Keystone XL

[HalfBreed]

I wonder if now's a good time to move some money into railroad remediation companies?

[Map Maker]

Originally Posted by Sporty

Not sure any of us expected otherwise. The only jobs JT defends are those in the east.

Yes. We have to do for ourselves.
I say buy Nova chemicals again, and make the strongest plastic in the world with our feedstock.
The specialty plastic will be used to make tesla car body parts.
Build a couple EV body plants in Alberta.
100% all Albertan made and sold.

Let someone else worry about the batteries.

Not sure what kind of GDP that can bring but bet it would be a good chunk if tesla gets a foothold.

* edit- nova chemical is expanding very aggressively in Sarnia, which is right in the middle of that car building facility area, coincidence?

[bdub]

The Dems are to stupid to realize that there is no great economic alternative for the type of crude that US refiners need. They think the whole country and the rest of the world can greatly reduce its reliance on fossil fuel by some miraculous green shift. Last I looked all those Indians, Asians, Africans etc. seem to be wanting to increase their purchases of cars. They don't like walking any better than us fat North Americans. And electricity doesn't just come out of thin air. Most of it comes from fossil fuels, nuclear or damming rivers.

They could replace our oil with crude from Venezuela but bit of a snag there with sanctions and that country in shambles. Not all oil is equal. Shale oil is good for gasoline, they need our heavy for economic diesel and heating oil production. When we get TMX shipping, the WCS diff is going to narrow further and costs for Canadian heavy will go up relative to other sources unless things change drastically in regards to Venezuela and the States. If the TMX expansion gets shutdown we're screwed though. That has to get built.

[Crankbait]

Originally Posted by Map Maker

Yes. We have to do for ourselves.
I say buy Nova chemicals again, and make the strongest plastic in the world with our feedstock.
The specialty plastic will be used to make tesla car body parts.
Build a couple EV body plants in Alberta.
100% all Albertan made and sold.

Let someone else worry about the batteries.

Not sure what kind of GDP that can bring but bet it would be a good chunk if tesla gets a foothold.

* edit- nova chemical is expanding very aggressively in Sarnia, which is right in the middle of that car building facility area, coincidence?

General electric just built their battery division in Alberta.

Entrepreneurs in Alberta or Canada line up behind foreign parties.

Great idea, just pitch it to an outside firm and as the Ozzie's say, bob's your Uncle.

[Crankbait]

Originally Posted by Crankbait

Trudeau spoke with Biden a few weeks back,, it's likely he discussed quashing keystone in order to make kenney look like a giant doofus and then Trudeau snags some votes for his precious Rideau throne.

We really need to voice outward from this forum.

Or, Trudeau has already worked out with Biden that keystone will go through and make dirty conservatives look stupid and stupid Albertans look favorable to Trudeau for the election. Then close the line again.

[graybeard]

Just when you thought that things couldn't get any worse; this really really sickens me.

The demon Turd. And, add Kenny, not as being as advertised. Not to mention Sleepy Joe...

Wow things are bad....

[Bigwoodsman]

Originally Posted by Scott N

Trudeau sure folded on this in record time.... he doesn't even attempt to defend Canadian jobs, he just shrugs his shoulders and accepts it.

Originally Posted by Sporty

Not sure any of us expected otherwise. The only jobs JT defends are those in the east.

The only jobs that matter to the turd are those in Kebec.

BW

[Osky]

Originally Posted by ken1989

My belief Biden's rational for stopping KXL is to create a oil glut in Canada and a resulting lower oil price for US. More oil will be shipped into US by rail rather than KXL - hardly making the rational that it was a environmental decision.
Canada / US relation should not have best friends relationship in the future. This needs to be made clear to Biden.
I do not understand why the KXL pipeline was not part of the new free trade agreement? Failure of Trudeau for sure.
US will be importing more oil from countries supporting terrorism rather than Canada - very sad.

Ken not a smidge of this was to navigate oil prices. This shutdown was 100% payback to the green globalist coalition. There’s no more to it than that.

