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  #31  
Old 04-17-2019, 05:28 PM
The Elkster The Elkster is offline
 
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The herring fishery is just a joke. What an absolute waste of a key resource. Kill a massive amount of low value fish that are the anchor base of the food chain and key food source for almost every predator on the west coast from cod and salmon right up to whales.

The lack of hatchery work and river restoration and enhancement is another thing terribly lacking. Feds have basically ignored the west coast for years...but they always have time and money for those Quebec companies. Be nice to see companies like trans mountain partner with west coast fisheries societies to do what DFO is incapable of doing. It is my belief that with good management and a decent dose of money from companies trying to buy some good will, there could be enough salmon for all. More fish sounds like a better solution than every user group stabbing each other in the back. Hopefully this will push commies, rec and first nations fishers to come together to battle the true problem. Perhaps a push to make west coast waters a provincial matter. Ottawa is too busy sucking Quebec off to do anything and that isn't likely to change soon.
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  #32  
Old 04-17-2019, 08:02 PM
Scott h Scott h is offline
 
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Also the herring fishery takes away the Chinook's food, sends roe to Japan and the rest is made into meal for the fish farms out there which kill vast areas of sea floor with poop and medications, and infest the area with sea lice so dense they kill smolts returning from the rivers. The salmon have very little chance of competing with DFO. I was planning on fishing out of French Creek or Sooke this year but may head east instead. Too bad, I love it out there but C&R is just bad practice and no fun.
The fact that they are still running the commercial herring fishery is a perfect example of politics at it's best. 20,000 TONS of fish removed from bottom of the food chain just to satiate a few commercial fishermen. No one can say with a straight face that those fish wouldn't have been more valuable feeding salmon (and pretty much everything else).
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  #33  
Old 04-17-2019, 08:04 PM
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Default West Coast Fishing

Let's hunt Seals and Sea Lions. Save the Salmon!!
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  #34  
Old 04-17-2019, 08:31 PM
Tannerdog Tannerdog is offline
 
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Was told by family that has been in the business there for 40 yrs. that the sport catch is determined every year by subtracting the allotted commercial catch from the total "Volume" approved by the DFO. Sport/rec. gets what is left. Big reason that the catch limits change so often.
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  #35  
Old 04-17-2019, 11:11 PM
Bigrib Bigrib is offline
 
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The good news is you can keep all the Atlantic salmon you can catch because they aren't supposed to be spawning in the rivers that they are spawning in
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  #36  
Old 04-18-2019, 12:07 AM
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I always enjoyed jigging herring out of the Gorge in actually, right by what is now the Gorge Point Pub. Speared a good amount of salmon out of Goldstream too. Anytime I get back, I'll continue.
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  #37  
Old 04-18-2019, 08:01 AM
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Ditto half breed, back in the 70s it was an amazing fishery. I was watching some people there a few years back and they say it is a sad joke now.
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  #38  
Old 04-18-2019, 11:47 AM
IronNoggin IronNoggin is offline
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Originally Posted by Tannerdog View Post
Was told by family that has been in the business there for 40 yrs. that the sport catch is determined every year by subtracting the allotted commercial catch from the total "Volume" approved by the DFO. Sport/rec. gets what is left. Big reason that the catch limits change so often.
Close.

Overall abundance was / is calculated by the combined efforts of US and Canada. From that a series of calculations (which were designed to be conservative in nature) determines what is available for each country. Up to the countries to then distribute, in our case, via DFO.

Commercial catch is / was set by quota based upon certain percentages of the overall abundance figures. For the past decade and change, those percentages have been reduced every single year.

FN harvest has climbed at the same time as the commercial rate dropped. Most believe they have climbed faster than the reduction of the commercial quotas, something I believe as fact. In addition, FN's were granted a series of racially segregated commercial fisheries, both offshore and in the rivers. That of course gobbled up huge amounts of quota which the department hungrily scrambled to strip away from any source they could.

Recreational access has steadily climbed over that same time period. The initial fixed rate was recognized as insufficient better than a decade ago, and has steadily climbed every year since. Last year's supposed "cap" was in the neighborhood of 120,000 - 140.000 Chinook. In fact, that harvest was over 230,000. In the case of this sector, and the FN's, there has been no real way to actively monitor and / or curtail fishing activities once target numbers were reached. That, for the recreational fleet, just changed dramatically.

In the current quagmire of operations under the newly announced restrictions, the commercial catch will be much more than halved (realistically approaching one quarter of previous years or less), the recreational harvest will be reduced less than half overall, and FN's (on paper) will realize slight reductions. Already many of the latter's leaders have noted they will not comply.

