Genesee Range Renovations

[sns2]

Does anyone know if the shooting bences and shelter renovations at Genesee are complete?

[horse_men]

2 weeks ago there was nothing there but the concrete pads, no benches or roof left. Haven't been back since so I don't know if anything has been rebuilt.

I didn't know they were doing reno's so I was a bit choked when I got out there! I don't get the email news letters for some reason so I am out of the loop.

[gorf]

There is 10 new benches with adjustable seats . another 11 are ready to go.As for the reno we are waiting for an engineer report to be able to apply for building permit.

Thanks Gorf. A buddy said the range is closed for the week is that true? Any idea for what reason? I remember you mentioning the engineer evaluation but never heard back . Thought it was all taken care of but it is still outstanding?

For the Month of July

Due to the sudden unfortunate closure of the Spruce Grove Range, we will be doing our best to assist by accommodating some of the scheduled events & booked third party range use dates originally planned for the Spruce Grove Range. I'm sure I speak for all of us when I say we are hoping it will be a short & temporary closure. Please be as patient, courteous & friendly as all our members are well know to be while we share our range for these events. It is important that we all pull together & support each other when faced with this sort of adversity, A strong demonstration of solidarity among our sporting community is very necessary at times like this. Remember the same thing could happen to the C.H.A.S. Genesee Range or any other range at any time. Thank you for helping us support our fellow shooting sports members in their time of need,


President

Wow............

This seems unfair to the general membership. These corporate groups should hopefully be payng corporate rates with mandetory "paid" supervision since their rapid fire practices are likely more dangerous to the public and survival of the range. I wonder if these corporate groups particate in range cleanups and fund raisers. I might be wrong but I think clubs are shooting themselves in the foot when bending over backward to support corporations and other entities. What support do they provide to the clubs such as spruce grove when the club is shut down? Today its the bottom $ that seems to matter and those with the most $$$ are best off. Any positive suggestions?

The chas site looks very nice.



http://m.chasclub.com/site/mobile?dm...etwork=fw#3203




Just popped over ....

[hillbillyreefer]

Charge the heck out of them. The range I belong to gathers volunteers for corporate shoots, we don't have too many, we supervise them shooting, cook some burgers and send them the bill, seems to work well. Everyone has a good time including the volunteers and the range makes a few dollars for improvements and maintenance.

[1Heavyhitr]

Originally Posted by Precisionshooter

For the Month of July

Due to the sudden unfortunate closure of the Spruce Grove Range, we will be doing our best to assist by accommodating some of the scheduled events & booked third party range use dates originally planned for the Spruce Grove Range. I'm sure I speak for all of us when I say we are hoping it will be a short & temporary closure. Please be as patient, courteous & friendly as all our members are well know to be while we share our range for these events. It is important that we all pull together & support each other when faced with this sort of adversity, A strong demonstration of solidarity among our sporting community is very necessary at times like this. Remember the same thing could happen to the C.H.A.S. Genesee Range or any other range at any time. Thank you for helping us support our fellow shooting sports members in their time of need,


President

So is the range closed for renovations AND spruce grove range dates? If it's Closed just to accommodate spruce groves events, I think that's completely unfair to the genesee members. It's not like those events go from Sunday to Sunday every week in July.

[purgatory.sv]

BURN THE WITCH!!!!

No I don’t mean it; I hope intent and membership can prevail.

The society owns the property they just need direction?

[petew]

Originally Posted by Precisionshooter

This seems unfair to the general membership. These corporate groups should hopefully be payng corporate rates with mandetory "paid" supervision since their rapid fire practices are likely more dangerous to the public and survival of the range. I wonder if these corporate groups particate in range cleanups and fund raisers. I might be wrong but I think clubs are shooting themselves in the foot when bending over backward to support corporations and other entities. What support do they provide to the clubs such as spruce grove when the club is shut down? Today its the bottom $ that seems to matter and those with the most $$$ are best off. Any positive suggestions?

The police forces and such should be using Government ranges, and not tieing up private ranges for next to nothing in costs. They are government agencies, and the Government needs to step up to the plate and provide their forces with proper training facilities. It is very unfair to the range members to have to sit out while their ranges are monopolized .
It is bad enough to have a range virtualy taken over by the police, but it is even worse when private, for profit corporations like Brinks can monopolize the range at the expense of the membership.
The huge volume of rapid fire shooting they do certainly is a major contributor to the public complaints on noise and safety. When it sounds like a war zone people react negatively and complain.

The other operating ranges need to send these free loaders packing to a Government facility.

[purgatory.sv]

Wow good feed back.
I believe in most or your comments.
The range belongs to the members.
If it is rented out make them pay.
Show all how much they pay, don’t make it hidden.

Now who controls the direction of the club or society?

I do not participate in this club.

