Elk

[calvin]

The only change I would like to see made is the Suffield elk 'cull' draw be made available so as not to interfere with other elk draws. I personally would apply for an either sex draw there and not be interfering with my other elk draw. It would me great if as a previous post suggested try to get the youth involved and since they have so many seasons there already they could easily make one a youth season. I am sure there must be some very capable instructors on the base that cold assist in regards to shooting instruction as well. Outddorfanatic, the elk may be moving when you do not expect them to move. Everyone thinks they go out late at night and are in bed before the sun comes up don't understand them very well. Elk are a large animal and they require a fair amount of good grazing. They also require water everyday. That said, if there isn't snow on the ground they need to find open water. That would be open creeks or ponds etc. I find they seem to move thru my area a lot later than I expected originally. Pressure from hunters and roads is high within the first hour of daylight, then everybody is gone home for coffee and breakfast. That's when I like to be out is about 9am in November as that's when they move from bush areas to bush areas to bedding areas. I have watched them hole up in small patches of timber for 15 minutes to an hour before that lead cow determines its safe to cross to another. Remember it's the lead cow you're hunting. If you want to keep elk in your area encourage the neighbours to not shoot her. She will lead that herd for a lot of years in and around a given area for quite some time. Wolves will change that pattern. IMO..

[Lefty-Canuck]

^^^^^

If it didn't affect other draws....then EVERYONE would put in for it and it would become an extremely low chance of getting drawn.

They have harvest goals so the either/or draw likely isn't part of the management plan.

Honestly from the stories I have heard first hand...I would not want to have a youth or new eager and aspiring Hunter anywhere near that hunt IMHO.

LC

[Outdoorfanatic]

Tactics, effort, persistence, skill all good stuff, I'm not disputing any of it. But the point is the regs are still limiting and the Bios still want more elk dead. For example on a late season hunt even if I do all of the skill stuff I still can't shoot a spike bull, I still can't assist filling the tag of a handicap hunter, there's still no incentive to landowners to allow hunting, there's still no accountability within gov ensuring that public land accessible to hunting doesn't suddenly become protected parks lands, and late hunts in the north at least are still shorter in season length than that of earlier cow hunts. So I do all the skill and effort stuff and maybe I get mine maybe I don't. So the Bios than say in order to get more harvest put more hunters out there all of whom have the same obstacles that I'm up against. Now I'm not in full agreement with the Bios in saying elk numbers are to high but they aren't interested in any other narrative other than "elk numbers are too high". So disagreeing with the bio is legit but I haven't been able to get any traction with that.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Personally I feel thee is ample elk opportunities and the regs are not a limiting factor, access to lands that hold large numbers of elk is. There is a ton of over the counter tags available and if you do your homework you can shoot any elk including a spike bull in many zones, you just have to hunt the archery season or hold a draw.

Bios stating, "elk numbers are too high" Is a regional statement not a blanket one.

You realize it is called hunting and not called shooting or shopping.

LC

[Outdoorfanatic]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

Personally I feel thee is ample elk opportunities and the regs are not a limiting factor, access to lands that hold large numbers of elk is. There is a ton of over the counter tags available and if you do your homework you can shoot any elk including a spike bull in many zones, you just have to hunt the archery season or hold a draw.

Bios stating, "elk numbers are too high" Is a regional statement not a blanket one.

You realize it is called hunting and not called shooting or shopping.

LC

Your putting words in my mouth. Maybe just stick to the original question. And a general archery tag doesn't allow you to shoot a spike elk. Spike elk are legit bulls on a bull draw in say WMU 936 i.e. Blackfoot but that WMU also has no late season cow draw. So the question here is in particular regard to late season cow draws where Bios say more harvest is necessary.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by Outdoorfanatic

Your putting words in my mouth. Maybe just stick to the original question. And a general archery tag doesn't allow you to shoot a spike elk. Spike elk are legit bulls on a bull draw in say WMU 936 i.e. Blackfoot but that WMU also has no late season cow draw. So the question here is in particular regard to late season cow draws where Bios say more harvest is necessary.

I never put words in your mouth...and look harder there are some WMU you can shoot spike elk (or any elk) under an over the counter tag during an archery only season. I have the feeling you are generalizing on a specific area believing that it applies Province wide without doing all your homework.