Again, this really should not be a peeing contest as to who takes what. That is exactly what the department wants - to keep us from forming a united front. I am involved in efforts to do just that, and I am going to continue. Be great if others can find a way to climb on board for the benefit of not only ourselves, but more importantly, the overall well being of the resource.

Cheers,
Nog - Retired Marine Biologist
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  #39  
Old 04-18-2019, 04:26 PM
338Bluff 338Bluff is offline
 
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This is a relevant story.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...article625576/
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  #40  
Old 04-18-2019, 04:34 PM
IronNoggin IronNoggin is offline
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Originally Posted by 338Bluff View Post
Yes. It is.
Even though rather dated, the article does inform the reader of what actually occurs each and every year.
Most folks think of the FN illegal sales as referring to a few in a cooler in pick-up truck or even just a garbage bag of salmon being offered up. What they are missing is the scale. This continues today...

Nog
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  #41  
Old 04-18-2019, 04:43 PM
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for guys like me with ad-blocker

(it is disgusting that this is not shocking)

He called himself “king of the Fraser River native fishery.” He had 20 guys working for him and could deliver big numbers of salmon.

In a conversation secretly taped by Department of Fisheries and Oceans investigators, he told two U.S. undercover agents posing as American fish buyers that in an average season he could supply 150,000 pounds of sockeye. But if the money was right, and guaranteed in advance, he could get 10 times that amount.
More related to this story

Former B.C. chief says sockeye was stolen from her band
Excluded transcript frustrates group at Cohen inquiry
Natives getting sweetheart deals from government, B.C. Tory leader says

And that was just sockeye. Chinook, chum and pink salmon could be delivered, too – all taken during periods when native communities were licensed to fish for food, social and ceremonial (FSC) needs.

The Cohen Commission of inquiry into the decline of sockeye salmon in the Fraser River heard last week from DFO enforcement officers, who suggested the FSC fishery is a cover for a lucrative, large-scale black-market operation. They testified that in one investigation they found 345,000 FSC salmon stored in industrial freezers, and that they believed 97 per cent of all FSC fish are sold illegally into the market, not distributed to native people, as intended.

“Most of the first-nations people … we deal with, by far the majority of them, are good people and sometimes those people get led astray. But there is a core group of people out there that simply are in it for themselves,” testified Scott Coultish, regional chief of intelligence and investigation services for DFO.

What the Cohen Commission didn’t hear was any testimony about the meeting between the agents and the “king” of the Fraser River native fishery. Phil Eidsvik, a non-lawyer who is at the hearings representing the BC Fisheries Survival Coalition and the Area D Salmon Gillnet Association, tried to get the transcript entered as evidence, but it was ruled out after a lawyer for a native coalition objected to its relevance.

The transcript, leaked to Mr. Eidsvik by a source he won’t identify, was made in 1989.

It is old, but one of the agents involved in that operation said in an e-mail to The Globe and Mail last week that it remains relevant today, because it gives an inside look at the illegal trade in food fish.

“What kind of chinook volume are we talking about?” one of the agents asked the king, after getting a commitment on sockeye.

“Ah, I would think that around here more than about 20 tonnes,” he said.

Pinks?

“I could probably get about 100,000 pounds pretty easy, “ he said.

The agent said he was interested in chum salmon, too, with fresh eggs, which had high value in the Japanese market.

“No problem with that as long as the price is right,” the king said.

“Do you think maybe … 300,000 pounds total on the chum?” the agent asked.

“Yeah, I think I’ve handled that much before,” he replied.

“Any problem if the payment is only in cash?”

“No, no, that’s, that’s the way I like it,” the king said.

In total he had just offered to supply the buyers with 590,000 pounds of native food fish.

Gail Sparrow, former chief of the Musqueam band, recently complained that many people on her reserve didn’t get their allocation of fish last year, even though 800,000 sockeye were harvested in the Fraser FSC fishery, because, on her reserve at least, most the salmon were taken off reserve by fishermen who illegally sold them.

It is probable the Musqueam fish went to a big dealer, like the king of the Fraser River, who was never charged in 1989, despite the damning nature of the comments he made on tape.

Why was the king never busted?

“We went with the tapes to the Department of Justice and they wouldn’t proceed because of a recent ruling by the Supreme Court, which forbid covert tapes where a police officer was present unless the suspect was aware of the tape being made,” said the former DFO agent. “We also tried to go through the justice system in the USA, but they felt that it was a Canadian problem.”

The Cohen Commission heard that the DFO investigation that found 345,000 FSC salmon in cold storage didn’t go anywhere, because enforcement couldn’t get funding to track the salmon after it left the freezer.

