Quick question about being convicted of a wildlife offence and guiding while suspended?

[1shotwade]

Just wondering if it's legal! Heard theres one out there and he says he is good to go!

[pickrel pat]

If your suspended from driving can you not give directions from the pasenger seat? Lol. My guess would be its legal.

[H380]

Originally Posted by pickrel pat

If your suspended from driving can you not give directions from the pasenger seat? Lol. My guess would be its legal.

If you are guiding , you aren't really on the passenger seat . Gotta have a WIN Card # for a guide licence so I am guessing you couldn't if under suspension . I may be wrong .

[Dirt2oil]

Originally Posted by 1shotwade

Just wondering if it's legal! Heard theres one out there and he says he is good to go!

Hahaha it's always a "friend" what did you do ?

[1shotwade]

Originally Posted by Dirt2oil

Hahaha it's always a "friend" what did you do ?

Not me by along shot If its illegal I will out him and the Outfitter he is working for after I call fish and wildlife! he aint hiding it one bit he has told numerous people in these parts what he is upto!

[Lefty-Canuck]

Don't ask here....just let F&W know about it.

LC

[nube]

Have to be able to hold a hunting license to be able to legally guide

[CanuckShooter]

Originally Posted by nube

Have to be able to hold a hunting license to be able to legally guide

Is he the guide or just a volunteer.... or perhaps the wrangler.....different job descriptions, different title....hard to prove he was guiding and it's not illegal for him to be along in another capacity.

[pickrel pat]

Originally Posted by H380

If you are guiding , you aren't really on the passenger seat . Gotta have a WIN Card # for a guide licence so I am guessing you couldn't if under suspension . I may be wrong .

Need a win card for fishing licence so i believe you can have a win. Or do you lose fishing rights to?

[huntin'fool]

Originally Posted by nube

Have to be able to hold a hunting license to be able to legally guide

Unfortunately, the guide's ability to hold a hunting licence has no bearing on whether or not he can guide. Well done APOS....
Yes, believe it or not, there are people out there holding guide's permits who've had their hunting licences suspended...pretty silly system...

[harv3589]

Says a lot about the outfit if they hire a guy like that...

[1shotwade]

So its all right for him to guide but he can't drive his buddies around when there hunting because he is helping in the hunt
His words not mine.

[Swangin]

Wow, look at all the wrong information being flung around here.

We might not agree with it but thats no reason to spread bs information folks.

Its ok to not know the answer to some questions.

I think its stupid too. If you are dumb enough to break the law while hunting how can you be trusted to keep your clientelle within the law?

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by Swangin

Wow, look at all the wrong information being flung around here.

We might not agree with it but thats no reason to spread bs information folks.

Its ok to not know the answer to some questions.

I think its stupid too. If you are dumb enough to break the law while hunting how can you be trusted to keep your clientelle within the law?

So what is the correct info?

LC

[Swangin]

The truth of the matter is that unfortunatley a guide can still hold a Big Game Guides Designation if he is under suspension from hunting rights. I phoned apos about this just last year because a I saw a local kid guiding when I knew darn well he was suspended because I was a witness at his trial. Its stupid but its the way it is.

[elkhunter11]

The truth of the matter is that unfortunatley a guide can still hold a Big Game Guides Designation if he is under suspension from hunting rights. I phoned apos about this just last year because a I saw a local kid guiding when I knew darn well he was suspended because I was a witness at his trial. Its stupid but its the way it is.

And APOS member outfitters that have been convicted of criminal acts, as well as wildlife act violations, while outfitting, are still allowed to outfit, as well as remain members of APOS.

[bobalong]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

And APOS member outfitters that have been convicted of criminal acts, as well as wildlife act violations, while outfitting, are still allowed to outfit, as well as remain members of APOS.

Pretty hard to expect the "bad apples" to change when the governing body, APOS basically condones their actions by not disciplining, or punting them. Another POS organization that needs to go away, or else get some directors who will hold their members accountable.

[Swangin]

Couldnt agree more!

[7magtime]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

And APOS member outfitters that have been convicted of criminal acts, as well as wildlife act violations, while outfitting, are still allowed to outfit, as well as remain members of APOS.

What a system......no wonder residents got the short end of the stick this year on the archery antlered mule deer changes. With rules like that it sure does seem that APOS knows how to "bark up the right tree"!!!!