Osky

[EZM]

Originally Posted by ken1989

My belief Biden's rational for stopping KXL is to create a oil glut in Canada and a resulting lower oil price for US. More oil will be shipped into US by rail rather than KXL - hardly making the rational that it was a environmental decision.
Canada / US relation should not have best friends relationship in the future. This needs to be made clear to Biden.
I do not understand why the KXL pipeline was not part of the new free trade agreement? Failure of Trudeau for sure.
US will be importing more oil from countries supporting terrorism rather than Canada - very sad.

I agree that oil/gas may have a place in NAFTA (restructured).

But I don't think this is/was the strategy - as the United States is a net exporter. A lower oil price would not benefit them. It would hurt them as they are also a high cost producer.

[Sloughsharkjigger]

Perhaps the previous government was not that wrong in securing rail cars? Current government called that move out.
End of the day... one bought pipe the other bought rail tankers... obviously someone was thinking beyond the end of their nose.

[jstubbs]

Originally Posted by Sloughsharkjigger

Perhaps the previous government was not that wrong in securing rail cars? Current government called that move out.
End of the day... one bought pipe the other bought rail tankers... obviously someone was thinking beyond the end of their nose.

Kenney's decision to divest those contracts also incurred a $2.1 billion loss. Of course, Notley is the one who signed us up for those contracts to begin with.

It's all so tiresome. Is it so much to ask for politicians to stop betting billions of OUR money on ridiculous **** like this?

Between KXL and those rail contracts, that'd be $3.6 billion back in public purse. Or could have been used to pay down some of Alberta's over $100b+ debt.

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by EZM

I agree that oil/gas may have a place in NAFTA (restructured).

But I don't think this is/was the strategy - as the United States is a net exporter. A lower oil price would not benefit them. It would hurt them as they are also a high cost producer.

Import WCS at a low price and refine in facilities that can actually handle it as feedstock. Export Permian oil at WTI pricing. Genius lol. Except they already do this.

[Art Smeller]

Kenney loses 1.5 billion in tax dollars on xl.
What a fool.
123 rigs drilling in AB right now.
Thats positive

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by jstubbs

Kenney's decision to divest those contracts also incurred a $2.1 billion loss. Of course, Notley is the one who signed us up for those contracts to begin with.

It's all so tiresome. Is it so much to ask for politicians to stop betting billions of OUR money on ridiculous **** like this?

Between KXL and those rail contracts, that'd be $3.6 billion back in public purse. Or could have been used to pay down some of Alberta's over $100b+ debt.

Lets not forget the almost two billion that Notley cost us over the electrical contracts.

https://calgaryherald.com/opinion/co...-fiasco-mounts

[Art Smeller]

The US may need that bitumen in the future.
It's here

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by Art Smeller

The US may need that bitumen in the future.
It's here

Strategic reserves....and they don't even need to store it

[gman1978]

What’s the big picture reason for the cancellation? We all know it’s not about some poor aboriginal in the Dakotas they are just pons. Is it as simple as the states to benefit the most are republican and he is laying the boots to them? Or is it to play the environmental card to get the urban vote??

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by gman1978

What’s the big picture reason for the cancellation? We all know it’s not about some poor aboriginal in the Dakotas they are just pons. Is it as simple as the states to benefit the most are republican and he is laying the boots to them? Or is it to play the environmental card to get the urban vote??

Just as likely because Trump approved the pipeline, and that is enough to cancel it.

[EZM]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

Import WCS at a low price and refine in facilities that can actually handle it as feedstock. Export Permian oil at WTI pricing. Genius lol. Except they already do this.

Of course.

WTI is a completely different grade of product, like silky olive oil squeezed from virgins, versus the heavy WCS mud they get from us which came off the farmers mud flaps on his tractor.

Twice as heavy and ten times (or more) as sour - WCS isn't a "high grade" product.

As a result the processing cost are highly differentiated, as is the yield.

If they can turn this mud into domestic product and sell the WTI at premium, why not?

