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03-17-2019, 05:27 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 165
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oil and gas road cops
I am looking for informed information on their rights and authorities. With all the activities in my area of work they are becoming numerous and are enforcing road rules, speed limits and anything else they can.
Do they have any rights to stop or direct traffic on these leased roads? Do I have to stop for their yellow flashing lights? Under what legislation or act are they working?
If I get a fine ($500) do I have to pay it? Is their an appeal process to fight it?
I am only looking for facts. I don't need your opinions, suggestions or bashing. Just asking.
Thanks
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03-17-2019, 05:42 PM
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Moderator
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Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 7,662
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When I was up in Fort Nelson, the oil and gas companies essentially owned the road the cops patrolled. They are given their authority by the oil and gas companies. So, my understanding is, you don't have to pay the fine, but it will then likely be kinda tough to work for said companies, which is why you are likely on the roads in the first place. I believe they can kick you off the road, and charge you for trespassing, if you decide not to comply.
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03-17-2019, 05:43 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 3,343
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I have never seen or heard of this. Looking forward to someone chiming in on this.
Dodger
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03-17-2019, 05:44 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: West Central Alberta
Posts: 6,670
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First off, depends if you are a commercial or private individual using the road.
Secondly, if on crown land they are not a “leased” road, they actually own the road usually thru a license of occupation.
Need more info on road and your position at time of “ticketing”. If a commercial user and if you do not pay then they can legally bar your company from using their roads. If a commercial user there will be a road use agreement in place that probably specifies the rules of the road and consequences of not following said rules.
If you were just a private user I would file it in file 19 myself.
Last edited by JohninAB; 03-17-2019 at 05:58 PM.
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03-17-2019, 05:46 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Lacombe, AB
Posts: 1,404
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trochu
When I was up in Fort Nelson, the oil and gas companies essentially owned the road the cops patrolled. They are given their authority by the oil and gas companies. So, my understanding is, you don't have to pay the fine, but it will then likely be kinda tough to work for said companies, which is why you are likely on the roads in the first place. I believe they can kick you off the road, and charge you for trespassing, if you decide not to comply.
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This has been my understanding as well.
They have no legal authority, but if you want to work for the company you better play by the rules. Even if the company you are working for isn't the company that owns the road, you could lose your RUA.
Our company has an easy policy, you play by the rules or you find a new job.
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03-17-2019, 06:50 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 304
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I don’t know about B.C., but in Alberta private roads are private, in the sense that they are built and maintained with oil company dollars, not public funds. They are held under a License of Occupation Certificate (LOC), and the holder can make any kind of rules they want regarding traffic on those roads.
Most companies tolerate private traffic if private users abide by those rules. Unfortunately, as is so often the case, a few bad apples ruin it for the majority. If you’re issued a ticket on a private road, it’s no doubt because you failed to respect the rules laid down by the Licensee. If you don’t pay it, they have the lawful right to take you to court. That probably depends on how many jerks have been pi$$ing them off lately. Most often they won’t bother, but if you come back and act like a jerk a second time you might be introduced to a different kind of justice.
The rules are in place for a reason - careless hunters rut up rain soaked roads, speeding vehicles sideswipe loaded B-trains hauling hydrocarbons, people who hit the ditch help themselves to (and often damage) heavy equipment, and stray bullets don’t do any good to 400 bbl. tanks.
When a road is private, and you’re not on it for the business of the Licensee, you’re already a trespasser and unwelcome. If you’re being tolerated, at least be respectful.
Last edited by Oldan Grumpi; 03-17-2019 at 06:56 PM.
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03-17-2019, 06:54 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 41
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As mentioned the fines are voluntary, and usually are a 'donation' to a charity. If you plan to work in the area getting busted can suck, I have heard of companies that will ban you for 24hrs for the first infraction, a week for 2nd, and ban you for a third, and thats not even if you work for them, just a service provider. I have had a couple companies tell me if you work directly for them the first infraction is a week off work. Just depends, but if your livelihood depends on it getting banned can suck. I see around the Fox Creek area that this has really stepped up lately, frankly getting a little annoying.