So we don’t know where those fish went. But maybe the king does. Apparently he’s still operating.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle2031554/
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Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck
I wasn't thinking far enough ahead for an outcome, I was ranting. By definition, a rant doesn't imply much forethought.....
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  #42  
Old 04-18-2019, 06:52 PM
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Ditto half breed, back in the 70s it was an amazing fishery. I was watching some people there a few years back and they say it is a sad joke now.
It is. There is no more fish. Sad I think for everyman, not just the red skinned.
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  #43  
Old 04-19-2019, 09:44 AM
Scott h Scott h is offline
 
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It is. There is no more fish. Sad I think for everyman, not just the red skinned.
It doesn't have to stay the way it is. I volenteered with a small group of guys that wrap pilings and hang small nets for the remaining herring to spawn on. The herring for many years have spawned on coated creosote pilings (most of the eel grass has been dredged) and the eggs just die from the oil they are touching. By wrapping the piling the eggs never touch the creosote and so they hatch out. Same goes with hanging old recycled netting. They are hung off the dock and then raise and lower with the tide. So far it's been done at the Squamish terminals and False creek with pretty dam good results. Ever wonder why there have been more whale and porpoise sightings the last few years in Howe sound????
Funny, but if you want salmon you have to have feed for them.
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  #44  
Old 04-20-2019, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by IronNoggin View Post
Close.

Overall abundance was / is calculated by the combined efforts of US and Canada. From that a series of calculations (which were designed to be conservative in nature) determines what is available for each country. Up to the countries to then distribute, in our case, via DFO.

Commercial catch is / was set by quota based upon certain percentages of the overall abundance figures. For the past decade and change, those percentages have been reduced every single year.

FN harvest has climbed at the same time as the commercial rate dropped. Most believe they have climbed faster than the reduction of the commercial quotas, something I believe as fact. In addition, FN's were granted a series of racially segregated commercial fisheries, both offshore and in the rivers. That of course gobbled up huge amounts of quota which the department hungrily scrambled to strip away from any source they could.

Recreational access has steadily climbed over that same time period. The initial fixed rate was recognized as insufficient better than a decade ago, and has steadily climbed every year since. Last year's supposed "cap" was in the neighborhood of 120,000 - 140.000 Chinook. In fact, that harvest was over 230,000. In the case of this sector, and the FN's, there has been no real way to actively monitor and / or curtail fishing activities once target numbers were reached. That, for the recreational fleet, just changed dramatically.

In the current quagmire of operations under the newly announced restrictions, the commercial catch will be much more than halved (realistically approaching one quarter of previous years or less), the recreational harvest will be reduced less than half overall, and FN's (on paper) will realize slight reductions. Already many of the latter's leaders have noted they will not comply.

Again, this really should not be a peeing contest as to who takes what. That is exactly what the department wants - to keep us from forming a united front. I am involved in efforts to do just that, and I am going to continue. Be great if others can find a way to climb on board for the benefit of not only ourselves, but more importantly, the overall well being of the resource.

Cheers,
Nog - Retired Marine Biologist
The significant poaching being done by those using multiple printed copies of licenses surely doesn’t get counted either.

Also the commercial gill netting at rivers mouths decimates genetic diversity and harms all runs.

Shot gun starts forces commercial fishermen to kill everything as fast as possible.
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  #45  
Old 04-20-2019, 10:48 AM
danvan danvan is offline
 
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So here we have a group of guys from a Province that's wants to cut off our oil complaining about fishing on our coast and talking about poaching I know all those Alberta plated 1/2 tons with freezers in the back are just running back and forth from Rupert empty
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  #46  
Old 04-20-2019, 11:47 AM
IronNoggin IronNoggin is offline
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Decent Summary of the where & why:

Pacific Angler Report (Copied)
Vancouver Saltwater Salmon Fishing Report

Well it’s official. The DFO and Fisheries Minister have made it non-retention for chinook salmon on the south coast. They just shut down some of the best fishing I have ever seen in our local waters and what is very likely the best fishing on the entire coast right now. That’s just our area. Let’s not forget about the iconic sport fishing communities on the Island like Tofino, Ucluelet, Bamfield, Campbell River, Renfrew, and Victoria, just to name a few. The result is thousands of people are going to lose their jobs and it is going to cost this province hundreds of millions of dollars.