Originally Posted by petew

The police forces and such should be using Government ranges, and not tieing up private ranges for next to nothing in costs. They are government agencies, and the Government needs to step up to the plate and provide their forces with proper training facilities. It is very unfair to the range members to have to sit out while their ranges are monopolized .
It is bad enough to have a range virtualy taken over by the police, but it is even worse when private, for profit corporations like Brinks can monopolize the range at the expense of the membership.
The huge volume of rapid fire shooting they do certainly is a major contributor to the public complaints on noise and safety. When it sounds like a war zone people react negatively and complain.

The other operating ranges need to send these free loaders packing to a Government facility.

I think the rental rates need to be commensurate with the risk and negative perception the range receives from the public. This is Alberta and rental rates need to go up. Ranges are expensive and it is hard to find volunteers. All the constant upgrades......cameras....berms....etc. etc. Inconveniences to the regular membership.

[Gboe8]

I used to belong to CHAS. No longer. Why on earth should cops and security guards, who contributed to the closure, temporary or otherwise, push out / inconvenience members? Seems asinine. Completely asinine. But I guess, that type of decision making is why I and many others left, and are going to leave. It really doesn't matter though, as the longtime members will be instantly replaced.

Still no excuse for poor management and secretive decision making. I may get flamed for my comments, but I know they are reflective of the feeling of many, many members.

Undoubtedly, people will rant about attending meetings and voicing one's thoughts. My reply is it's 2014, learn to use a e-poll. We do it in this forum, it can be just as easily used to gain simple feedback from membership concerning decisions that affect the club.

[nekred]

Originally Posted by petew

The police forces and such should be using Government ranges, and not tieing up private ranges for next to nothing in costs. They are government agencies, and the Government needs to step up to the plate and provide their forces with proper training facilities. It is very unfair to the range members to have to sit out while their ranges are monopolized .
It is bad enough to have a range virtualy taken over by the police, but it is even worse when private, for profit corporations like Brinks can monopolize the range at the expense of the membership.
The huge volume of rapid fire shooting they do certainly is a major contributor to the public complaints on noise and safety. When it sounds like a war zone people react negatively and complain.

The other operating ranges need to send these free loaders packing to a Government facility.

Just to add to your post Pete,

Maybe if the government had to setup their own approved government ranges and had to deal with the public pressure, the CFO who is in charge of certifying ranges maybe they would understand appreciatte more what range volunteer people go through.

Now on the other hand maybe ranges need to spin this the other way. When dealing with the public the clubs need to get more media savvy and start naming the various police forces and security forces that utilise the range in order to be able to protect the public better.

It is on thing to be a NIMBY person but it is another to move into an area into someone elses back yard and then complain about the activity and start going all NIMBY when you chose to have that in you backyard in the first place.

We have someone complaining about aircraft noise and helicopters in particular being STARS and EPS helicopters.... but WTF you chose live near an airport!....

[260 Rem]

LE Range use does not need to be a negative if managed within the context of a "members first" framework. SPFGA has agreements covering an estimated 300 LE. LE is permitted to book the "exclusive use" of one range only ....weekdays only...during business hours only. This use leaves a similar function range open to members so no one ever gets shut out. The club does not rent to private contractors. In 2013, The LE agreements brought in about $20,000.00.

[1Heavyhitr]

Originally Posted by 260 Rem

LE Range use does not need to be a negative if managed within the context of a "members first" framework. SPFGA has agreements covering an estimated 300 LE. LE is permitted to book the "exclusive use" of one range only ....weekdays only...during business hours only. This use leaves a similar function range open to members so no one ever gets shut out. The club does not rent to private contractors. In 2013, The LE agreements brought in about $20,000.00.

This is exactly my point! As a Genesee member I think it's complete BS

Originally Posted by 260 Rem

LE Range use does not need to be a negative if managed within the context of a "members first" framework. SPFGA has agreements covering an estimated 300 LE. LE is permitted to book the "exclusive use" of one range only ....weekdays only...during business hours only. This use leaves a similar function range open to members so no one ever gets shut out. The club does not rent to private contractors. In 2013, The LE agreements brought in about $20,000.00.

Without seeing the numbers it sounds like a steal and likely could be higher.

[springfisher]

Originally Posted by Gboe8

I used to belong to CHAS. No longer. Why on earth should cops and security guards, who contributed to the closure, temporary or otherwise, push out / inconvenience members? Seems asinine. Completely asinine. But I guess, that type of decision making is why I and many others left, and are going to leave. It really doesn't matter though, as the longtime members will be instantly replaced.

Still no excuse for poor management and secretive decision making. I may get flamed for my comments, but I know they are reflective of the feeling of many, many members.

Undoubtedly, people will rant about attending meetings and voicing one's thoughts. My reply is it's 2014, learn to use a e-poll. We do it in this forum, it can be just as easily used to gain simple feedback from membership concerning decisions that affect the club.

