting in general, I decided to support the Government of Alberta's decision to ban the use of spears as a legal hunting weapon.

As an organization, AFGA is called on often for our opinion on matters such as this and we will continue to give our opinion when these calls come. As president of AFGA it is my responsibility to answer these calls and to provide an opinion on matters such as this. In some cases we have had the luxury of having had the matter presented at an AFGA AGM, debated and voted on by club and zone delegates with a position being taken on the matter. That was not the case with regards to the use of spears as a legal hunting weapon. It certainly does not mean that it cannot be put forward as a resolution at a future AFGA AGM and if any club or zone wishes to do so I would encourage the same.

R. Wayne Lowry,
President
Alberta Fish & Game Association

Well now. I used to be a member of a F&G club, but quit many many many years ago because of the politics and klik of the local club. I felt that they weren't representing the fishermen/women, and hunters of the city I was in. If you weren't sipping an aged scotch our smoking a fine cigar, you weren't considered. In meeting ideas, and thoughts were quashed before one could even finish the statement being proposed or given.

I recall one meeting where a past president of this particular F&G club up and walked out in disgust. Many of us in attendance followed. I remember this because it was my last ever F&G meeting.

Recently I have been looking for a local club to join, there are clubs out there, but none really fit what I was looking for in my local area, other then the F&G club.

I was considering this club as I was looking for like minded individuals to meet with. After reading the above statement from the president of the AFGA I will be keeping my money in my pocket.

The president should of denounced the posting of videos for public access as that done by said American. As hunters I don't feel like I am barbaric or archaic in my harvest of an animal, a bird, or a fish. As long as the method is legal as per the jurisdiction I am hunting in.

In the case of the spear hunter, I am envious of his tenacious ability to stalk and spear the bear. Track and harvest the animal. His posting of the video on youtube sickens me and disgusts me.

I'm not wanting to sensor this fellow, it's his right to post to share, to video. I believe it should have been shared on a private network of his own.

I said before go back 20 plus years and this isn't even an issue today.

How hunters and fishermen conduct themselves, is what is important to the public. People will always oppose the harvest of game, but they will never support the exploit of the kill.

BW

[Frosty Tracks]

Social License??? So the non hunting community will dictate their approval??? Give an inch and they will want a mile!! Yes the video left a visual dent in some people's mind, you will never totally please the Anti's next bow hunting will not get their "social license" approval! Pretty sure the hunting community are the ones that help preserve nature, help manage our resources and take pride in doing so . As well it's our dollars that are a major contribution to these resources and their management just my opinion

[MathewsArcher]

I think the point the were trying to make is that the general public must be at a minimum apathetic to the method of harvest. While anti hunters may never be supportive they are still in the minority. The majority is made up of the general public which in many instances have not taken a stand either for or against hunting as a recreational pastime. If the general public becomes opposed to hunting or are swayed in that direction then in a democracy it is likely that more sweeping changes will occur and hunting will become a thing of the past. Like it or not the general public holds the future of sport hunting in their hands, as we live in a democracy and if the majority turns on hunting as a recreational pastime or conservation management tool it is likely that the politicians will make changes.

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by Newview01

A statement like this effectively allows hunters to be at the whims of public opinion. .

We already are. The survival of hunting depends on the goodwill of non-hunters. Lose that and the antis will ride to victory immediately. Personally, I'm not in favour of squandering the goodwill we do have on defending practices that almost none of us are involved in and some don't even approve of.. This video just forced us into having to make a decision we wouldn't have had to make otherwise. Thanks moron.

I'd rather not see any practice outlawed, but we outlaw many things, from bait and calls for ungulates to night hunting, etc. etc. And I think the AFGA has to be sensitive to public opinion and how hunters are portrayed.

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by MathewsArcher

I think the point the were trying to make is that the general public must be at a minimum apathetic to the method of harvest. .

Agreed. Most of the public doesn't care about a "bang flop". The further away from that a hunting method gets, the more it's going to be questioned. Publicity just speeds up the process. The Anti's biggest allies are the hunters who want to brag and post macho youtube videos. Modifying Ralph's SSS advice: Spear, skin, shut up.

[Toromir]

Next to be banned - Bows.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Emotion to a video drove this...those who are most vocal against it are likely uneducated in the ways of hunting.

Many of them had issue with hunting over bait! And thought the spear was fine.

Soon all the hard work from many organizations will be undone due to "social media pressure".

Take field photos share with your buddies, edit for the masses...forget about the 5 secs of fame on YouTube with shock value, unless done tastefully (i.e. Donnie Vincent)....there are consequences.

LC

[DJS]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

So when a rifle Hunter posts an inappropriate reaction to hunting an animal....do they stand behind him?

What about a black powder Hunter?

What about a crossbow Hunter?

What about a compound Bowhunter?

What about a traditional Bowhunter?

I feel that all tools should have a published minimum requirement (like many already do) to be deemed a legal hunting tool.

