Wild sheep

[mountainmonkey]

Wondering what everyone’s thoughts are on our wild sheep populations.
Do we do enough as Albertans to be advocates to our sheep?
Organizations like wsf help?

New to the board but it’s been on my mind for awhile

Thanks

[MooseRiverTrapper]

I’m not sure what WSF truly does for the sheep?

We have out of control wolf populations in the 400 zones. Trappers that aren’t active or active but not wolf killers.

Lions laying a licking on sheep wintering ranges.

Fire suppression/lack of prescribed burns.

Thankfully we have such a unique situation with all the park boundaries. I have hunted sheep all over Alberta and never once have I thought thanks WSF or what a great opportunity created by WSF.

An organization could take 429 ram mountain and run with it. Instead there are a dozen sheep left there for the Indians and lions.

[416 Ultramag]

Our sheep populations could definitely be better.

Pretty Much the same as above post. we may have park boundaries but the wolves and cougars know no boundaries. Also I feel that we need better education on the harvest of mature rams rather than just legal rams.

[cowmanbob]

Definatly think the WSF is a worthwhile organization to join.

[pikeslayer22]

Originally Posted by MooseRiverTrapper

I’m not sure what WSF truly does for the sheep?

We have out of control wolf populations in the 400 zones. Trappers that aren’t active or active but not wolf killers.

Lions laying a licking on sheep wintering ranges.

Fire suppression/lack of prescribed burns.

Thankfully we have such a unique situation with all the park boundaries. I have hunted sheep all over Alberta and never once have I thought thanks WSF or what a great opportunity created by WSF.

An organization could take 429 ram mountain and run with it. Instead there are a dozen sheep left there for the Indians and lions.

This^^^^^

[Esox]

Not entirely sure what all the Alberta chapter of the wild sheep foundation does in alberta, although I wwould like to get involved with them more. The BC chapter seems to be heavily involved with the province to do prescribed burns, population studies etc.

[416 Ultramag]

Just curious. What is peoples thoughts on improving our sheep populations? Both in numbers and trophy potential How and Why?

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by 416 Ultramag

Just curious. What is peoples thoughts on improving our sheep populations? Both in numbers and trophy potential How and Why?

See post #2. That would be a pretty good start

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by 416 Ultramag

Just curious. What is peoples thoughts on improving our sheep populations? Both in numbers and trophy potential How and Why?

Other than in a few specific wmus, our sheep populations are doing well.
Fragile yet tough buggers.

Increasing their numbers is probably a bad direction to go. Sheep do not do well at high population densities. Boom then bust.

As far as "trophy" potential, if you mean bigger horns, the best way to do this is to increase habitat quality and increase the ewe harvest back to 1980s levels. It is well proven that a 10% ewe harvest leads to a more vigorous population with higher birth rates and larger horned rams. We are now harvesting ewes at around a 1% rate.

In this fashion, sheep are kind of like wolves....

[bdub]

Numbers are ok, trophy potential is poor but that's what happens when you kill the vast majority of the ram population that reaches 4/5 curl in the province each year. Tough to see any trophy potential when we kill off a large number of the rams of that class. We need a system that lets us have some mature rams make through hunting season each year. Barring that, Alberta is the land of hunting the park borders or praying for a Cadomin draw if you want to kill an older sheep for the most part.

[Tony the fish]

I think all zones should go to draw ... less people shooting squeakers every year


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[Brian Bildson]

Don't just speculate whether WSFA is doing any good. If you care about sheep in Alberta become a member of the organization, and better yet attend our banquet & AGM in Red Deer March 8 - 9. Details at www.wsfab.org

I'm new on the WSFA Board but I walked into a well-oiled machine. WSFA has done more for Alberta sheep than anyone else. Don't forget we don't have management control. All we can do is be strong advocates.

We've paid for Arial surveys, push for prescribed burns, help in live captures, have funded predator control measures, and on and on. The passion of sheep hunters in general borders on obsessive, and this Board is no different, we care about sheep.

This year's banquet features a "wall of rams" so come check out what this province is capable of producing. It's great you guys are interested in sheep.

[bonedogg]

Originally Posted by Tony the fish

I think all zones should go to draw ... less people shooting squeakers every year


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says the guy that has shot a Squeaker in the past??? Squeakers are still fine trophies, after one shoots a Squeaker, everyone wants a big one. Lots of guys that have a handful of squeakers looking for that next level want a big one to come down to the road for an, "easy one". or Hey lets put them on draw so I can shoot a big one easily now since the rest of the competition is minimized..... Still a handful of booners shot every year in general zones.

[Tony the fish]

In my opinion..... a draw will reduce the numbers of sheep hunters every year in a given zone and allow the the sheep trophy quality potential to rise that’s all ... you see that in every draw zone for any species in Alberta .. why would sheep be any different


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[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Other than in a few specific wmus, our sheep populations are doing well.
Fragile yet tough buggers.