So how did we get here? Well it’s a complicated scenario and the road to this closure has a lot of ups and downs and twists and turns, but it goes something like this. Chinook stocks are diverse. Some come from the Fraser, some from rivers that empty directly into the ocean, some spend 2 years in the freshwater before they leave to the ocean, others out migrate right away, some spend their ocean life in local waters, some go way offshore. So, as you can imagine, some stocks might be suffering while others are doing very well. Large blanket closures are an ineffective way to manage such a diverse resource.

Enter interior Fraser chinook. These fish spawn in the interior tributaries to the Fraser, and they hang out in these rivers for 2 years before out-migrating. To say things are not going well up there is an understatement; less water, long hot summers, warm water, forest fires, siltation, are just a few of the issues these fish have to face for 2 years. The end result is the survival rate is extremely low. The few that do make it after 2 years then have to make it past the seals as they leave the Fraser. Of all the out migrating salmonids, these 2 year old chinook smolts are some of the biggest, only second to steelhead smolts. As a result, the seals focus on them, as they do steelhead smolts. As many as 47% of them are consumed by seals. The few that make it then head offshore to feed and return 2 years later. In general, they come back around the south end of Vancouver Island and into the south arm of the Fraser, returning in the months of April, May, June, and July. There is no doubt these fish need to be protected and we are all for that. Sport fishing regulations have been in place to do so for many years, so much so that our exploitation rate for these fish is either at 0% or so small that it is negligible.

So, what about all these fish off South Bowen right now and over in Nanaimo and Gabriola? Well these are not the fish I just described above. DFO has a lot of DNA data that shows what fish we are catching, that is how we can be so certain. This is a scientific fact, not speculation. The fish we are we catching in these areas are from a variety of rivers where things are not as dire as the conditions seen in the interior of the province. The chinook stocks from these systems are stable, and in some cases are at or near record returns. There is no conservation concern for these stocks and a 2 per day limit is sustainable. A 1 per day limit is certainly sustainable and acceptable from a scientific fisheries management viewpoint. If you have been fishing these past 2 weeks you know how many fish are out there.

Then why did we get shut down? This is the question you should be asking and I am going to tell you the politics behind it. The reality is this. The interior Fraser chinook need protection. Sport fishing regulations have been in place to do so for many years as noted earlier, and commercial troll opportunities for these fish have been reduced heavily in the past and this year are non-existent. The last piece of the puzzle is First Nations in river fisheries for these same fish. You can’t carve any more meat off the bone from the recreational or commercial fleet, the rest has to come from First Nations in river fisheries. This isn’t me speaking; this is the DFO science that was presented in a variety of meetings and forums.

The only way to put more of these fish on the spawning beds is to stop in river netting of these fish. Hence the recent closures and reduced opportunities for First Nations over the coming months as per the announcement yesterday. I hope you are connecting the dots here and asking yourself this question. So why is a sustainable fishery like we see off South Bowen, for non-interior Fraser chinook, which are experiencing good to excellent survival rates, closed? You should also be asking yourself why this fishery is closed when it has absolutely nothing to do with these interior Fraser chinook. Well we asked these very questions to the Minister and DFO these past few days. The answer we received was this. Despite the fact our current local chinook fisheries have no impact on these interior Fraser chinook, they have to close the recreational fleet on a grandiose scale so they can reduce First Nation in river harvesting opportunities for interior Fraser chinook.

We pointed to their science that shows we aren’t catching those fish and asked if we could have 1 a day, the answer was no. We asked if we could keep a hatchery only, which has absolutely 0 effect on Fraser fish as these fish are from the USA, the answer was no. In short, the answer is the recreational fleet has to be closed first, and then they can take fisheries measures for First Nations second. That precedent was set in a case that is often referred to as the Tommy Case. Let me make this clear. If there is a conservation concern, I will be the first to put the rods away, and if anyone has a right to the first harvest of those fish, I agree it should be First Nations for ceremonial and food fish purposes. I get that if we are fishing for the same fish. What I don't agree with and what I don't get, is the DFO shutting down one distinct fishery and user group so they can shut down another user group on totally different fish. This is ludicrous and political, this is not scientific, and this is mismanagement of the resource at the highest level. So, I think it is important that we are all very clear that this Minister just shut down the entire south coast so they can attempt to reduce First Nation in river impacts on interior Fraser chinook.

On our home waters that means they just shut down South Bowen, Thrasher, Nanaimo, which are all experiencing amazing fishing (for non-interior Fraser stocks), just to have the opportunity to keep First Nations nets out of the Fraser to save interior Fraser stocks. You can see my frustration. Unfortunately, I don't think it is going to do much to help these fish. DFO needs emergency hatchery production for these fish, the habitat needs some help, and we need to deal with the seals. None of that is happening anytime soon from what I can see. Since the DFO has sacrificed the whole south coast, I hope they plan on making sure the Fraser is net free until July 14. I hope fisheries like this have now been closed 2019 Open Times for the Mid & Upper Fraser River First Nations Fisheries - Week 16. I will give the DFO the benefit of the doubt on this one and assume that is the case; I certainly hope so for the fish. In the meantime, diverse and sustainable recreational fisheries remain closed and the south coast marine fishery and economy has been cut off at the knees.

