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Old 06-05-2018, 11:18 PM
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fordtruckin fordtruckin is offline
 
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Default Gas Truck Tuning

Looking at buying either a 5.0 or 6.2 Ford truck. I don't need the diesel as much as I would enjoy the extra power it just doesn't fiscally make any sense for me. I realize that gains on tuning a diesel will be more significant but does/has anyone had any luck tuning a gas engine? Are there any programmers to stay away from or is it better to find a shop and get a custom tune instead of something like a Bully Dog or Super Chips programmer? I really haven't done much like this before as most everything now seems to be reprogramming a computer instead of replacing a mechanical component etc..
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Old 06-06-2018, 12:23 AM
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brslk brslk is offline
 
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You're not gonna gain much power from a tune in a gasoline powered truck. They're already tuned to get as much power as they can without going from gas station to gas station.
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Old 06-06-2018, 12:37 AM
Peace Meal Farm Peace Meal Farm is offline
 
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save your cash. tuners will get power out of forced induction, but for a naturally aspirated engine the biggest thing they'll do is change your trans shift points.
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Old 06-06-2018, 06:21 AM
Buckhead Buckhead is offline
 
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I have played around with this a lot.

A cold air intake and headers and a 91 or 93 octane custom tune will get you about 20 ft/lbs of extra torque and 30 extra horsepower at the rear wheels.

It's a big waste of time and money on a gas pickup IMO. All the gains are above 4000 rpm which is not where you need it in a heavy vehicle. They will also raise the trans shift point about 400 rpm so the truck feels a bit faster.

[B]But[B] none of the extra power is in the useable range for a pickup which is 1500 to 3000 rpm.

If you want to go fast then a Mustang GT, Camaro SS or such is in order.
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Old 06-06-2018, 08:22 AM
ChickakooKookoo ChickakooKookoo is offline
 
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If you do go with a tuner, stay away from Bullydog. Have had nothing but problems with mine but then again, mine's for a diesel. I've heard good things about the black maxx and the e-z link, but have no personal experience.
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Old 06-06-2018, 09:56 AM
Sooner Sooner is online now
 
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Been following Ford forums forever on the gas trucks and what to do to tune them. I have been following the V10 crowd as I had a couple and really liked them, looking for one again but the 6.2 has a few benefits like the 6 sp tranny.

What seems to be the similar thoughts, tuners on gas engines are better for the Transmission side, changes the shift patterns, keeps the truck in more of a sweet spot instead of always flopping between gears, which helps Mpg. They say your economy and hp will increase minimal with either a tuner, exhaust & headers, aftermarket throttle bodys.

A few say its the rear gear ratio that will do the trick if you want a sweet cruiser and puller but it's costly to swap out a set of highway gears to a higher ratio.
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Old 06-06-2018, 10:15 AM
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Anvil1010 Anvil1010 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChickakooKookoo View Post
If you do go with a tuner, stay away from Bullydog. Have had nothing but problems with mine but then again, mine's for a diesel. I've heard good things about the black maxx and the e-z link, but have no personal experience.
Too bad you have trouble with Bullydog. I have ran one on my Duramax for almost 9 years and I love it.
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Old 06-06-2018, 10:21 AM
ChickakooKookoo ChickakooKookoo is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Anvil1010 View Post
Too bad you have trouble with Bullydog. I have ran one on my Duramax for almost 9 years and I love it.
Yeah I bought the most expensive tuner out there thinking it would be problem free but it's definitely not. And every tuner shop I've gone to looks aghast when I tell them I have a Bullydog.

At this point I've had the following issues -

Tune kicking out with cold weather, causes CEL for too much fuel
Does not read the transmission temp, always shows -17C
The feature that is supposed to show you DTC codes just clears them without showing you what it actually cleared
Does not allow you to change the tire size in the PCM as advertised, I run 35.5", it only allows you to set a max of 34.1" (WTF 34.1" really???)
Randomly just doesn't read any info from the truck sometimes. I have to pull over and restart the engine to get the tuner to work.

Pretty crappy for a $1300 tuner.
The blackmaxx/EZ links are around $700 I've heard but you can't change tunes on the fly and I really like the tow mode for when I'm hauling our trailer so I just put up with it cause I don't think there's any other tuners on the market that let you change on the fly.
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Old 06-06-2018, 10:41 AM
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I don't know where you live, but if you are in the Peace region, get in contact with Ernie at Supreme Diesel. He will get you sorted out.
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  #10  
Old 06-06-2018, 10:45 AM
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Anvil1010 Anvil1010 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChickakooKookoo View Post
Yeah I bought the most expensive tuner out there thinking it would be problem free but it's definitely not. And every tuner shop I've gone to looks aghast when I tell them I have a Bullydog.

