Go Back   Alberta Outdoorsmen Forum > Main Category > General Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-28-2020, 02:12 PM
Dean2's Avatar
Dean2 Dean2 is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Near Edmonton
Posts: 15,049
Default Pattern Developing on Covid Second Wave

More & more of these types of publications surfacing. It is becoming almost impossible to know who to believe, but I do know that lack of deaths, and lack of people in hospital or ICU is making me very suspicious..

Subject: Chief Science Officer for Pfizer Says “Second Wave” Faked on False-Positive COVID Tests, “Pandemic Is Over”

Chief Science Officer for Pfizer Says “Second Wave” Faked on False-Positive COVID Tests, “Pandemic Is Over”
By Ralph Lopez
Global Research, September 24, 2020

URL: https://www.globalresearch.ca/chief-...c-over/5724753


In a stunning development, a former Chief Science Officer for the pharmaceutical giant Pfizer says “there is no science to suggest a second wave should happen.” The “Big Pharma” insider asserts that false positive results from inherently unreliable COVID tests are being used to manufacture a “second wave” based on “new cases.”
Dr. Mike Yeadon, a former Vice President and Chief Science Officer for Pfizer for 16 years, says that half or even “almost all” of tests for COVID are false positives. Dr. Yeadon also argues that the threshold for herd immunity may be much lower than previously thought, and may have been reached in many countries already.
In an interview last weekDr. Yeadon was asked:
“we are basing a government policy, an economic policy, a civil liberties policy, in terms of limiting people to six people in a meeting…all based on, what may well be, completely fake data on this coronavirus?”
Dr. Yeadon answered with a simple “yes.”
Dr. Yeadon said in the interview that, given the “shape” of all important indicators in a worldwide pandemic, such as hospitalizations, ICU utilization, and deaths, “the pandemic is fundamentally over.”
Yeadon said in the interview:
“Were it not for the test data that you get from the TV all the time, you would rightly conclude that the pandemic was over, as nothing much has happened. Of course people go to the hospital, moving into the autumn flu season…but there is no science to suggest a second wave should happen.”
In a paper published this month, which was co-authored by Yeadon and two of his colleagues, “How Likely is a Second Wave?”, the scientists write:
“It has widely been observed that in all heavily infected countries in Europe and several of the US states likewise, that the shape of the daily deaths vs. time curves is similar to ours in the UK. Many of these curves are not just similar, but almost super imposable.”
In the data for UK, Sweden, the US, and the world, it can be seen that in all cases, deaths were on the rise in March through mid or late April, then began tapering off in a smooth slope which flattened around the end of June and continues to today. The case rates however, based on testing, rise and swing upwards and downwards wildly.
Media messaging in the US is already ramping up expectations of a “second wave.”
Survival Rate of COVID Now Estimated to be 99.8%, Similar to Flu, Prior T-Cell Immunity
The survival rate of COVID-19 has been upgraded since May to 99.8% of infections. This comes close to ordinary flu, the survival rate of which is 99.9%. Although COVID can have serious after-effects, so can flu or any respiratory illness. The present survival rate is far higher than initial grim guesses in March and April, cited by Dr. Anthony Fauci, of 94%, or 20 to 30 times deadlier. The Infection Fatality Rate (IFR) value accepted by Yeadon et al in the paper is .26%. The survival rate of a disease is 100% minus the IFR.
Dr. Yeadon pointed out that the “novel” COVID-19 contagion is novel only in the sense that it is a new type of coronavirus. But, he said, there are presently four strains which circulate freely throughout the population, most often linked to the common cold.
In the scientific paper, Yeadon et al write:
“There are at least four well characterised family members (229E, NL63, OC43 and HKU1) which are endemic and cause some of the common colds we experience, especially in winter. They all have striking sequence similarity to the new coronavirus.”