If you think this management strategy is unacceptable, you need to let DFO know. Send an email to these people and let them know this is not acceptable. Let them know how it is affecting you and let them know how you are going to vote next election.

Hon Jonathan Wilkinson Minister Jonathan.Wilkinson@parl.gc.ca

Rebecca Reid, DFO Regional Director General, Pacific Region Rebecca.Reid@dfo-mpo.gc.ca
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  #47  
Old 04-20-2019, 12:05 PM
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It doesn't have to stay the way it is. I volenteered with a small group of guys that wrap pilings and hang small nets for the remaining herring to spawn on. The herring for many years have spawned on coated creosote pilings (most of the eel grass has been dredged) and the eggs just die from the oil they are touching. By wrapping the piling the eggs never touch the creosote and so they hatch out. Same goes with hanging old recycled netting. They are hung off the dock and then raise and lower with the tide. So far it's been done at the Squamish terminals and False creek with pretty dam good results. Ever wonder why there have been more whale and porpoise sightings the last few years in Howe sound????
Funny, but if you want salmon you have to have feed for them.
This is very forward thinking. I'll have to peruse YouTube to see if there is any video of this practice. I don't know when I'll next head out to the coast but would definitely spend some time doing some of this, as well as passing on to friends that live there. What prevents the removal of said habitat? I would imagine 4Ocean and such would destroy this in their 'clean up' efforts.
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  #48  
Old 04-20-2019, 12:46 PM
Scott h Scott h is offline
 
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This is very forward thinking. I'll have to peruse YouTube to see if there is any video of this practice. I don't know when I'll next head out to the coast but would definitely spend some time doing some of this, as well as passing on to friends that live there. What prevents the removal of said habitat? I would imagine 4Ocean and such would destroy this in their 'clean up' efforts.
https://globalnews.ca/video/5021668/...to-see-results

So far it's been done successfully at Squamish and False Creek. Super cheap and easy to do, it just takes a few willing hands.
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  #49  
Old 04-20-2019, 01:21 PM
Scott h Scott h is offline
 
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Originally Posted by IronNoggin View Post
Decent Summary of the where & why:

Pacific Angler Report (Copied)
Vancouver Saltwater Salmon Fishing Report

Well it’s official. The DFO and Fisheries Minister have made it non-retention for chinook salmon on the south coast. They just shut down some of the best fishing I have ever seen in our local waters and what is very likely the best fishing on the entire coast right now. That’s just our area. Let’s not forget about the iconic sport fishing communities on the Island like Tofino, Ucluelet, Bamfield, Campbell River, Renfrew, and Victoria, just to name a few. The result is thousands of people are going to lose their jobs and it is going to cost this province hundreds of millions of dollars.

So how did we get here? Well it’s a complicated scenario and the road to this closure has a lot of ups and downs and twists and turns, but it goes something like this. Chinook stocks are diverse. Some come from the Fraser, some from rivers that empty directly into the ocean, some spend 2 years in the freshwater before they leave to the ocean, others out migrate right away, some spend their ocean life in local waters, some go way offshore. So, as you can imagine, some stocks might be suffering while others are doing very well. Large blanket closures are an ineffective way to manage such a diverse resource.

Enter interior Fraser chinook. These fish spawn in the interior tributaries to the Fraser, and they hang out in these rivers for 2 years before out-migrating. To say things are not going well up there is an understatement; less water, long hot summers, warm water, forest fires, siltation, are just a few of the issues these fish have to face for 2 years. The end result is the survival rate is extremely low. The few that do make it after 2 years then have to make it past the seals as they leave the Fraser. Of all the out migrating salmonids, these 2 year old chinook smolts are some of the biggest, only second to steelhead smolts. As a result, the seals focus on them, as they do steelhead smolts. As many as 47% of them are consumed by seals. The few that make it then head offshore to feed and return 2 years later. In general, they come back around the south end of Vancouver Island and into the south arm of the Fraser, returning in the months of April, May, June, and July. There is no doubt these fish need to be protected and we are all for that. Sport fishing regulations have been in place to do so for many years, so much so that our exploitation rate for these fish is either at 0% or so small that it is negligible.