At this point I've had the following issues -

Tune kicking out with cold weather, causes CEL for too much fuel
Does not read the transmission temp, always shows -17C
The feature that is supposed to show you DTC codes just clears them without showing you what it actually cleared
Does not allow you to change the tire size in the PCM as advertised, I run 35.5", it only allows you to set a max of 34.1" (WTF 34.1" really???)
Randomly just doesn't read any info from the truck sometimes. I have to pull over and restart the engine to get the tuner to work.

Pretty crappy for a $1300 tuner.
The blackmaxx/EZ links are around $700 I've heard but you can't change tunes on the fly and I really like the tow mode for when I'm hauling our trailer so I just put up with it cause I don't think there's any other tuners on the market that let you change on the fly.
Because I just did the delete, I needed to get the Bullydog #40428 that disables that function in the computer. I still have the old one I ran #40420 for nine years. If you are in GP stop by, we can install it and see if your experience is any different.
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Old 06-06-2018, 11:39 AM
ChickakooKookoo ChickakooKookoo is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Anvil1010 View Post
Because I just did the delete, I needed to get the Bullydog #40428 that disables that function in the computer. I still have the old one I ran #40420 for nine years. If you are in GP stop by, we can install it and see if your experience is any different.
I might be going to FSJ sometime in the next year to see the clan but otherwise, nope I'm in Edmonton.
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Old 06-06-2018, 12:19 PM
Arty Arty is offline
 
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The most recent flash for a gas pickup engine should already have combustion set to an optimum 14.7 stoichiometric ratio, or thereabouts, to get maximum energy out of a unit of fuel. I'm guessing that spark advance and gas injection pattern would also be already optimized to achieve CAFE standards on regular gas, and that VANOS doesn't exist in a 5-liter truck engine. So what's left to programmatically 'tune' on a gas engine (not transmission) at the usual low- to mid-range rpm ranges?

Most drivers I've ever known don't max out the power band on a big V-8 gasoline engine in daily average use. That means there's almost always lots of reserve left on top of the 15% to 40% output they're driving at. So as long as the stock engine is set up properly, just put the gas pedal down more and you'll get a lot more power than you're used to. You'll drink a lot more gas with the engine howling away in uncharted territory, but you'll have all the power you want.

Putting some improved basic hardware on the engine is a whole different story. Tuned, high-grade long-tube headers (NOT noisy cat-backs or 'cold-air intakes') are probably the best improvement you can make, for noticeably better torque and power at lower through mid- rpm ranges. Make sure all the other fuel/air/ignition components such as MAF sensor, air & fuel filter, plugs & injectors are well maintained and cats aren't getting plugged then you're golden. Works for me.
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Old 06-06-2018, 10:13 PM
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fordtruckin fordtruckin is offline
 
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Thanks all, that's what I was thinking but since I've never done it I never knew.
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Old 06-07-2018, 07:36 PM
wildalberta wildalberta is offline
 
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Allot of guys on here must not have ever had a properly done custom tune. Now u wont get near the gains as a diesel, but i am still very impressed with my 5.3 chevs changes with the tune. There are so many parameters on these new vehicles your head will hurt but if the time is taken to go thru everything, it is night and day.
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Old 06-07-2018, 08:00 PM
Arty Arty is offline
 
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Originally Posted by wildalberta View Post
Allot of guys on here must not have ever had a properly done custom tune. Now u wont get near the gains as a diesel, but i am still very impressed with my 5.3 chevs changes with the tune. There are so many parameters on these new vehicles your head will hurt but if the time is taken to go thru everything, it is night and day.
Ok. So what exactly was changed, and what was the reasoning behind each one?

I had a good vehicle once which I put full Dinan upgrades on, and the difference was spectacular. But the exhaust and intake hardware was changed, as well as the tuning. And I had to use highest grade gasoline to take advantage of all of it. Everything together was much more than the sum of the parts. Just the new chip would have been useless.

For a small engine which you're running wide open much of the time, it all makes sense. For a big V8 which you're only running 15-20% most of the time, not so much.
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Old 06-07-2018, 08:01 PM
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Pixel Shooter Pixel Shooter is offline
 
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Always interesting to read replies. Not a fan of canned tunes especially for gas. I can tell you a custom tune by the right guy will wake a truck up and better mileage. CAI and exhaust to help your engine breath better makes a difference. Just waiting for warranty to expire and will get my truck done again. Well worth the money
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Old 06-07-2018, 10:33 PM
Buckhead Buckhead is offline
 