The scientists argue that much of the population already has, if not antibodies to COVID, some level of “T-cell” immunity from exposure to other related coronaviruses, which have been circulating long before COVID-19.
The scientists write:
“A major component our immune systems is the group of white blood cells called T-cells whose job it is to memorise a short piece of whatever virus we were infected with so the right cell types can multiply rapidly and protect us if we get a related infection. Responses to COVID-19 have been shown in dozens of blood samples taken from donors before the new virus arrived.”
Introducing the idea that some prior immunity to COVID-19 already existed, the authors of “How Likely is a Second Wave?” write:
“It is now established that at least 30% of our population already had immunological recognition of this new virus, before it even arrived…COVID-19 is new, but coronaviruses are not.”
They go on to say that, because of this prior resistance, only 15-25% of a population being infected may be sufficient to reach herd immunity:
“…epidemiological studies show that, with the extent of prior immunity that we can now reasonably assume to be the case, only 15-25% of the population being infected is sufficient to bring the spread of the virus to a halt…”
In the US, accepting a death toll of 200,000, and an infection fatality rate of 99.8%, this would mean for every person who has died, there would be about 400 people who had been infected, and lived. This would translate to around 80 million Americans, or 27% of the population. This touches Yeadon’s and his colleagues’ threshold for herd immunity.
The authors say:
“current literature finds that between 20% and 50% of the population display this pre-pandemic T-cell responsiveness, meaning we could adopt an initially susceptible population value from 80% to 50%. The lower the real initial susceptibility, the more secure we are in our contention that a herd immunity threshold (HIT) has been reached.”
The False Positive Second Wave
Covid-19: How Likely Is a Second Wave?
Of the PCR test, the prevalent COVID test used around the world, the authors write:
“more than half of the positives are likely to be false, potentially all of them.”
The authors explain that what the PCR test actually measures is “simply the presence of partial RNA sequences present in the intact virus,” which could be a piece of dead virus which cannot make the subject sick, and cannot be transmitted, and cannot make anyone else sick.
“…a true positive does not necessarily indicate the presence of viable virus. In limited studies to date, many researchers have shown that some subjects remain PCR-positive long after the ability to culture virus from swabs has disappeared. We term this a ‘cold positive’ (to distinguish it from a ‘hot positive’, someone actually infected with intact virus). The key point about ‘cold positives’ is that they are not ill, not symptomatic, not going to become symptomatic and, furthermore, are unable to infect others.”
Overall, Dr. Yeadon builds the case that any “second wave” of COVID, and any government case for lockdowns, given the well-known principles of epidemiology, will be entirely manufactured.
In Boston this month, a lab suspended doing coronavirus testing after 400 false positives were discovered.
An analysis of PCR-based test at medical website medrxiv.org states:
“data on PCR-based tests for similar viruses show that PCR-based testing produces enough false positive results to make positive results highly unreliable over a broad range of real-world scenarios.”
University of Oxford Professor Carl Heneghan, Director of Oxford’s Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine, writes in a July article “How Many COVID Diagnoses Are False Positives?”:
“going off current testing practices and results, Covid-19 might never be shown to disappear.”
Of course, the most famous incidence of PCR test unreliability was when the President of Tanzania revealed to the world that he had covertly sent samples from a goat, a sheep, and a pawpaw fruit to a COVID testing lab. They all came back positive for COVID.
Made in China
In August, the government of Sweden discovered 3700 false COVID positives from test kits made by China’s BGI Genomics. The kits were approved in March by the FDA for use in the US.