Your "question" is convoluted and I answered with the regs aren't an issue in my opinion, and access is what limits elk harvest not lack of opportunity or seasons. Past 4 years I have filled an elk tag and this year I expect to as well.

Your OP/original question makes no mention or asks no question on late season cow elk seasons.

Originally Posted by Outdoorfanatic

Curious to know how many out there would like to see some changes made that would give different/better harvest opportunities on elk and what your suggested changes might be? Biologist top to bottom in this province have told me that they want more elk harvested. However year after year very few of us actually take an elk. These biologist seem to only have the one tool for more harvest and that's issue more tags. With the elk hunts I've typically done the more tags has made my hunt harder not easier. Animals just go nocturnal or leave the area completely. What is your experience and what would you suggest these bios do?

LC

[winger7mm]

Originally Posted by LKILR

Switching to six point will not increase success rates. But you will find some five pointers that died a mysterious death if you know what I mean.

Should add spikers to the kill list if they chose the 6pt route. Atleast get some good genes into the herd lol

[Slicktricker]

Outdoor why should they increase tags so the 18000 elk in Alberta in 4 years gets down to say 4000 then wait ten years to shoot A dam 3x3? I say get rid of the late season hunts

[winger7mm]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

Personally I feel thee is ample elk opportunities and the regs are not a limiting factor, access to lands that hold large numbers of elk is. There is a ton of over the counter tags available and if you do your homework you can shoot any elk including a spike bull in many zones, you just have to hunt the archery season or hold a draw.

Bios stating, "elk numbers are too high" Is a regional statement not a blanket one.

You realize it is called hunting and not called shooting or shopping.

LC

You mentioned suffield

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by winger7mm

You mentioned suffield

True

LC

[Slicktricker]

Suffield shouldn't can't it's a cull not a real hunt guys who can't hunt elk go there

[Bulldog Edm]

I think instead of the Suffield "cull" they should tranquilizer and relocate groups of these problem elk to other areas in the province with lower elk populations.

[winger7mm]

Originally Posted by Slicktricker

Suffield shouldn't can't it's a cull not a real hunt guys who can't hunt elk go there

Like shooting fish in a barrel you need to chase down with a truck first

[brendan's dad]

Originally Posted by Pekan

I would think the only way would be to make antlerless tags more available.

Lots of people want to get a cow elk for the freezer, but right now if you draw a cow tag you can't hunt antlered elk that same year.


Unless I'm wrong, that's the way I understand the system to work.

Since harvest rates for bulls is so low in most wmu's anyway, why not let a guy have both antlered and antlerless tags in the same year?

Having said all that, I personally want to see the elk population go up in the mountain zones near me.

So maybe a general tag with 1 supplemental?

[Outdoorfanatic]

Guys this isn't about my hunts or my honey hole or my success rate or my effort level. This is about Bios telling me that they want more elk dead. Suffield was mentioned because Suffield has been the political catalyst regarding elk policy as a whole. And it has been suggested to me by at least one bio that he has been directed to increase tag allocations in his northern WMU in an effort to prevent a Suffield like situation from ever happening there. So Suffield is affecting the ideology of management everywhere. Besides think about it; it seems the consensus here is that elk numbers are not high but maybe even as a whole lower than we'd like to see? Yet you've all told me about late season cow elk hunts in your WMUs throughout the province. So late season hunts exist because the gov feels that elk numbers are too high. Other wise draw season bulls would be our only choice. Think about it Suffield is a relatively new hunt, and all around it double tags are offered, mean while in the north on late season cows they nearly double the allocations last year. That's not my hunt my region thats a big part of the province. Unbelievable how gun ho some are on this thing to kill the messenger. Truly thought that elk hunters would be interested in knowing how bios felt about elk.

[walking buffalo]

Most hunters posting here are missing the underlying fact that Outdoorfanatic asked to discuss.

F&W IS under pressure from landowners to reduce elk populations in some areas, mostly in agricultural areas.

Like it or not, this is the reality of the current situation.

Discussion of point restrictions and hunter effort is rather moot.
F&W is being told to reduce the elk population in some areas.

The hunting community can either participate in finding a way to achieve these goals, or lobby to change the goal.


Currently, AFGA has proposed to add elk to the partner licence system. This will give a potential increase in hunter success rates, IF the problem of accessing elk in these "problem" areas can be achieved.