[Swangin]

Its not apos that made the decisions regarding the new antlered Muley archery draws to be fair. And we cant expect apos to encourage a reduction in allocations because it would be taking money out of their pockets regardless of what the right thing to do is. With guys like Gord Burton & Billy Franklin that have a vested interest in Mule Deer allocations involved in various commitees with apos how can we ever expect the system to work? However thats not the point of this thread.

[elkhunter11]

What a system......no wonder residents got the short end of the stick this year on the archery antlered mule deer changes. With rules like that it sure does seem that APOS knows how to "bark up the right tree"!

It makes a person wonder just how they are convincing SRD to give APOS so much opportunity, at the expense of the Alberta residents.

[IR_mike]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

It makes a person wonder just how they are convincing SRD to give APOS so much opportunity, at the expense of the Alberta residents.

ya makes a guy wonder.

[Swangin]

I dont trust apos one bit and I fully believe there is tons of shady stuff that goes on regarding apos, but even though there are a few things in place that are unfair to residents we have to admit that Alberta residents have it pretty good. Its a lot worse in other places in North America...except maybe Saskatchawan.

[Desert Eagle]

No one is perfect.

Why is everyone judging others when you don't even know the story. I think everyone should stop complaining so much without knowing the whole story.

[H380]

Originally Posted by pickrel pat

Need a win card for fishing licence so i believe you can have a win. Or do you lose fishing rights to?

Sorry pat , shoulda rephrased it . I meant that a WIN card is needed for someone not under suspension to get a valid hunting licence and I figured it should be the same for a valid guide licence , but it sounds like from posts on here , that someone suspended can still guide . I would have hoped a suspension would cause the individual the loss of hunting , guiding AND fishing priviledges , but maybe not ..

[elkhunter11]

Why is everyone judging others when you don't even know the story. I think everyone should stop complaining so much without knowing the whole story.

I do know for a fact that a certain APOS outfitter has been convicted of criminal acts, as well as multiple wildlife act violations, while outfitting, and that outfitter was allowed to continue outfitting, as well as remain a member of APOS. In fact that particular outfitter, whose convictions were reported in newspapers, and in the Game Warden magazine is still a member of APOS, and he is still outfitting.

Outfitter given hefty fine for fraud: Two deer hunters given void licences, trial hears
PUBLICATION: Edmonton Journal
DATE: 2003.05.24
BYLINE: Derrick Penner
SOURCE: The Edmonton Journal
DATELINE: SHERWOOD PARK


SHERWOOD PARK - An Alberta company that charged big bucks to take Americans deer hunting will have to pay hefty fines for defrauding two clients and sending others into the woods with void licences.

On Friday, provincial court judge Ray Bradley ordered Great White Holdings Ltd. and owner Lloyd McMahon to pay $137,000 in fines on criminal charges of fraud and several provincial Wildlife Act offences.

Conservation officer Greg Stolz said it is one of the biggest penalties ever assessed against an outfitter in the province.

"I'm quite pleased with the order," Stolz said. "The monetary penalty certainly addresses the seriousness of the offences. And hopefully a message has been sent to the industry that abuses of the system will be dealt with seriously."

Stolz said the case sets precedents to help conservation officers deal with accountability among guides and outfitters for the accuracy of information they provide to provincial wildlife officials.

Crown prosecutor Orest Yereniuk said the decision was "well thought out and addresses all the concerns," though he had asked for up to two years in jail for McMahon on the fraud charges.

A $50,000 payment to provincial wildlife conservation for an aerial survey of whitetail deer populations was one part of the sentence Bradley handed down under creative sentencing provisions of the Wildlife Act.

Bradley did not prohibit McMahon from hunting, though he would forfeit the right if he fails to pay the fines.

He had convicted Great White and McMahon of the charges on Jan. 31.

During the three-week trial, hunters told the court they paid $3,500 US each to be taken deer hunting in either the fall of 1999 or 2000. Non-citizens must use the services of a local guide to hunt legally in Alberta. Witnesses said they assumed the company had taken care of licences and permits. What they did not know is that licences Great White handed to them were cancelled moments after they were printed, putting them in the position of hunting illegally.