Second Waves of Coronaviruses Not Normal
Dr. Yeadon challenged the idea that all pandemics take place in subsequent waves, citing two other coronavirus outbreaks, the SARS virus in 2003, and MERS in 2012. What may seem like two waves can actually be two single waves occurring in different geographical regions. They say data gathered from the relatively recent SARS 2003 and the MERS outbreaks support their contention.
In the case of the MERS:
“it is actually multiple single waves affecting geographically distinct populations at different times as the disease spreads. In this case the first major peak was seen in Saudi Arabia with a second peak some months later in the Republic of Korea. Analysed individually, each area followed a typical single event…”
In the interview, when questioned about the Spanish Flu epidemic of 1918, which came in successive waves during World War I, Yeadon pointed out that this was an entirely different kind of virus, not in the coronavirus family. Others have blamed general early century malnutrition and unsanitary conditions. World War I soldiers, hard hit, lived in cold mud and conditions the worst imaginable for immune resistance.
Lockdowns Don’t Work
Another argument made by Yeadon et al in their September paper is that there has been no difference in outcomes related to lockdowns.
They say:
“The shape of the deaths vs. time curve implies a natural process and not one resulting mainly from human interventions…Famously, Sweden has adopted an almost laissez faire approach, with qualified advice given, but no generalised lockdowns. Yet its profile and that of the UK’s is very similar.”
Mild-Mannered Yeadon Demolishes Man Who Started It All, Professor Neil Ferguson
The former Pfizer executive and scientist singles out one former colleague for withering rebuke for his role in the pandemic, Professor Neil Ferguson. Ferguson taught at Imperial College while Yeadon was affiliated. Ferguson’s computer modelprovided the rationale for governments to launch draconian orders which turned free societies into virtual prisons overnight. Over what is now estimated by the CDC to be a 99.8% survival rate virus.
Dr. Yeardon said in the interview that “no serious scientist gives any validity” to Ferguson’s model.
Speaking with thinly-veiled contempt for Ferguson, Dr. Yeardon took special pains to point out to his interviewer:
“It’s important that you know most scientists don’t accept that it [Ferguson’s model] was even faintly right…but the government is still wedded to the model.”
Yeardon joins other scientists in castigating governments for following Ferguson’s model, the assumptions of which all worldwide lockdowns are based on. One of these scientists is Dr. Johan Giesecke, former chief scientist for the European Center for Disease Control and Prevention, who called Ferguson’s model “the most influential scientific paper” in memory, and also “one of the most wrong.”
It was Ferguson’s model which held that “mitigation” measures were necessary, i.e. social distancing and business closures, in order to prevent, for example, over 2.2 million people dying from COVID in the US.
Ferguson predicted that Sweden would pay a terrible price for no lockdown, with 40,000 COVID deaths by May 1, and 100,000 by June. Sweden’s death count is now 5800.The Swedish government says this coincides to a mild flu season. Although initially higher, Sweden now has a lower death rate per-capita than the US, which it achieved without the terrific economic damage still ongoing in the US. Sweden never closed restaurants, bars, sports, most schools, or movie theaters. The government never ordered people to wear masks.
Dr. Yeadon speaks bitterly of the lives lost as a result of lockdown policies, and of the “savable” countless lives which will be further lost, from important surgeries and other healthcare deferred, should lockdowns be reimposed, .
Yeardon is a successful entrepreneur, the founder of a biotech company which was acquired by Novartis, another pharmaceutical giant. Yeadon’s unit at Pfizer was the Asthma and Respiratory Research Unit. (Yeadon, partial list of publications.)
Why is All This Happening? US Congressman Says He is Convinced of “Government Plan” to Continue Lockdowns Until a Mandatory Vaccine.