AFGA has also discussed expanding the use of landowner tags in conjunction with allowing these landowners the opportunity to hold both a general Antlered tag and a landowner cow licence.... the main reasoning is that these elk are mostly found on private property where access is very limited to the public, thus harvest by the public is very limited.

Not sure if this is gaining any traction. I am personally opposed to the concept of increasing/expanding the landowner licence allocation under the current system.


The wmu's surrounding Suffield will likely soon have a general rifle season....

But how to deal with the other areas with "problem" elk?

A short general any elk season?
Allow a hunter to hold both a general bull and Antlerless special licence?

Work with the landowners to find a way to make the current or increased elk population more acceptable?

[Bulldog Edm]

How about starting a land access program through the F&W. Land owners with problem elk and hunters who would like access sign up. Hunters could create a profile. There can even be a rating system where the land owners leave a review. For example ... he was respectful, followed the rules, cleaned up after themselves ... or he rotted up my field with his big 4x4 truck, didn't leave gates closed ...
It could be a win win for everyone. Land owners would get to pick from registered hunters. The review/rating system would give them a good idea of who they are giving access to. It can give them better control of who and when hunters are using there land. Hunters might be able to get access to properties that were previously accessible.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by Bulldog Edm

How about starting a land access program through the F&W. Land owners with problem elk and hunters who would like access sign up. Hunters could create a profile. There can even be a rating system where the land owners leave a review. For example ... he was respectful, followed the rules, cleaned up after themselves ... or he rotted up my field with his big 4x4 truck, didn't leave gates closed ...
It could be a win win for everyone. Land owners would get to pick from registered hunters. The review/rating system would give them a good idea of who they are giving access to. It can give them better control of who and when hunters are using there land. Hunters might be able to get access to properties that were previously accessible.

There was/is a use respect program, but like many other things idiots ruined that. Many see these types of systems like a first step to paid access.

Many landowners prefer to give access to those they already know and have relationships/friendships with.

LC

[Bigstone]

Elk, Moose, and Mule Deer are essentially gone from the foothills of west central Alberta and they are trying hard to decimate the Whitetails with the ridiculous doe and fawn seasons. It's sickening.

[dshaw]

I agree there are some areas of the province that need numbers reduced (suffield and other areas of "no Hunting"). If landowners want elk gone off their place then open it to hunting. I know lots of landowners that run a good ship with their land and what is harvested and how many hunters are on their place during the season. Aside from these problem areas my question is why does the government want to reduce elk in other places? Or is just these problem areas? Do they want to introduce more buffalo and need other grazers gone from the area? I look at Montana and the population of elk they have compared to us and think what are they doing that is so successful to have high numbers of elk and lots of hunting opportunity on general tags. Granted they have a lot lower population than us. The crown land is a great place to hunt elk, I would like to see more elk while out but not sure how to get numbers up. 6 point rule seems to work well in B.C. but i'm not very educated on the history of the success of that rule. I think as long as our population keeps going up hunters are going to have to look for other harvest opportunities throughout the province.

[Supergrit]

I need to find s zone were there is s over population of elk.

[Joe Black]

[QUOTE=LKILR;3532320]So want want it to be easier to hunt elk successfully? There is plenty of elk in Alberta. Should not be too hard to harvest an anterless elk IMO. Those who choose to hunt Bulls only are only cheating themselves. Elk taste the same with or with out antlers. Elk are challenging to hunt and it takes skill. Some hunters don't have the skills to be successful. More elk could be harvested if more hunters exited te vehicle or got off the ATV.[/QUOTE

I agree. It think it should be illegal to shoot an elk unless you hunt on a horse.

[Outcast]

[QUOTE=Joe Black;3534720]

Originally Posted by LKILR

So want want it to be easier to hunt elk successfully? There is plenty of elk in Alberta. Should not be too hard to harvest an anterless elk IMO. Those who choose to hunt Bulls only are only cheating themselves. Elk taste the same with or with out antlers. Elk are challenging to hunt and it takes skill. Some hunters don't have the skills to be successful. More elk could be harvested if more hunters exited te vehicle or got off the ATV.[/QUOTE

I agree. It think it should be illegal to shoot an elk unless you hunt on a horse.

Why should it be illegal?