So, what about all these fish off South Bowen right now and over in Nanaimo and Gabriola? Well these are not the fish I just described above. DFO has a lot of DNA data that shows what fish we are catching, that is how we can be so certain. This is a scientific fact, not speculation. The fish we are we catching in these areas are from a variety of rivers where things are not as dire as the conditions seen in the interior of the province. The chinook stocks from these systems are stable, and in some cases are at or near record returns. There is no conservation concern for these stocks and a 2 per day limit is sustainable. A 1 per day limit is certainly sustainable and acceptable from a scientific fisheries management viewpoint. If you have been fishing these past 2 weeks you know how many fish are out there.

Then why did we get shut down? This is the question you should be asking and I am going to tell you the politics behind it. The reality is this. The interior Fraser chinook need protection. Sport fishing regulations have been in place to do so for many years as noted earlier, and commercial troll opportunities for these fish have been reduced heavily in the past and this year are non-existent. The last piece of the puzzle is First Nations in river fisheries for these same fish. You can’t carve any more meat off the bone from the recreational or commercial fleet, the rest has to come from First Nations in river fisheries. This isn’t me speaking; this is the DFO science that was presented in a variety of meetings and forums.

The only way to put more of these fish on the spawning beds is to stop in river netting of these fish. Hence the recent closures and reduced opportunities for First Nations over the coming months as per the announcement yesterday. I hope you are connecting the dots here and asking yourself this question. So why is a sustainable fishery like we see off South Bowen, for non-interior Fraser chinook, which are experiencing good to excellent survival rates, closed? You should also be asking yourself why this fishery is closed when it has absolutely nothing to do with these interior Fraser chinook. Well we asked these very questions to the Minister and DFO these past few days. The answer we received was this. Despite the fact our current local chinook fisheries have no impact on these interior Fraser chinook, they have to close the recreational fleet on a grandiose scale so they can reduce First Nation in river harvesting opportunities for interior Fraser chinook.

We pointed to their science that shows we aren’t catching those fish and asked if we could have 1 a day, the answer was no. We asked if we could keep a hatchery only, which has absolutely 0 effect on Fraser fish as these fish are from the USA, the answer was no. In short, the answer is the recreational fleet has to be closed first, and then they can take fisheries measures for First Nations second. That precedent was set in a case that is often referred to as the Tommy Case. Let me make this clear. If there is a conservation concern, I will be the first to put the rods away, and if anyone has a right to the first harvest of those fish, I agree it should be First Nations for ceremonial and food fish purposes. I get that if we are fishing for the same fish. What I don't agree with and what I don't get, is the DFO shutting down one distinct fishery and user group so they can shut down another user group on totally different fish. This is ludicrous and political, this is not scientific, and this is mismanagement of the resource at the highest level. So, I think it is important that we are all very clear that this Minister just shut down the entire south coast so they can attempt to reduce First Nation in river impacts on interior Fraser chinook.

On our home waters that means they just shut down South Bowen, Thrasher, Nanaimo, which are all experiencing amazing fishing (for non-interior Fraser stocks), just to have the opportunity to keep First Nations nets out of the Fraser to save interior Fraser stocks. You can see my frustration. Unfortunately, I don't think it is going to do much to help these fish. DFO needs emergency hatchery production for these fish, the habitat needs some help, and we need to deal with the seals. None of that is happening anytime soon from what I can see. Since the DFO has sacrificed the whole south coast, I hope they plan on making sure the Fraser is net free until July 14. I hope fisheries like this have now been closed 2019 Open Times for the Mid & Upper Fraser River First Nations Fisheries - Week 16. I will give the DFO the benefit of the doubt on this one and assume that is the case; I certainly hope so for the fish. In the meantime, diverse and sustainable recreational fisheries remain closed and the south coast marine fishery and economy has been cut off at the knees.

If you think this management strategy is unacceptable, you need to let DFO know. Send an email to these people and let them know this is not acceptable. Let them know how it is affecting you and let them know how you are going to vote next election.

Hon Jonathan Wilkinson Minister Jonathan.Wilkinson@parl.gc.ca

Rebecca Reid, DFO Regional Director General, Pacific Region Rebecca.Reid@dfo-mpo.gc.ca
Well written and concise.
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Old 04-20-2019, 02:56 PM
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So here we have a group of guys from a Province that's wants to cut off our oil complaining about fishing on our coast and talking about poaching I know all those Alberta plated 1/2 tons with freezers in the back are just running back and forth from Rupert empty
We just want to twin a pipeline
so you guys and us can benefit. And I need a black 1 ton Dodge dually to haul back your fish to my province, so cheaper diesel out there would be a treat for me too. 1/2 ton? Please.
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Old 04-20-2019, 05:09 PM
danvan danvan is offline
 
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Believe me I am all for the pipeline it makes me sick every time I see a train with about a hundred black tank cars running along the Skeena river it's only a mater of time till one of them ends up in the river. I spend a lot of time on the north coast for work and B.C. residents are as bad as any one I fish and I keep What we can eat on the boat but that's about it if I was looking for meat it's way cheaper to go to Safeway.
I hope we get the pipe line it is good for both provinces .