I think we can agree in the case of the speared bear that the bear was taken ethically (Hunter possessed the skills) and clean (bear died quickly as a result of the spear).

So take the tool out of the equation, and take the emotional response out of the reaction and the depiction video of the hunt and what do you end up with.

A Hunter who legally and ethical took a bear, recovered it in a timely fashion when it was safe to do so....the rest is open to OPINION. So now implement some minimum standards and you have a Hunter who legally and ethically took a bear in a timely fashion when it was safe to do so with an approved tool.

I disagree with the AFGA in supporting a ban...I think this could have been an opportunity to educate people on hunting and that we want to have a set of guidelines for all tools used in hunting. I think that would be the appropriate response. These are my personal thoughts only.

LC

Excellent post.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Toromir

Next to be banned - Bows.

+1 Start small with an obscure method like spear hunting, then go for bow hunting, and once that is accomplished, then go after firearms hunting.

[HoytCRX32]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

To say that I am disappointed in the AFGA's president for making that statement
Would be a gross understatement!
He should have asked the membership before making a stance because that seems more if a personal opinion than anything and I do not think it us the view of the majority of the members.

Hunters - and I am speaking about sport hunters ( recreational hunters for the politically correct types) kill animals with spears and swords all over the World , this is nothing new.
However because the video was viewed in poor taste ( not the worst I have ever seen either) there was an outcry to ban spears and he jumped on the band wagon.
I'm surprised he didn't throw baiting under the bus at he same time .
Cat

You're absolutely right Cat!
I am a member of AGFA and do not recall being contacted as to what the association's official position should be. I think the executive went it (for the most part alone) which is completely unacceptable given the gravity of the issue. They should have canvassed the membership to determine the associations stance.

[6mm rem]

SPINELESS

[Mistagin]

4.3 million Alberta residents.
"All have an equal say in how it (wildlife resource) is managed."
Each 'resident' gets one vote in 'public opinion'.

How many hunters? A bit more than 303,000 licenses sold in 2015.

I think we're outvoted . Enjoy it while you can!

Looks like AFGA has joined the anti side.

[kujoseto]

I very much agree with Lefty-Canuck and catnthehat.
If people wouldn't be so hyped up on video and then post the video, the opinion of what hunting is could be much more positive

[HoytCRX32]

Traditional bowhunting would be their next logical target (no pun intended) although logic doesn't seem to apply with some of these folks.
Brace brace brace!

[Redfrog]

Just the tip, I promise!!

We are screwed gentlemen.

[waterninja]

I bet that Bowmar could never have imagined the chit storm that he was going to cause by posting that vid.
I agree with Lefty and Cat about not agreeing with the letter that the AFGA president has written. One thing that puzzles me is what gives the president the right to just go ahead and write a letter like that in the first place? Was he ordered by the govt. to make a response on this issue? Why could he not have waited till all the members had a chance to contribute their input on this issue? Or at least poll the membership somehow? What compelled him to write this letter at all?
I don't think Mr/Ms Lowry had the right to write this letter even if he/she is the president. I'm sure that I am not the only member of the AFGA that does not agree with the content of this letter. Talk about caving in to the anti's and misinformed.

[The Spruce]

Very poor representation of hunters by the AFGA on this one. They (the exec) don't care about spears hunting because THEY do not practice the method. Would the response have been the same if some one posted another "barbaric" hunt video of a bow kill....100% not.

-The antis wont stop, they are PAID to do this.
-We just threw in the towel, the ban (of spears) will now come to fruition, thanks AFGA.
-What's next? The white towel is up, let the pillage begin.

I think next time my AFGA dues are up I might forget to pay them.

Spruce

[Stubb]

Originally Posted by dmcbride

I'll agree with that. I believe the video was the issue, not the method or the actual kill. Until we address video's online that are done in poor taste for the public to see we will be giving are rights away as hunters one little piece at a time. Hopefully this incident will make people think twice about posting video's on line because we will never receive social licence from the general public showing video's where hunters get excited with blood and guts regardless of the weapon.

Nailed It!

[Sooner]

The Agfa president should have used every opportunity to get in front of a camera and educate that the method was as ancient as time and legal. It was the form of media that was wrong, the display went too far. And explain why baiting is good so mama's don't get targeted and leave orphaned cubs.

Is there not a way for Agfa to get a email out asap to its membership for an impromptu poll on such divisive issues. At least see where the opinion is going before you jump to a knee jerk reaction.

We as a group are going to have to make an effort to control the social media message and stop giving the anti's free dynamite. More closed groups maybe. Post your pics and edit your You tube vids. As mentioned, let your friends see the whole deal in the man cave with a few brewskis.

I think Agfa made a mistake with this letter.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Can folks be a member of SPFGA without being a member of AFGA?

LC

[FCLightning]

This is a very, very big disappointment.

I have already sent them my letter - maybe time to send another to Mr. Wayne Lowry.