[Bigstone]

Originally Posted by dshaw

I agree there are some areas of the province that need numbers reduced (suffield and other areas of "no Hunting"). If landowners want elk gone off their place then open it to hunting. I know lots of landowners that run a good ship with their land and what is harvested and how many hunters are on their place during the season. Aside from these problem areas my question is why does the government want to reduce elk in other places? Or is just these problem areas? Do they want to introduce more buffalo and need other grazers gone from the area? I look at Montana and the population of elk they have compared to us and think what are they doing that is so successful to have high numbers of elk and lots of hunting opportunity on general tags. Granted they have a lot lower population than us. The crown land is a great place to hunt elk, I would like to see more elk while out but not sure how to get numbers up. 6 point rule seems to work well in B.C. but i'm not very educated on the history of the success of that rule. I think as long as our population keeps going up hunters are going to have to look for other harvest opportunities throughout the province.

Montana considers Elk a valuable resource and manages them accordingly while Alberta sees them as a hindrance to industry, farmers, and insurance companies so they try to keep numbers as low as possible. They deserve the mess they created at Suffield and I'm enjoying every minute of it.

[Outdoorfanatic]

Originally Posted by Bigstone

Montana considers Elk a valuable resource and manages them accordingly while Alberta sees them as a hindrance to industry, farmers, and insurance companies so they try to keep numbers as low as possible. They deserve the mess they created at Suffield and I'm enjoying every minute of it.

A lot of truth here. There needs to be a philosophical change within our gov. Currently they don't respect hunters unless of coarse your treaty. I say this because look at how they treat the land access issue, posted land is one thing but our own gov uses the disguise of "park" or "conservation" to limit access to hunters on what has been traditionally open to hunting. Castle is just one, there are others. One right next to Edmonton that occurred this past November. Lease land all around Suffield another example. So everyone take note of the changes and be aware that your favourite elk hunt could very well change and change in ways that prevent access to your honey hole.

[LKILR]

[QUOTE=Outcast;3534750]

Originally Posted by Joe Black

Why should it be illegal?

. Fesecious comment. He don't like horseback hunting.

[winger7mm]

Originally Posted by Outdoorfanatic

A lot of truth here. There needs to be a philosophical change within our gov. Currently they don't respect hunters unless of coarse your treaty. I say this because look at how they treat the land access issue, posted land is one thing but our own gov uses the disguise of "park" or "conservation" to limit access to hunters on what has been traditionally open to hunting. Castle is just one, there are others. One right next to Edmonton that occurred this past November. Lease land all around Suffield another example. So everyone take note of the changes and be aware that your favourite elk hunt could very well change and change in ways that prevent access to your honey hole.

The thing is hunting doesn't bring in enough $$$. Tourism though cha-ching a bling bling

[Joe Black]

[QUOTE=LKILR;3534916]

Originally Posted by Outcast

. Fesecious comment. He don't like horseback hunting.

Just being cheeky. I believe all should have shared access as allowed, and opportunity to continue hunting on a general tag. Not many opportunities exist anymore for a general tag that you can plan on getting out with every year.When it comes to elk the prairie ones need protection(draw) or they will cease to exist. The mountain ones have to be figured out. That means years of exploring the land at all stages of the season to understand what they are doing. That is why it is so frustrating to me when you figure out a game plan and the government decides to change the rules.

No easy answer. Go completely on draw, less hunting opportunities and over population. Go open season, populations decrease. Predators and weather play into the equation as well. It would be a non issue if they did not taste so good.

[Bigstone]

[QUOTE=Joe Black;3535422]

Originally Posted by LKILR

Just being cheeky. I believe all should have shared access as allowed, and opportunity to continue hunting on a general tag. Not many opportunities exist anymore for a general tag that you can plan on getting out with every year.When it comes to elk the prairie ones need protection(draw) or they will cease to exist. The mountain ones have to be figured out. That means years of exploring the land at all stages of the season to understand what they are doing. That is why it is so frustrating to me when you figure out a game plan and the government decides to change the rules.

No easy answer. Go completely on draw, less hunting opportunities and over population. Go open season, populations decrease. Predators and weather play into the equation as well. It would be a non issue if they did not taste so good.

It's hard to "figure out" those mountain ones when they no longer exist, otherwise I agree with you.