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The reason GM trucks wake up with a custom tune is that the tuner is turning off the Torque Management part of the trans program so you don’t have that such a delay on throttle tip in (especially full throttle). It has very little to do with making a bunch more power.
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Old 06-07-2018, 10:53 PM
Arty Arty is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Buckhead View Post
The reason GM trucks wake up with a custom tune is that the tuner is turning off the Torque Management part of the trans program so you don’t have that such a delay on throttle tip in (especially full throttle). It has very little to do with making a bunch more power.
Yeah, I was thinking about that over suppertime. The Ford has deliberate delay between pedal input and what the engine will do too. I'm guessing that's so if you're going down a very bumpy road, your foot slapping the pedal all the time won't cause the engine and truck to lurch all over the place.
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Old 06-07-2018, 11:05 PM
Buckhead Buckhead is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Arty View Post
Yeah, I was thinking about that over suppertime. The Ford has deliberate delay between pedal input and what the engine will do too. I'm guessing that's so if you're going down a very bumpy road, your foot slapping the pedal all the time won't cause the engine and truck to lurch all over the place.
Actually it’s GM’s way of detuning the truck so they don’t have as many transmission and rear diff warranty claims.
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Old 06-07-2018, 11:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Pixel Shooter View Post
Always interesting to read replies. Not a fan of canned tunes especially for gas. I can tell you a custom tune by the right guy will wake a truck up and better mileage. CAI and exhaust to help your engine breath better makes a difference. Just waiting for warranty to expire and will get my truck done again. Well worth the money
Well maybe I’ll have to check with a few guys around here I know. I figured a set of headers would be in order so I may as well do the whole exhaust and intake while I’m at that. Does a larger throttle body help with anything? A buddy of mine In High school did that and I never did figure out what the end result was.
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Old 06-08-2018, 12:10 AM
Arty Arty is offline
 
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Well maybe I’ll have to check with a few guys around here I know. I figured a set of headers would be in order so I may as well do the whole exhaust and intake while I’m at that. Does a larger throttle body help with anything? A buddy of mine In High school did that and I never did figure out what the end result was.
If you change a huge amount of stuff with the hardware, then you'll have to do a custom tune too.

On a big V8 I wouldn't touch the throttle body unless you're putting a turbo-charger on it. Or anything else upstream of the intake plenum. Some people advise against CAI because of water-ingestion problems in low vehicles, too-dense air in the middle of a Canadian winter, and excessive noise and changes to input-air pulsing if the Bernoulli-snorkel is removed.. Too much trouble for my tastes in any case.
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Old 06-08-2018, 12:26 AM
propliner propliner is offline
 
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I bored and stroked my 5.3, put on a blower and got a lean and mean dyno tune. I now make 600rwhp and run an 11.9s 1/4 mile in my extended cab truck. Gas mileage? Not great. Power? Yes, thank you.
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Old 06-08-2018, 07:46 AM
wildalberta wildalberta is offline
 
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yes theres tourque management, and throttle delay and laggy shifting. i increased throttle sensitivity by allot cuz the dead pedal thing annoyed me. most of the "tourque management" is gone. theres quite a few parameters to tweak for that. these trannies are very tough, you will not hurt them with a stock 5.3 with everything turned off. i bumped timing quite a bit, increased the rev limit thus correlating shift points. i increased the speeds at which it upshifts as i cannot stand it lugging around at low speeds. lots of tranny shifting parameters to make it firmer and faster. it feels like i added like 50 or more horse. did i....probly not, but just getting rid of allot of the parameters holding it back makes a world of difference. it cost me roughly 400 bucks all in thru a tuner out of the states. i ran lots of data logs and sending things back and forth, probly loaded and tested 8 different tunes until i was happy.
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Old 06-08-2018, 08:10 AM
propliner propliner is offline
 
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Originally Posted by wildalberta View Post
yes theres tourque management, and throttle delay and laggy shifting. i increased throttle sensitivity by allot cuz the dead pedal thing annoyed me. most of the "tourque management" is gone. theres quite a few parameters to tweak for that. these trannies are very tough, you will not hurt them with a stock 5.3 with everything turned off. i bumped timing quite a bit, increased the rev limit thus correlating shift points. i increased the speeds at which it upshifts as i cannot stand it lugging around at low speeds. lots of tranny shifting parameters to make it firmer and faster. it feels like i added like 50 or more horse. did i....probly not, but just getting rid of allot of the parameters holding it back makes a world of difference. it cost me roughly 400 bucks all in thru a tuner out of the states. i ran lots of data logs and sending things back and forth, probly loaded and tested 8 different tunes until i was happy.
Yes, HPTuners is what I used, and if you can get some professional help in changing parameters either in person or by datalog, you'll really make some headway. Throw a few mods in and she can really sing.
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Old 06-08-2018, 08:29 AM
wildalberta wildalberta is offline
 
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yes i also used HPtuners. tweaked allot on my own but the tuner did lots of changes after looking through various data logs.
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Old 06-08-2018, 11:10 AM
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you wont get much lift out of shorty headers but you definitely will with long tube headers As another member posted, I don't think the throttle body would give you anything in all honesty.

Give Chris a call at player3 performance, he will steer you in right direction, worth the long distance call https://www.facebook.com/pg/player3performance/posts/

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Well maybe I’ll have to check with a few guys around here I know. I figured a set of headers would be in order so I may as well do the whole exhaust and intake while I’m at that. Does a larger throttle body help with anything? A buddy of mine In High school did that and I never did figure out what the end result was.
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