Conspiracy Theories?
The list of news items grows which reflects unfavorably upon the narrative being played out on the major television networks, of a mysterious, “novel” virus which has been controlled only by an unprecedented assault on individual rights and liberties, now ready to pounce again, on already suffering populations with no choice but to submit to further government orders.
Governors have quietly extended their powers indefinitely by shifting the goalpost, without saying so, from “flattening the curve” to ease the strain on hospitals, to “no new cases.” From “pandemic,” to “case-demic.”
In Germany, an organization of 500 German doctors and scientists has formed, who say that government response to the COVID virus has been vastly out of proportion to the actual severity of the disease.
Evidence of chicanery mounts. Both the CDC, and US Coronavirus Task Force headed by Dr. Deborah Birx, are candid that the definition of death-by-COVID has been flexible, and that the rules favor calling it COVID whenever possible. This opens the possibility of a vastly inflated death count. In New York, Governor Andrew Cuomo’s administration is under federal investigation for all but signing the death warrants for thousands of nursing home elderly, when the state sent COVID patients into the nursing homes, over the helpless objections of nursing home executives and staff.
Why are the major media ignoring what would seem to be an eminently newsworthy item, an industry rockstar like Yeadon, calling out the biggest guns in the public health world? Would not the Sunday talk shows, the Chris Wallaces and Meet the Press, want to grill such a man for record audiences?
Here the talk may turn to dark agendas, and not just mere incompetence, obtuseness, and stupidity.
One opinion was put forth by US Representative Thomas Massie (R-KY) when he said on the Tom Woods Show on August 16th:
“The secret the government is keeping from you is that they plan to keep us shut down until there is some kind of vaccine, and then whether it’s compulsory at the federal level, or the state level, or maybe they persuade your employers though another PPP program that you won’t qualify for unless you make your employees get the vaccine, I think that’s their plan. Somebody convince me that’s not their plan, because there is no logical ending to this other than that.”
Another theory is that the COVID crisis is being used consolidate never-before-imaged levels of control over individuals and society by elites. This is put forth by the nephew of the slain president, Robert F. Kennedy Jr., son of also-assassinated Bobby Kennedy. In a speech at a massive anti-lockdown, anti-mandatory COVID vaccination rally in Germany, Bobby Jr. warned of the existence of a:
“bio-security agenda, the rise of the authoritarian surveillance state and the Big Pharma sponsored coup d’etat against liberal democracy…The pandemic is a crisis of convenience for the elite who are dictating these policies,”
In a lawsuit, Kennedy Jr.’s medical witnesses warn that mandatory flu shots many make children more susceptible to COVID.
The warnings of dire intentions of Kennedy’s “elite” are coming from more mainstream sources. Dr. Joseph Marcela, of the highly trusted, mega-traffic medical information site Mercola.com, has penned a careful review of one doctor’s claims of genetics-altering vaccines coming our way.
And it does not assuage fears that a defense establishment website, Defense One, reports that permanent under-the skin biochips, injectable by the same syringe that holds a vaccine, may soon be approved by the FDA. It does not help the anti-conspiracy theory cause that, according to Newsweek, Dr. Anthony Fauci actually did give NIH funding to Wuhan lab for bat coronavirus research so dangerous it was opposed on record by 200 scientists, and banned in the US.
In 1957, a pandemic hit, the H2N2 Asian Flu with a .7% Infection Fatality Rate, which killed as many people per capita in the US as the COVID has claimed now. There was never a single mention of it in the news at the time, never mind the extraordinary upheaval that we see now. In 1968 the Hong Kong Flu hit the US (.5% IFR,) taking 100,000 people when the US had a markedly lower population. Not single alarm was raised, not a single store closed nor even a network news story. The following summer the largest gathering in US history took place, Woodstock.
Mass hysteria is never accidental, but benefits someone. The only question left to answer is, who?