If you are just out hunting etc, there isnt much they can do, but will log your plate number.
Simonette can be pushy when they are doing work there, Bigstone and the ANC are getting tighter as well.
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03-17-2019, 07:04 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 304
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If I’m on a radio controlled road and diligently calling klicks, and you’re bumbling along with no radio and I meet you on a blind corner, rest assured that I’m not the one who’s taking the ditch - or stopping to see if you’re alright. If you cause an accident, don’t let expect any mercy from the guy whose livelihood you just put in jeopardy.
If you’re going to use those roads, buy a radio, learn to use it correctly, and abide by the same rules as those who make their living out there.
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03-18-2019, 12:48 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,380
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Private users.
They have no authority over you.
They cannot legally give you a ticket. They can report your licence plate to the RCMP who can then issue a ticket.
They can restrict non business travel on some roads. Depends on their road use agreement with the government.
They will try to flex their power some times. Just be polite and dont be a jerk.
Dont speed and dont force others into the ditch.
(Remember if they complain enough to the government one of a couple things can happen. 1. Nothing, 2.the RCMP/Conservation Officers might patrol more often. 3. The province shuts down public access to the area.
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03-18-2019, 03:22 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: West Central Alberta
Posts: 6,670
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Contrary to what a previous poster has stated, a company cannot restrict a private individual from using a road held under a LOC.
Conditions can be put on the road by government if they deem it necessary to restrict access say for fish and wildlife purposes.
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03-18-2019, 05:28 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: At the end of the Thirsty Beaver Trail, Pinsky lake, Alberta.
Posts: 24,607
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Well first off obey them....the guys and gals have the right to work safely so obey the signage etc put up.....if it is 30km speed limit etc its for a reason so slow down and obey, they too want to go home to thier families at the end of a shift.
Now if you do this then who really gives a ratz azz who enforces it....just do it.
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03-18-2019, 08:18 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,073
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 58thecat
Well first off obey them....the guys and gals have the right to work safely so obey the signage etc put up.....if it is 30km speed limit etc its for a reason so slow down and obey, they too want to go home to thier families at the end of a shift.
Now if you do this then who really gives a ratz azz who enforces it....just do it.
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X2
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03-18-2019, 09:08 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,264
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I work Oil & Gas, most of the main roads are owned by Weyerhaeuser or Forecorp. If a company is caught speeding, overweight, travelling outside of road ban hours it is a $5000 fine to the oil company (Forecorp) and odds are the person caught/company won't be working for that oil company anymore. Especially when an oil company gets the boot off the road and can't access their projects. The road cops are out there enforcing road bans and safety, some of these roads are very dangerous when there is heavy oil/logging traffic. You don't want to be on a lot of these roads without a radio or you are asking to get run off the road or worse. The Logging/oil companies spent millions and millions of dollars building and maintaining the roads, why would they not have a say who gets to travel them?
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03-18-2019, 10:48 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,380
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohninAB
Contrary to what a previous poster has stated, a company cannot restrict a private individual from using a road held under a LOC.
Conditions can be put on the road by government if they deem it necessary to restrict access say for fish and wildlife purposes.
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This is part of my post that you tried to discredit what I replied with. We need to read the post, understand the post. Before trying to discredit a post. Its a new thing called comprehension.
"They can restrict non business travel on some roads. Depends on their road use agreement with the government"
Hmm Sunpine Road. Restricted travel,
I think it's the chungo road west of Rock restricted.
Chambers creek east and chambers creek west. Restricted towards the end of both. As a matter of fact the trail network has been ripped apart by the private companies. (Government involved in that one).
There are a few more roads out west that are public access restricted.
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03-18-2019, 10:59 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,380
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skytop B
I work Oil & Gas, most of the main roads are owned by Weyerhaeuser or Forecorp. If a company is caught speeding, overweight, travelling outside of road ban hours it is a $5000 fine to the oil company (Forecorp) and odds are the person caught/company won't be working for that oil company anymore. Especially when an oil company gets the boot off the road and can't access their projects. The road cops are out there enforcing road bans and safety, some of these roads are very dangerous when there is heavy oil/logging traffic. You don't want to be on a lot of these roads without a radio or you are asking to get run off the road or worse. The Logging/oil companies spent millions and millions of dollars building and maintaining the roads, why would they not have a say who gets to travel them?