Last edited by Pixel Shooter; 04-20-2019 at 06:47 PM.
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Old 04-20-2019, 05:38 PM
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I'm glad you feel that way about poachers danvan- good attitude. The rail deal notley's crue set up is bad for everyone. We are rethinking our travel plans this year because of the restrictions, not so much because of politics but if the resource needs a break we should all do our part. I want to retire back out there in 2-3 years max and I'd like to catch a salmon or two then. Red Rock / Nipigon for big ass Brookies is a calling right now.
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  #53  
Old 04-20-2019, 10:40 PM
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So here we have a group of guys from a Province that's wants to cut off our oil complaining about fishing on our coast and talking about poaching I know all those Alberta plated 1/2 tons with freezers in the back are just running back and forth from Rupert empty
Happy to hear you understand the plight of Albertans. You seem to confirm you understand the facts...the coast is national waters. From the high water mark to the open ocean belongs to all Canadians. It does not belong to BC.

So yes. As an Albertan I want to protect the coast and keep it open for recreational opportunities.

And yes...poaching is bad and as such you must hate that also.

And no... Nobody in Alberta wants to shut off the flow of energy to B.C. We have done nothing to harm the folks in Vancouver that are pushing this agenda off breaching confederation and our right to sell our products to the offshore market. It is not Albertans that have fallen for the false hype of foreign paid economic sabotage.

However we will do what is needed to help our economy. The energy is needed to save lives, create jobs, provide cheap energy and create wealth for all of Canada.

It is what funds many social programs. It funds the bulk of transfer payments to the have not provinces.

Alas. Let’s hope for positive change.
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Old 04-21-2019, 02:02 PM
IronNoggin IronNoggin is offline
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Old 04-23-2019, 02:20 PM
IronNoggin IronNoggin is offline
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The Federal government caved into demands from FN's that all others be swept from the water and so used both the recreational and commercial sectors as negotiating points to service that particular form of blackmail. In Area G's May fishery, interception of Canadian Origin fish has been proven over decades to consist of less than one percent - and exponentially lower than that in the case of Fraser stocks of concern. The same can be said for many of the recreational fisheries. The largest and most continuous removals of these threatened / endangered stocks are via the in-river FN fisheries.
Paying the blackmail by forcing thousands off the water will do nothing to improve the fishery for the FN's nor anyone else.
The government understood that when it proceeded.
The FN's did as well, and now some are publicly stating they will not comply.

This was / is not a case of adhering to nor addressing conservation, it is rather a case of paying blackmail to one sector at the cost of all others. Period.

Here's a close analogy:

YOU are sitting at your desk one day, when in walks a fed or two. Clear out your desk, you are leaving and you may not come back. When you demand to know why, the answer is "a select group of folks who happen to be more entitled than you (in our opinion) has decided they don't like you nor your employment. No, you really don't effect what they do at all, but we decided to cater to their demands. You are simply collateral damage. Now hurry up and please move along now".

No compensation even considered.

Many of those they are forcing off the water are in their 60's or more, and as such do not represent "good candidates" for retraining or re-entry into the work force.
Again, the government is completely aware of that.
Again they could give a rat's ass regarding whose lives, families and communities they put in jeopardy.
And for that, I fully intend to ensure they are held accountable.

For you see, I am one of those affected.
We may well lose our house.
Already relations with my Lady are beyond strained.
Life, as I built it and knew it is basically over.
With one stroke of the government pen.
That will realize no benefit to the resource whatsoever.

But they have given me something they did not count on.
Time.
Time to do whatever I can to ensure the public understands just what the reality of this situation is.
And time to do my damnest to ensure they pay in full at the polls this coming fall.