I would love to see a poll on how most of the members feel at CHAS. I for one am looking for anywhere else than this range. The management has a GTFO attitude to any that oppose the all mighty decisions that they ram down our throats. I have been a member for 6 years now. This year we lost the benches( bring your own table and chair)nothing over 300 which has been promised for the last 5 years and now last but not least I cant shoot on weekdays due to the range being closed/ used by non members. What did I pay for exactly?
The board of directors needs a change for the better, and they wonder why no one volunteers to help out. Ever been to the Sherwood park f&g range? That is how things should be run, not this micky mouse old boys club that is CHAS

[plmnnkoqaz]

Originally Posted by springfisher

I would love to see a poll on how most of the members feel at CHAS. I for one am looking for anywhere else than this range. The management has a GTFO attitude to any that oppose the all mighty decisions that they ram down our throats. I have been a member for 6 years now. This year we lost the benches( bring your own table and chair)nothing over 300 which has been promised for the last 5 years and now last but not least I cant shoot on weekdays due to the range being closed/ used by non members. What did I pay for exactly?
The board of directors needs a change for the better, and they wonder why no one volunteers to help out. Ever been to the Sherwood park f&g range? That is how things should be run, not this micky mouse old boys club that is CHAS

Maybe you should go to a meeting or two so you can find out what is really going on, or get on the executive and affect change yourself.

[260 Rem]

Originally Posted by Precisionshooter

Without seeing the numbers it sounds like a steal and likely could be higher.

Don't know the exact numbers, but suspect the majority of the 300 are "one time" users (from the two large detachments) that do qualifications only once each year typically over a one week period. Putting the numbers in context, I would guess that LE is paying about 2/3 the rate for an individual range member that has access 364 days/yr. ... and they certainly pay their share of the freight in terms of maintenance costs. Whether really a factor or not, I personally think a price break is conducive to the recipient feeling that access is a privilege.

[hicks]

I have been a long time member of chas. Will not be renewing my membership.

All ready have my new pass for wildwood.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by 260 Rem

Don't know the exact numbers, but suspect the majority of the 300 are "one time" users (from the two large detachments) that do qualifications only once each year typically over a one week period. Putting the numbers in context, I would guess that LE is paying about 2/3 the rate for an individual range member that has access 364 days/yr. ... and they certainly pay their share of the freight in terms of maintenance costs. Whether really a factor or not, I personally think a price break is conducive to the recipient feeling that access is a privilege.

So do you give the LEOs exclusive use of your range for an entire week? We rent them out one handgun bay, and the regular range members still have access to the rest of the bays. When we rent the centerfire range to the LEOs, it is for one day at at time, and it is never on the weekend. If any LEO wants more range time, he must purchase his own membership, and he has no more rights on the range, than any other member. If an LEO shows up at any time other than when his organization has a booking, and he doesn't have a private membership, he is shown the way to the gate. We do rent out our range, on a limited basis to certain LEO organizations, but it is made quite clear, that we manage our range for the benefit of the regular members.

[260 Rem]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

So do you give the LEOs exclusive use of your range for an entire week? We rent them out one handgun bay, and the regular range members still have access to the rest of the bays. When we rent the centerfire range to the LEOs, it is for one day at at time, and it is never on the weekend. If any LEO wants more range time, he must purchase his own membership, and he has no more rights on the range, than any other member. If an LEO shows up at any time other than when his organization has a booking, and he doesn't have a private membership, he is shown the way to the gate. We do rent out our range, on a limited basis to certain LEO organizations, but it is made quite clear, that we manage our range for the benefit of the regular members.

SPFGA has two "ranges" with similar function ... The "Big Bore" range has target boards at 25/100/200/300M, and can not be booked for "exclusive use". The "Overflow" range has target boards at 100/150/200M and is the only range that can be booked by LE for exclusive use ... so even if it was booked for a full week, members still have access to the Big Bore range. Only two small groups of "tactical officers" are permitted to use the Big Bore... And when they do so, it is on a shared basis with members... and only during weekdays when usage is relatively low. LE can not book or shoot on the Handgun, Rimfire, or Shotgun ranges. LE agreements cover use for training purposes only (with service weapons).

[sureshot]

I'm am glad I never renewed my membership. Why pay for something you can't use. This really shows what Chas thinks of it's members. Pretty sad.

[Bobby B.]

I quit Genesee for a variety of reasons. Good thing I did when I did because now I'm a member at SPFG which is an excellent facility intelligently managed by capable people.

The one strong asset that Genesee has is Rod (Gorf). Without him, things at Genesee would be a LOT worse. At the last Genesee meeting I attended, a few of us asked what plans were in place to improve the range. The Board mumbled something about plans. When we asked where the plans were, we were told by the Board that the plans were in their heads. Groooovvvvy! Pretty much sums things up in my books.