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It's funny in BC growing up I remember travelling the logging roads out there. The oversize bunk trucks would alway be courteous, they would radio politely that there were 4wheelers on the road without radios. What km they were at and never had a problem. Those trucks took up the road.
Out here I understand it, I have driven heavy and wide on many of these roads. But a large portion of truck drivers are jerks. Not only to 4 wheelers but to themselves.
Logging truck driver jerks to everyone, gravel truck jerks to everyone, bed trucks dont care usually bigger the everyone.
You use to as a 4 wheeler pull off the or over to the extreme of the road for big trucks. If you went into the ditch they would check their mirror. The would help pull you out.
Not many will do that nowadays.
Things have changed so much in very few years, it's disgusting what has happened and is getting worse.
Pretty soon the government in conjunction with logging and oil and gas will have many roads out west with limited access due to protecting the "wildlife".
That's how they get around the so called land use agreements where roads have to be opened to public access. Just state its to protect the caribou, or declining animal population. Wave of wand a gate goes up and access is denied to the public.
Many times this is done when roads are mistreated by public users and or incidents happen on them.
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03-18-2019, 11:37 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: West Central Alberta
Posts: 6,670
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ctd
This is part of my post that you tried to discredit what I replied with. We need to read the post, understand the post. Before trying to discredit a post. Its a new thing called comprehension.
"They can restrict non business travel on some roads. Depends on their road use agreement with the government"
Hmm Sunpine Road. Restricted travel,
I think it's the chungo road west of Rock restricted.
Chambers creek east and chambers creek west. Restricted towards the end of both. As a matter of fact the trail network has been ripped apart by the private companies. (Government involved in that one).
There are a few more roads out west that are public access restricted.
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I stated a previous poster, not your post, so take some courses in comprehension yourself.
Maybe read the last line in my post.
Last edited by JohninAB; 03-18-2019 at 11:44 AM.
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03-18-2019, 01:28 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,380
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohninAB
I stated a previous poster, not your post, so take some courses in comprehension yourself.
Maybe read the last line in my post.
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And conditions can be put on some roads by the compnay who controlls the road also.
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03-18-2019, 02:16 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: edmonton
Posts: 3,116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ctd
And conditions can be put on some roads by the compnay who controlls the road also.
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But the person writing the ticket must be classified as a peace officer and licensed as such by the Solicitor Generals office. Most of these so called oil and gas road cops are just private security who have no legal right to write you a ticket or issue any kind of fine. They do have the right to arrest you for trespassing ( possibly other crimes as well) on private property though.They can also legally issue you a ban on private property It all depends on how the lands are being held. If its an active construction site, or excavation there are also legal requirements to keep the public off.
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03-18-2019, 02:34 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,604
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostguy6
But the person writing the ticket must be classified as a peace officer and licensed as such by the Solicitor Generals office. Most of these so called oil and gas road cops are just private security who have no legal right to write you a ticket or issue any kind of fine. They do have the right to arrest you for trespassing ( possibly other crimes as well) on private property though.They can also legally issue you a ban on private property It all depends on how the lands are being held. If its an active construction site, or excavation there are also legal requirements to keep the public off.
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This ^^^
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03-18-2019, 06:05 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 5,652
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Ok, if you are average joe, during on private roads, say Weyerhaeuser, Whitecap, Vermilion etc, you can't be ticketed obviously.
You can however be pulled over for speeding, or driving like a douche canoe.
Speed limits are set for obvious reasons, on these bush roads, so damn well adhere to them, might save your life.
If you are say with a frac, rig move , or any company that involves convoys to location, trust me...
You better be following the speed limits, call patterns on radio controlled roads etc.
I do road use agreements for rig moves on my trucks daily, privately oil company, or logging roads are not to be messed with if you want to be on them.