Last edited by Dean2; 09-28-2020 at 02:28 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09-28-2020, 02:15 PM
pikergolf's Avatar
pikergolf pikergolf is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 11,369
Default

Between US elections and Covid, it is going to an interesting six months coming up.
__________________
“One of the sad signs of our times is that we have demonized those who produce, subsidized those who refuse to produce, and canonized those who complain.”

Thomas Sowell
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-28-2020, 02:25 PM
58thecat's Avatar
58thecat 58thecat is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: At the end of the Thirsty Beaver Trail, Pinsky lake, Alberta.
Posts: 24,607
Default

who is telling the truth?????? kinda like having a group of toddlers all lined up and ask who spilt the milk....we do know for sure 2020 has been a kick and arse.
__________________

Be careful when you follow the masses, sometimes the "M" is silent...
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-28-2020, 02:48 PM
walking buffalo's Avatar
walking buffalo walking buffalo is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 10,226
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 58thecat View Post
who is telling the truth?????? kinda like having a group of toddlers all lined up and ask who spilt the milk....we do know for sure 2020 has been a kick and arse.
Truth, or facts?

I guess the current trend is to believe whatever suits yourself, facts be damned.


Such as the facts behind hydroxychloroquine.
The drug is saving lives of those infected and probably preventing new infections. Yet, those of a certain political persuasion continue to call it the Devil's drug and allow people to die needlessly.
__________________
Alberta Fish and Wildlife Outdoor Recreation Policy -

"to identify very rare, scarce or special forms of fish and wildlife outdoor recreation opportunities and to ensure that access to these opportunities continues to be available to all Albertans."
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-28-2020, 02:51 PM
58thecat's Avatar
58thecat 58thecat is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: At the end of the Thirsty Beaver Trail, Pinsky lake, Alberta.
Posts: 24,607
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by walking buffalo View Post
Truth, or facts?

I guess the current trend is to believe whatever suits yourself, facts be damned.


Such as the facts behind hydroxychloroquine.
The drug is saving lives of those infected and probably preventing new infections. Yet, those of a certain political persuasion continue to call it the Devil's drug and allow people to die needlessly.
yup just look at Trump and Tropical Trump...two countries just having a party.....
__________________

Be careful when you follow the masses, sometimes the "M" is silent...
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-28-2020, 03:18 PM
bessiedog's Avatar
bessiedog bessiedog is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,372
Default

Seriously Dean.

Global research?

I’m pretty sure it was you I called out for using this source one before.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Research

The founder of this Organization also published that the 9/11 attacks were CIA orchestrated.


So.... you got an agenda here or is this just any honest mistake?
__________________
"How vain it is to sit down to write when you have not stood up to live.”
-HDT
"A vote is like a rifle; its usefulness depends on the character of the user." T. Roosevelt
"I don't always troll, only on days that end in Y."
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-28-2020, 03:19 PM
walking buffalo's Avatar
walking buffalo walking buffalo is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 10,226
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 58thecat View Post
yup just look at Trump and Tropical Trump...two countries just having a party.....
And here is a perfect example of what I just alluded to....
People being ignorant of the facts, making and spewing their opinion based on perceived truths.
I didn't even mention Trump, or Tropical Trump or any specific country....
yet you just couldn't resist trumpeting.




Facts are that doctors around the world are using hydroxychloroquine and are achieving significant positive results in saving lives and shortening infection times.

Meanwhile many doctors around the world are not allowed to prescribe hydroxychloroquine because of politicians that care more about their politics than saving lives.
Thousands of people unable to access this drug are needlessly dying, essentially being murdered by their leaders.

Disgusting....
__________________
Alberta Fish and Wildlife Outdoor Recreation Policy -

"to identify very rare, scarce or special forms of fish and wildlife outdoor recreation opportunities and to ensure that access to these opportunities continues to be available to all Albertans."
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-29-2020, 10:54 AM
Sundancefisher's Avatar
Sundancefisher Sundancefisher is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Calgary Perchdance
Posts: 18,888
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean2 View Post
Ferguson predicted that Sweden would pay a terrible price for no lockdown, with 40,000 COVID deaths by May 1, and 100,000 by June. Sweden’s death count is now 5800.The Swedish government says this coincides to a mild flu season. Although initially higher, Sweden now has a lower death rate per-capita than the US, which it achieved without the terrific economic damage still ongoing in the US. Sweden never closed restaurants, bars, sports, most schools, or movie theaters. The government never ordered people to wear masks.
Interesting post.

Curiously enough...Canada has masks and social distancing and 1/2 the death rate of Sweden. US is higher as they got hit hard in the seniors in New York and New Jersey. Plus likely a higher obesity rate than Sweden along with socio economic reasons can easily explain why the US has a higher rate than Sweden.

Oddly enough the article doesn't mention that while there is no law stating Swedes have to wear a mask...many do or want to say on transit for example. And they do have social distancing in place.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...esson-to-share


Remember a lot of models were predicting doom assuming nothing happened to slow or prevent it. Sweden did do things to stop the spread such as new measures to protect the elderly, social distancing and they have a strong healthcare system.