Bobby B.

[vcool]

Originally Posted by sureshot

I'm am glad I never renewed my membership. Why pay for something you can't use. This really shows what Chas thinks of it's members. Pretty sad.

Seriously? Never use? I've been out there a few times and have been able to use it....

But I agree with alot of what is being said here. The executive could do a much better job of sending us updates on ... well anything. There are no minutes from the meetings sent out, so the folks who aren't in town, have other commitments, are working, etc have no idea what is going on.

Sure they send out a newsletter but it has very little to do with anything relating to CHAS or the range overall.

Here are the topics of all of the newsletters since Jan.

Stuff Related to CHAS:
• CHAS loses member of our family
• Renewed yet for 2014?
• Calling all County of Leduc members
• Join the 3-gun league!
• Welcome, new members!
• Have an idea for the newsletter?
• Meeting reminder...
• 3-Gun League update

Stuff relating to the range:

• 200 metre range road closed
• 2014 Range event calendar
• Changes from clean-up
• Range rules refresher...
• Upcoming events...
• Please note new range hours


Stuff about specific events:
• Gun show returns!
• 2014 CHAS Expo planning underway
• Special guest announced for upcoming CHAS Expo
• The big event is only a couple weeks away!
• Call for volunteers for CHAS EXPO
• Come one come all to the ZOMBIE SHOOT!
• 2014 Range clean-up: save the date

Other Stuff:
• Canada to expand international weapons sales
• New product review
• Licence renewal system dysfunctional
• Look out for stolen firearms
• Norinco ammo supply coming to end?
• New federal minister completes firearms course
• Ammo recall notice
• Historical firearms
• The American perspective...
• More gun bans: what can you do?
• 2-year amnesty for owners of reclassed rifles
• RCMP ruling on Swiss Arms rifle under fire
• Legal defense insurance available
• Supreme Court to rule on pellet guns
• Product review: Norinco Type 97
• Hunting becoming trendy
• From the archives...
• Convoluted regs cause for concern
• Fallout continues over High River gun grab
• The American perspective...
• Historical firearms...
• The American perspective...
• Colt Canada to start selling ARs to civilian market
• Notice of compliance with CASL
• Why you need an AR15
• Calgary gun store robbed twice in month
• Remington issues massive rifle recall
• The American perspective...

There have also been a couple emails sent out about specific events like a reminder of the range cleanup, the zombie shoot, some 3 gun matches and the gun show/expo. All of this is fine and dandy, but there is a lack of proactive information shared with the membership, which might lead to the limited numbers of volunteers wanting to help out.

The general membership wasn't informed that the benches and roof would be taken down, they were told in the newsletter that at the cleanup they did take them down. No opportunity to show up at the monthly meeting and get info on why/suggest we not do it if we are only informed after the fact. Again, with some apparent range closures happening so LE and whoever else can use the range... I have only found out about it here. No email being sent out saying "hey everyone the ranges will be closed these days and times for LE use." If I go to the website it has that info, but if I drove out there, assuming that a Monday afternoon would be a good time to do some shoosting (yes shoosting), and drove all the way from downtown Edmonton to the range just to find out the range I wanted to use was unavailable, I'd be sour.

What I'm saying is.... we get alot of info from the exec, but rather than copying and pasting info like norinco ammo supply potentially ending, or giving us the "American perspective," or telling us the regs are convoluted (this is news?) hows about we get the minutes of the meetings, or be informed ahead of time what topics are on the meeting agenda, rather than after the fact when something potentially important has already been decided?

[Gboe8]

Interesting.

[sns2]

I didn't start this thread to start a firestorm, I was just working with a member who was wondering if the benches were back up, so I said I'll start a thread.

I left at the same time as Bobby B. We went to the meetings, asked fair questions, and were "discombobulated" at the answers. It was weird really. It was also apparent that questions weren't welcome. We weren't sour, but we did realize that the society was never going to come close to fully utilizing the property for shooters.

Like Bobby B, I can't say enough about how much I appreciate the manner in which SPFGA is run. It really is top notch.

I hope the members of CHAS aren't subjected to the same crap that the members at Spruce Grove were. I serve as an officer on the Board of a large charity. In any decision we make, the question that is asked is, "Does this offer value and improve things for the demographic we serve?" It is my opinion that allowing LE or Brinks to bump shooting time from members who just saw a 50% increase in fees is beyond ludicrous. I support the job our LE members do, but they should have their own range. Period. Brinks? Who gives a rat's rip about them? If I was on the Board, I would simply decline their request. They already have neighbours that complain. Why do they need to invite more complaints and potentially end up in the same pickle as Spruce Grove?

Unless I'm missing something here, it sounds like the Board members are smart like rocks, which is really too bad.