Security checks, permit in all trucks...
more to it than a lot of fellers think.
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03-18-2019, 07:28 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 6,496
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ctd
Pretty soon the government in conjunction with logging and oil and gas will have many roads out west with limited access due to protecting the "wildlife".
That's how they get around the so called land use agreements where roads have to be opened to public access. Just state its to protect the caribou, or declining animal population. Wave of wand a gate goes up and access is denied to the public.
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Which is pretty funny considering their roads are the #1 reason for declines in ungulate numbers in the first place
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You matter. Unless you multiply yourself by the speed of light squared... ...then you energy.
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03-18-2019, 07:58 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Caroline
Posts: 7,271
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 270person
Which is pretty funny considering their roads are the #1 reason for declines in ungulate numbers in the first place
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......that would be an eyeroll
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Two reasons you may think CO2 is a pollutant
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2. You're stupid
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03-18-2019, 09:48 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 6,496
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainTi
......that would be an eyeroll
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http://https://youtu.be/VVY3gjr4oHs
I'm going to guess you don't agree with his assessment and have a much better explanation. I cant wait. Or maybe you just want to surmise that it's all predator related but can't make the jump as to why they can do more damage than they used to.
Nawww. Roads through the backcountry never cause things to change. Habitat isn't disturbed at all. Nooooo. I can personally attest to a band of 43 bighorn ewes and lambs west of Sundre being wiped out in entirety within a week of a new logging road being cut into the high country near their summer graze. Wasnt wolves doing the predating in that case but that road put those 2 legged predators within arms reach of those sheep. Something those slugs would never have contemplated if it had involved walking more than a half mile.
Roads don't make it easier to get into country that was basically untouched years ago? ...that would be you getting encouraged to awaken from your stupor.
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You matter. Unless you multiply yourself by the speed of light squared... ...then you energy.
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03-19-2019, 05:00 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 397
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 58thecat
Well first off obey them....the guys and gals have the right to work safely so obey the signage etc put up.....if it is 30km speed limit etc its for a reason so slow down and obey, they too want to go home to thier families at the end of a shift.
Now if you do this then who really gives a ratz azz who enforces it....just do it.
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This exactly, if the idiots showed some respect maybe we wouldn't be seeing so many gated leases and the oil companies wouldn't have to be wasting so much money on private security. Show some respect and act like a grown up and you shouldn't have any issues.
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03-19-2019, 06:20 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: In a tree near ALTA
Posts: 3,061
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hayseed
Ok, if you are average joe, during on private roads, say Weyerhaeuser, Whitecap, Vermilion etc, you can't be ticketed obviously.
You can however be pulled over for speeding, or driving like a douche canoe.
Speed limits are set for obvious reasons, on these bush roads, so damn well adhere to them, might save your life.
If you are say with a frac, rig move , or any company that involves convoys to location, trust me...
You better be following the speed limits, call patterns on radio controlled roads etc.
I do road use agreements for rig moves on my trucks daily, privately oil company, or logging roads are not to be messed with if you want to be on them.
Security checks, permit in all trucks...
more to it than a lot of fellers think.
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Yes, I worked several years for O&G companies on roads built ,Licensed or maintained by O&G contractors doing CVI enforcements, road speed ( with
certified radar ) and Motor vehicle compliance as to MVAct ,accurate Log Books, Workers comp, etc
All the same rules of motor vehicle and compensation regs plus ANY additional conditions of employment agreed to by employees and drivers conditional to the employer safety rules, above that any suspected Criminal code offences ( DUI , theft, dangerous driving etc, were forwarded immediately to the RCMP,
there were NO tickets , issued or implied,
but for example " an employee going 15 kph over posted company speeds on a designated speed zone , would be looking for a new job within 72 hours of his unit, licence number being reported to company management at head office,
A few of the companies enforcing safe road SENCE with no tolerance to serious violators ,
Shell
Encana
Murphy
CNRL
And many others ,
The number 1 cause/place of workplace deaths western Canada ? Employee drivers on the road to or from or while at work !
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