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  #61  
Old 03-01-2024, 09:32 AM
Geraldsh Geraldsh is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Dynamic View Post
https://fcpp.org/2023/12/29/boxing-d...-a-good-thing/

It has happened. Whatever strain Iím using you should probably jump on board.

Obviously you would still have all the mandatory fees to pay but the cost of the actual power itself was 0. It happens on windy days when you have excess supply
In my mind the mandatory fees means the power is not free
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  #62  
Old 03-01-2024, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by roughneckin View Post
There currently doing this for backup actually in areas that donít have a back feed power options such as Waterton. Not a FT use but decent for power outages.
At what cost? I find it far more cost effective to keep a generator in the shop for prolonged power outages. Batteries have a shelf life and that shelf life can be short depending on a few variables such as temp, charging frequency, ect...
Batteries for power storage will never be a viable option IMO
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  #63  
Old 03-01-2024, 09:53 AM
Sledhead71 Sledhead71 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by pikergolf View Post
What we really need is a way to store power.
I have always thought the idea of storing compressed air in the caverns similar to the natural gas storage facilities. When the demand is great, free flow the compressed air to turbines providing power needed for the grid.

Years ago I read about a similar project using balloon type storage under water. When there wasn't the high demand for electricity, these balloons were filled and used during non peek times to turn generators.
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  #64  
Old 03-01-2024, 10:34 AM
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AxeMan AxeMan is offline
 
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Sledhead:

At NAIT, we have a Flywheel energy storage (FES) device. Essentially, a high inertia flywheel with magnetic bearings and spinning in a vacuum chamber.

Units are out there for mostly offgrid systems of up to about 25 kWh. They work well, but $$$. Scaling up to utility scale would be difficult.

Lots of energy storage ideas around, other than batteries. Pump up water and use micro-hydro, super-capacitors, compressed air, salt brine thermal storage, etc. Most are expensive at this point, especially when scaled up to utility scale. Pumped hydroelectric storage is the most popular idea at this point. In some regards a bit silly though, as nature does this for us already without PV panels or wind turbines. Small scale off-grid is the most promising realistic practical use of these ideas.
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  #65  
Old 03-01-2024, 12:13 PM
Dynamic Dynamic is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Geraldsh View Post
In my mind the mandatory fees means the power is not free
I can see that argument, think of it like driving a car and gas was free. Obviously you still have costs that are still going to be present. But you bet your ass the line ups would be huge.

The biggest issue for me is that wind and solar can provide energy and should have access to the market. That is why they deregulated the market in the first place. To spur competition and innovation. And they got it, thatís why wind energy was and us so successful in Alberta. You donít get to deregulate the market and then also play gatekeeper with final say who can participate. Unless your a blatant hypocrite.
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  #66  
Old 03-01-2024, 12:47 PM
traderal traderal is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Dynamic View Post
I can see that argument, think of it like driving a car and gas was free. Obviously you still have costs that are still going to be present. But you bet your ass the line ups would be huge.

The biggest issue for me is that wind and solar can provide energy and should have access to the market. That is why they deregulated the market in the first place. To spur competition and innovation. And they got it, thatís why wind energy was and us so successful in Alberta. You donít get to deregulate the market and then also play gatekeeper with final say who can participate. Unless your a blatant hypocrite.
And here I thought that the kitchen cabinet met in Klein's living room to convince him to deregulate so they could in reality make ways to increase the cost to consumers and make lots and lots of money while high fiving each other, smoking them ceegars and drinking the best scotch. How did I come to that conclusion you say, eh, because my power bills tripled very shortly after that. You must live on a different planet.
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  #67  
Old 03-01-2024, 02:14 PM
dmcbride dmcbride is offline
 
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Originally Posted by traderal View Post
And here I thought that the kitchen cabinet met in Klein's living room to convince him to deregulate so they could in reality make ways to increase the cost to consumers and make lots and lots of money while high fiving each other, smoking them ceegars and drinking the best scotch. How did I come to that conclusion you say, eh, because my power bills tripled very shortly after that. You must live on a different planet.
Before Ralph deregulated power, Alberta was experiencing rolling brown outs. No one was investing in building more generating capacity. It took years for generating capacity to get to a point where there was competition. Before the NDP prematurely shut down coal Alberta had some of the lowest rates in the country. Now we have a bunch of intermittent generation competing with full time generating. I wish there was more rules for intermittent generation, as in less dollars paid for it.
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  #68  
Old 03-01-2024, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sledhead71 View Post
I have always thought the idea of storing compressed air in the caverns similar to the natural gas storage facilities. When the demand is great, free flow the compressed air to turbines providing power needed for the grid.

Years ago I read about a similar project using balloon type storage under water. When there wasn't the high demand for electricity, these balloons were filled and used during non peek times to turn generators.
If you Google ways to store energy you will find countless projects being tried out on small scales. If we ever get it figured out it would be a game changer. Imagine charging your vehicle over night on the energy your roof top solar field generated that day, or running your air on the wind that blew 2 days ago. It would change the world.
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  #69  
Old 03-01-2024, 02:24 PM
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Big Sky Big Sky is offline
 
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I read an article a few years ago about using hydrogen as a fuel

Solar panels produce electricity for use in electrolysis.
Electrolysis produces hydrogen.
Hydrogen gets stored for future use.
Hydrogen gets used as the fuel to produce electricity.

Is this process still being considered?
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  #70  
Old 03-01-2024, 04:26 PM
roughneckin roughneckin is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Big Sky View Post
I read an article a few years ago about using hydrogen as a fuel

Solar panels produce electricity for use in electrolysis.
Electrolysis produces hydrogen.
Hydrogen gets stored for future use.
Hydrogen gets used as the fuel to produce electricity.

Is this process still being considered?
Sadly Shell just bailed on hydrogen and got rid of all their stations in CA so if they are pulling the plug then itís probably not going well. Personally it seems like a great idea.
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  #71  
Old 03-01-2024, 09:23 PM
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Every time I drive past the solar farms on the north side of the TranCanada highway through Brooks, I think ĎOnce there was crops and cows here.Ē
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  #72  
Old 03-02-2024, 12:48 AM
Bushleague Bushleague is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainTi View Post
At what cost? I find it far more cost effective to keep a generator in the shop for prolonged power outages. Batteries have a shelf life and that shelf life can be short depending on a few variables such as temp, charging frequency, ect...
Batteries for power storage will never be a viable option IMO
In a past life I did wellhead maintenance, and a small block Chevy or Ford 300 with the right cams/ valves can provide a very long, trouble free life running on natural gas. I've often mused about the possibility of rigging up a skid in my shed and using natural gas to generate electricity as needed. If PP does indeed ditch the carbon tax it might be worthwhile.
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  #73  
Old 03-02-2024, 12:54 AM
Bushleague Bushleague is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roughneckin View Post
Sadly Shell just bailed on hydrogen and got rid of all their stations in CA so if they are pulling the plug then itís probably not going well. Personally it seems like a great idea.
To be fair, Shell seemed to have trouble making money at much of anything in Alberta. If you're quite often struggling to turn a profit on oil, even before things got tough, green energy might not be a good venture.

I often laugh when I see companies that proudly claim to be "Industry leaders in Safety", generally meaning they've found a way to generate more paperwork than everyone else. A few years back that was Shell... now most of their old fields (at least in my area) have CNRL signs on them. Food for thought young supervisor
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