Extremely Upset,
Matt
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  #56  
Old 04-23-2019, 02:40 PM
Jamie Jamie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IronNoggin View Post
The Federal government caved into demands from FN's that all others be swept from the water and so used both the recreational and commercial sectors as negotiating points to service that particular form of blackmail. In Area G's May fishery, interception of Canadian Origin fish has been proven over decades to consist of less than one percent - and exponentially lower than that in the case of Fraser stocks of concern. The same can be said for many of the recreational fisheries. The largest and most continuous removals of these threatened / endangered stocks are via the in-river FN fisheries.
Paying the blackmail by forcing thousands off the water will do nothing to improve the fishery for the FN's nor anyone else.
The government understood that when it proceeded.
The FN's did as well, and now some are publicly stating they will not comply.

This was / is not a case of adhering to nor addressing conservation, it is rather a case of paying blackmail to one sector at the cost of all others. Period.


Here's a close analogy:

YOU are sitting at your desk one day, when in walks a fed or two. Clear out your desk, you are leaving and you may not come back. When you demand to know why, the answer is "a select group of folks who happen to be more entitled than you (in our opinion) has decided they don't like you nor your employment. No, you really don't effect what they do at all, but we decided to cater to their demands. You are simply collateral damage. Now hurry up and please move along now".

No compensation even considered.

Many of those they are forcing off the water are in their 60's or more, and as such do not represent "good candidates" for retraining or re-entry into the work force.
Again, the government is completely aware of that.
Again they could give a rat's ass regarding whose lives, families and communities they put in jeopardy.
And for that, I fully intend to ensure they are held accountable.

For you see, I am one of those affected.
We may well lose our house.
Already relations with my Lady are beyond strained.
Life, as I built it and knew it is basically over.
With one stroke of the government pen.
That will realize no benefit to the resource whatsoever.

But they have given me something they did not count on.
Time.
Time to do whatever I can to ensure the public understands just what the reality of this situation is.
And time to do my damnest to ensure they pay in full at the polls this coming fall.

Extremely Upset,
Matt
Sorry Matt. I do hope you find a way through this travesty. Grab your gear and head north?
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Old 04-23-2019, 05:58 PM
ReconWilly ReconWilly is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IronNoggin View Post
The Federal government caved into demands from FN's that all others be swept from the water and so used both the recreational and commercial sectors as negotiating points to service that particular form of blackmail. In Area G's May fishery, interception of Canadian Origin fish has been proven over decades to consist of less than one percent - and exponentially lower than that in the case of Fraser stocks of concern. The same can be said for many of the recreational fisheries. The largest and most continuous removals of these threatened / endangered stocks are via the in-river FN fisheries.
Paying the blackmail by forcing thousands off the water will do nothing to improve the fishery for the FN's nor anyone else.
The government understood that when it proceeded.
The FN's did as well, and now some are publicly stating they will not comply.

This was / is not a case of adhering to nor addressing conservation, it is rather a case of paying blackmail to one sector at the cost of all others. Period.

Here's a close analogy:

YOU are sitting at your desk one day, when in walks a fed or two. Clear out your desk, you are leaving and you may not come back. When you demand to know why, the answer is "a select group of folks who happen to be more entitled than you (in our opinion) has decided they don't like you nor your employment. No, you really don't effect what they do at all, but we decided to cater to their demands. You are simply collateral damage. Now hurry up and please move along now".

No compensation even considered.

Many of those they are forcing off the water are in their 60's or more, and as such do not represent "good candidates" for retraining or re-entry into the work force.
Again, the government is completely aware of that.
Again they could give a rat's ass regarding whose lives, families and communities they put in jeopardy.
And for that, I fully intend to ensure they are held accountable.

For you see, I am one of those affected.
We may well lose our house.
Already relations with my Lady are beyond strained.
Life, as I built it and knew it is basically over.
With one stroke of the government pen.
That will realize no benefit to the resource whatsoever.

But they have given me something they did not count on.
Time.
Time to do whatever I can to ensure the public understands just what the reality of this situation is.
And time to do my damnest to ensure they pay in full at the polls this coming fall.

Extremely Upset,
Matt
It's time for a new Canadian charter of rights that ensures equal rights for all Canadian's and special rights for no Canadian's.period.

No exceptions.

Nothing else can save this country.

It will NEVER happen.
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Old 04-24-2019, 01:57 PM
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I have heard from a reliable source that there will be a seal / sea lion harvest finalized and coming soon when all details completed. Very much needed and should help the fish stocks ( all fish ) start to recover.
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  #59  
Old 04-24-2019, 02:04 PM
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Stinky Buffalo Stinky Buffalo is offline
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I have heard from a reliable source that there will be a seal / sea lion harvest finalized and coming soon when all details completed. Very much needed and should help the fish stocks ( all fish ) start to recover.
Looks like an opportunity for West coast restaurants to put some creative entree choices in their menu...
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Old 04-24-2019, 08:13 PM
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Dog food.
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