From the Alberta Game Warden Magazine

Outfitter caught baiting: Vegreville District

A Lloydminster man’s illegal activity came to a halt after Fish and Wildlife officers located a client hunting over a pile of bait. On Mar. 1, 2005 Lloyd A. McMahon, 54, of Lloydminster, Saskatchewan was convicted on the charge of setting out prohibited items (bait) as specified to hunt big game. As a result, McMahon was handed a $12,500 fine and a seized hunting stand was ordered forfeited to the Crown. This judgement arose as a result of trial on Jan. 18, 2005. On Nov. 24, 2003 Vegreville and Vermillion Fish and Wildlife officers were working in an area southeast of Two Hills. A foot patrol into property in the area found a non-resident alien hunter that was hunting white-tailed deer from a stand. The stand was overlooking a pile of bait found about 150 metres away. The bait consisted of oats and peas recently placed there that would naturally attract deer. The property the non-alien resident was hunting on was native bush and parkland with no areas broken up for cropland or pasture. The stand and bait was located in a dried up slough bottom. A trail had been cleared through the bush from the main access road to get to the slough and stand. The trail that provided access to this location was beyond a locked gate and was also posted to keep people out. The client provided his co-operation by advising, in a statement, his activity and knowledge of the bait and licensing arrangements to hunt deer in Alberta. Further investigation revealed that the property was owned by McMahon and that his company had contracted the hunt with the non-resident alien. A search warrant was executed on the property the following day. The stand was dismantled, seized and ordered forfeited.

Also from the Alberta Game Warden magazine.

The matter of outfitter Lloyd McMahon and his company, Great White Holdings, has been concluded. The last update that appeared in this magazine involved McMahon’s appeal of the convictions. In summary, the Court of Appeal found the company, Great White Holdings, guilty on three counts of hunting wildlife without a licence, one count of illegal possession of wildlife and two counts of indictable fraud under the Criminal Code. The court also upheld the convictions of Lloyd McMahon, finding him guilty on two counts of hunting wildlife without a licence, one count of illegal possession of wildlife and two counts of indictable fraud under the Criminal Code. The court sent back five Wildlife Act counts for retrial. The Special Prosecutions Branch elected not to retry the company on these counts and those convictions have been quashed or set aside.

The next appeal launched by McMahon involved the penalties that were imposed. The Court of Appeal ruled on those on May 31, 2005. The specifics of the appeal may be viewed at:www.albertacourts.ab.ca/jdb/2003-/ca/criminal/ 2005/2005abca0188.pdf

The final results of the monetary penalties are as follows: Great White Holdings was assessed fines of $4,600 per count (three counts) involving hunting wildlife without a licence, $1,150 for one count of illegal possession of wildlife and $2,500 per count (two counts) for the fraud convictions. A total of $19,950 in penalties were assessed against the company.

McMahon was handed fines of $4,600 per count (two counts) involving hunting wildlife without a licence, $1,150 for one count of illegal possession of wildlife and $2,500 per count (two counts) for the fraud convictions. Total fines of $15,350 were assessed against McMahon.

Despite multiple convictions, he is still a member of APOS, and he is still outfitting.

[Albertadiver]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I do know for a fact that a certain APOS outfitter has been convicted of criminal acts, as well as multiple wildlife act violations, while outfitting, and that outfitter was allowed to continue outfitting, as well as remain a member of APOS. In fact that particular outfitter, whose convictions were reported in newspapers, and in the Game Warden magazine is still a member of APOS, and he is still outfitting.

And he's a royal d-bag

I'm not a professional hunter, not a trophy hunter, and I choose to hunt to enjoy this privilege and respect the animals I harvest and eat.

The hunting 'industry' really taints this for me. APOS to me is a complete sham that shelters criminals and is completely self-serving which completely tarnishes hunters in alberta. While I respect the reasons why people hunt, as far as I'm concerned APOS is the 'dark side' if I were to use Star Wars As a reference.

[H380]

Originally Posted by Albertadiver

And he's a royal d-bag

I'm not a professional hunter, not a trophy hunter, and I choose to hunt to enjoy this privilege and respect the animals I harvest and eat.

The hunting 'industry' really taints this for me. APOS to me is a complete sham that shelters criminals and is completely self-serving which completely tarnishes hunters in alberta. While I respect the reasons why people hunt, as far as I'm concerned APOS is the 'dark side' if I were to use Star Wars As a reference.

Although there are some clean outfitters , Great White is certainly not alone in the d-bag department ..

[igorot]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

It makes a person wonder just how they are convincing SRD to give APOS so much opportunity, at the expense of the Alberta residents.

Not sure about it, but how about checking their campaign contribution to the ruling party .

[7magtime]

Elkhunter11 thanks for posting that info on the charges. It still amazes me that for all those charges he wasn't given an automatic ban from hunting for at least 1 year minimum. If he was a resident I know he wouldn't have got off that easy......