The US has let lose in some spots like New York...then reined it in after the fact. For the rest of the country...misinformation and conspiracies and politics have played havoc with trying to gain control over the virus.

Is healthcare around the world getting a handle on the virus? I believe they are as they have learned a lot. Is it worse than the flu...absolutely and proof remains in the numbers compared apples to apples. Infections versus deaths. Extrapolating to suspected infections versus deaths...same thing. Infectiousness...Covid remains more infectious than the flu. Demographics...flu kills more kids than older adults... Covid kills more seniors than kids.

Economy wouldn't be bad off if people social distanced, wore masks and cleaned appropriately. Unfortunately...those who know better and refuse to following common sense are the cause of the continuing problems we are faced with.

In Sweden... people are very respectful of one another. In the US...they shoot each other over wearing a mask.

Hmmmm... kinda hard to compare Sweden and the US...
__________________
It is not the most intellectual of the species that survives; it is not the strongest that survives; but the species that survives is the one that is able best to adapt and adjust to the changing environment in which it finds itself. Charles Darwin
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-29-2020, 11:15 AM
MountainTi's Avatar
MountainTi MountainTi is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Caroline
Posts: 7,271
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundancefisher View Post
Interesting post.

Curiously enough...Canada has masks and social distancing and 1/2 the death rate of Sweden.


:
Canada has a population density of 4 people per sq km
Sweden has 25

Not much of a comparison.
How about quebec vs sweden
Roughly the same population. Sweden actually has a couple million more people

Total number of deaths
Sweden-5890
Quebec-5833

Dang that's curious
__________________
Two reasons you may think CO2 is a pollutant
1.You weren't paying attention in grade 5
2. You're stupid
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-29-2020, 11:42 AM
Kurt505 Kurt505 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Communist state
Posts: 13,245
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainTi View Post
Canada has a population density of 4 people per sq km
Sweden has 25

Not much of a comparison.
How about quebec vs sweden
Roughly the same population. Sweden actually has a couple million more people

Total number of deaths
Sweden-5890
Quebec-5833

Dang that's curious

Stop it with the factual comparisons already, we need to keep the panic going.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 09-29-2020, 11:53 AM
raab raab is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,858
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainTi View Post
Canada has a population density of 4 people per sq km
Sweden has 25

Not much of a comparison.
How about quebec vs sweden
Roughly the same population. Sweden actually has a couple million more people

Total number of deaths
Sweden-5890
Quebec-5833

Dang that's curious
It's also too early to say that Sweden did it wrong. They're currently not looking too bad, looks like the herd immunity theory worked. We'll see though.
__________________
“If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.” John Stuart Mill
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 09-29-2020, 11:54 AM
Smoky buck Smoky buck is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 7,493
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainTi View Post
Canada has a population density of 4 people per sq km
Sweden has 25

Not much of a comparison.
How about quebec vs sweden
Roughly the same population. Sweden actually has a couple million more people

Total number of deaths
Sweden-5890
Quebec-5833

Dang that's curious
Let’s not start using realistic comparisons like that now because it doesn’t support the the sacrifices made in the name of Canadians safety Lol

Another interesting thing about Covid19 deaths is the number of cases that were on palliative (basically going to die) care before contracting Covid19 in care home deaths but the cause of death is Covid19. Yes the final cause is Covid19 but these are people that are so fragile any respiratory infection is lethal. Lots of stores of questionable death certificates as well. Average age of death is still older than the average life expectancy in Alberta

To this date I now know 16 people who have recovered from Covid19 and not one needed to be hospitalized. Not one is experiencing lingering side effects at this time. Opinions of their experience range from minor sniffles to the worst chest infection they have ever had

Covid19 is definitely real and people have died but it is looking like it’s blown out of proportion more and more every day
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 09-29-2020, 12:01 PM
raab raab is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,858
Default

I think the lockdown advocate should look at Peru and try to explain what happened. The fact is lockdowns won't stop the spread.
__________________
“If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.” John Stuart Mill
Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:00 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.