Increasing their numbers is probably a bad direction to go. Sheep do not do well at high population densities. Boom then bust.

As far as "trophy" potential, if you mean bigger horns, the best way to do this is to increase habitat quality and increase the ewe harvest back to 1980s levels. It is well proven that a 10% ewe harvest leads to a more vigorous population with higher birth rates and larger horned rams. We are now harvesting ewes at around a 1% rate.

In this fashion, sheep are kind of like wolves....

A whole lot of WMU's to the north of you where the numbers have decreased dramatically in the last 10-15 years. Maybe you're thinking kcountry of which my experience is more limited?

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by Brian Bildson

Don't just speculate whether WSFA is doing any good. If you care about sheep in Alberta become a member of the organization, and better yet attend our banquet & AGM in Red Deer March 8 - 9. Details at www.wsfab.org

I'm new on the WSFA Board but I walked into a well-oiled machine. WSFA has done more for Alberta sheep than anyone else. Don't forget we don't have management control. All we can do is be strong advocates.

We've paid for Arial surveys, push for prescribed burns, help in live captures, have funded predator control measures, and on and on. The passion of sheep hunters in general borders on obsessive, and this Board is no different, we care about sheep.

This year's banquet features a "wall of rams" so come check out what this province is capable of producing. It's great you guys are interested in sheep.

Exactly
If people have want to see more sheep on the mountain why not join a foundation that has the same objective.
I’ve never met a group of people more passionate than sheep hunters
Sounds like The op has a few good ideas I’m sure they would love to have you aboard

[medicmoose]

Originally Posted by MooseRiverTrapper

I’m not sure what WSF truly does for the sheep?

We have out of control wolf populations in the 400 zones. Trappers that aren’t active or active but not wolf killers.

Lions laying a licking on sheep wintering ranges.

Fire suppression/lack of prescribed burns.

Thankfully we have such a unique situation with all the park boundaries. I have hunted sheep all over Alberta and never once have I thought thanks WSF or what a great opportunity created by WSF.

An organization could take 429 ram mountain and run with it. Instead there are a dozen sheep left there for the Indians and lions.

Ok where to start on all this.

First off I feel in general we have very stable sheep numbers our ewe to lamb ratio is excellent. So is our ram to ewe ratio
We as hunters need to be very careful. I feel we need to manage for a heathy herd and not for "trophy quality" every ram out there has a momma. Het needs to be carried until birth and supported its first year. To try and only manage trophy quality is very short sighted and does nothing to manage our sheep and frankly shows what some are worried more about horn size and not our wild sheep.
If we really want to help our herds its Habitat and reduction in predation.
I feel we can do allot of this with prescribed burns and mechanical deforestation.
getting rid of forest encroachment on feeding and watering areas will give the sheep the top quality grazing while giving them the buffer they need to be aware of approaching predators.
Managing winter grazing habitat is the most important.

As Brian has stated Wild Sheep foundation Alberta does allot more in this province than people are aware.
We are always going to bat getting prescribed burns off the ground. (govt pending)
Trail enhancements
We fund trappers who successfully trap wolves in SMA's and the same with registered hounds-men who harvest cougars in SMA's
We pay to fly bios for "sheep counts"
We are funding disease testing in live capture and hunter harvested sheep
We are working with the govt on changes coming to the domestic sheep separation issue.
the list goes on and on.

Just my 2 cents

Matt

[MooseRiverTrapper]

Originally Posted by medicmoose

Ok where to start on all this.

First off I feel in general we have very stable sheep numbers our ewe to lamb ratio is excellent. So is our ram to ewe ratio
We as hunters need to be very careful. I feel we need to manage for a heathy herd and not for "trophy quality" every ram out there has a momma. Het needs to be carried until birth and supported its first year. To try and only manage trophy quality is very short sighted and does nothing to manage our sheep and frankly shows what some are worried more about horn size and not our wild sheep.
If we really want to help our herds its Habitat and reduction in predation.
I feel we can do allot of this with prescribed burns and mechanical deforestation.
getting rid of forest encroachment on feeding and watering areas will give the sheep the top quality grazing while giving them the buffer they need to be aware of approaching predators.
Managing winter grazing habitat is the most important.

As Brian has stated Wild Sheep foundation Alberta does allot more in this province than people are aware.
We are always going to bat getting prescribed burns off the ground. (govt pending)
Trail enhancements
We fund trappers who successfully trap wolves in SMA's and the same with registered hounds-men who harvest cougars in SMA's
We pay to fly bios for "sheep counts"
We are funding disease testing in live capture and hunter harvested sheep
We are working with the govt on changes coming to the domestic sheep separation issue.
the list goes on and on.

Just my 2 cents

Matt

I’ve tried to collect a SMA cougar kill fund, it proved to be so difficult I gave up. I haven never seen excellent ewe to lamb ratio, we must hunt different areas. Good to hear the lambs in your area are doing well.

[medicmoose]

Im not referring to my "area" nor my own opinion. The Data provided from bios flying SMAs throughout the province say the Ewe to Lamb ratio is doing very well.
Im curious as to what you would call a healthy ratio?
as far as collecting your $ for you cougar kill what was the difficult part?
what could go better?

regards

[charlie]

Put sheep on draw and manage predators

[RZR]

Same bullshat every year about this time with the sheep being in dire need of a population boost. There is nothing wrong with the numbers in Alberta and there are still book rams out there you just have to be lucky, but then I guess there are those that think every ram should be a book ram. Here’s one for you there are zones out there that will never carry a book ram because the genetics just aren’t there.

[medicmoose]

How does a draw do anything for our wild sheep .
Limiting hunting opertunities does nothing for habitat management and in the long run only manages people

[thegunman]

Originally Posted by RZR

Same bullshat every year about this time with the sheep being in dire need of a population boost. There is nothing wrong with the numbers in Alberta and there are still book rams out there you just have to be lucky, but then I guess there are those that think every ram should be a book ram. Here’s one for you there are zones out there that will never carry a book ram because the genetics just aren’t there.

By the People of The Peaks panther Range book and have a gander through that. You may be unfamiliar with that area but I’m not. Those areas were historic sheep grounds. Now? There’s isn’t A SHEEP in the majority of those spots.

If people say nothing has changed with our sheep quality and numbers. They’ve taken to many pulls off the pipe.

[bdub]

Originally Posted by medicmoose

Ok where to start on all this.

I feel we need to manage for a heathy herd and not for "trophy quality" every ram out there has a momma. Het needs to be carried until birth and supported its first year. To try and only manage trophy quality is very short sighted and does nothing to manage our sheep and frankly shows what some are worried more about horn size and not our wild sheep.
If we really want to help our herds its Habitat and reduction in predation.
I feel we can do allot of this with prescribed burns and mechanical deforestation.
getting rid of forest encroachment on feeding and watering areas will give the sheep the top quality grazing while giving them the buffer they need to be aware of approaching predators.
Managing winter grazing habitat is the most important.


Matt

Managing for a balanced age structure in the ram segment of the herd is all about doing what is best for the sheep herd overall. Why is that so hard to grasp for most of you guys advocating for the current for the current way we manage the ram harvest. Sheep did not evolve in a situation where every ram that reaches 4/5 curl, irregardless of age is removed from the population. We are managing rams for maximum harvest levels. We need to do something that manages rams on age instead. Saying that guys who are advocating for better age structure ie trophy potential are self serving is BS. The guys advocating for things staying the same should look in the mirror.
I agree that something needs to be done on habitat with burns. But that is another joke I won't bother to, get into other than to say we don't do a fraction of what is needed. Predators same thing.

[RZR]

Originally Posted by medicmoose

How does a draw do anything for our wild sheep .
Limiting hunting opertunities does nothing for habitat management and in the long run only manages people

2x.... But yet there are those that think it's the hunters that are the so called problem. I'm going to go out on a limb and say there is more lose to predators/habit then to humans.

[bonedogg]

anyone of you guys an actual wildlife Bio?

[MooseRiverTrapper]

Originally Posted by bonedogg

anyone of you guys an actual wildlife Bio?

A couple more concussions and I might qualify.

[cowmanbob]

Originally Posted by MooseRiverTrapper

A couple more concussions and I might qualify.

A bit of a low blow to most biologists, but I do think some of them need to spend more time in the outdoors.

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by cowmanbob

A bit of a low blow to most biologists, but I do think some of them need to spend more time in the outdoors.

Correct

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by bdub

Managing for a balanced age structure in the ram segment of the herd is all about doing what is best for the sheep herd overall. Why is that so hard to grasp for most of you guys advocating for the current for the current way we manage the ram harvest. Sheep did not evolve in a situation where every ram that reaches 4/5 curl, irregardless of age is removed from the population. We are managing rams for maximum harvest levels. We need to do something that manages rams on age instead. Saying that guys who are advocating for better age structure ie trophy potential are self serving is BS. The guys advocating for things staying the same should look in the mirror.
I agree that something needs to be done on habitat with burns. But that is another joke I won't bother to, get into other than to say we don't do a fraction of what is needed. Predators same thing.

We need to manage rams on age?

You do realize that the current regulations are solely for that purpose?

And that the current average harvest age for rams is 8?


So, what are you advocating for, a legal ram to be 9, 10, 12?

Or are you advocating that we eliminate 90% of sheep hunting by going to a draw?

Or eliminate 80% of sheep harvest by going to Full curl, which still average 8 years old when killed?