[Art Smeller]

Originally Posted by EZM

WTI is a completely different grade of product, like silky olive oil squeezed from virgins

wow

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by EZM

Of course.

WTI is a completely different grade of product, like silky olive oil squeezed from virgins, versus the heavy WCS mud they get from us which came off the farmers mud flaps on his tractor.

Twice as heavy and ten times (or more) as sour - WCS isn't a "high grade" product.

As a result the processing cost are highly differentiated, as is the yield.

If they can turn this mud into domestic product and sell the WTI at premium, why not?

I've heard the cuts are actually pretty good on fuels with bitumen though. Less light ends I'm guessing.
Our light end cut after Jet A is approx. 35%. Sell it as C5+ condi.
That's on 800-835 density light sweet crude

[Grizzly Adams]

From a Global news article. A buy American policy could be coming that would leave us out in the cold.

Ford, along with premiers of other non-oil producing provinces, fear that if Biden can cancel Keystone XL, he’ll also bring in “Buy America” policies to help the American economy recover from the pandemic. A “Buy America” policy, which Biden has promised on the campaign trail, could freeze out Canadian steel, aluminum, and manufactured goods — something that would cause widespread harm to the Canadian economy.


Grizz

[Red Bullets]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Just as likely because Trump approved the pipeline, and that is enough to cancel it.

Bingo! The cancellation is probably that simple. And it so happens that Kenney and some UPC members are Trumpettes which may have influenced Biden's decision too.

[Sundog57]

Logic has no place in this discussion
Biden's reasons for this are:
1. He can make a virtue stand for a "green economy" - facts have no place in the discussion (or really, any discussion in the media) so arguing that the sands producers have made great strides in reduction of GHG emissions is just so much wind.
2. He can reverse a decision made by the evil Donald showing that things have changed
3. The company that will be damaged by this is Canadian based and the workers who will be displaced are either Canadian or are typically Republican voters.
4. He can oblige US refiners to buy heavy oil domestically or can have it imported by sea - as we have seen in eastern Canada, imports by sea don't draw the attention of the tree huggers, so he can virtue signal with little effect on the final outcome in the US - heavy oil refiners will find product elsewhere, potentially Mexico.
5. Turdo will say in public that he has tried to change the President's mind but we all know that in his virtuous heart that he really believes that the sands should be shut down and nasty Albertans need to be brought to heel, so Biden is doing Turdo a favour, which costs him nothing (and which will undoubtedly have to be repaid) right out of the chute.

From Joe's perspective, what's not to like?

[Bigwoodsman]

Originally Posted by Red Bullets

Bingo! The cancellation is probably that simple. And it so happens that Kenney and some UPC members are Trumpettes which may have influenced Biden's decision too.

Nailed it. If the little cheat wasn't a chest pounding neanderthal, there could very well have been some negotiation and ultimately a line built.

The little cheat has zero negotiating skills. His way of dealing with the unions (I'm not pro union) is to rip up contracts, well because he is the big man on the hill and should be able to do so. But when it happens to him, he has no understanding as to why it has.

BW

ps, I'm not pro union, but when a contract has been negotiated, it should be honoured in good faith.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Bigwoodsman

[/B]

Nailed it. If the little cheat wasn't a chest pounding neanderthal, there could very well have been some negotiation and ultimately a line built.

The little cheat has zero negotiating skills. His way of dealing with the unions (I'm not pro union) is to rip up contracts, well because he is the big man on the hill and should be able to do so. But when it happens to him, he has no understanding as to why it has.

BW

ps, I'm not pro union, but when a contract has been negotiated, it should be honoured in good faith.

Do you honestly believe that Biden would negotiate on Keystone after Trump approved it? Biden is pushing a green agenda, wants to erase anything that Trump was involved with, and it wouldn't matter who represents Alberta.

[Bigwoodsman]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Do you honestly believe that Biden would negotiate on Keystone after Trump approved it? Biden is pushing a green agenda, wants to erase anything that Trump was involved with, and it wouldn't matter who represents Alberta.

You have merit to consider for sure.

BW

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Bigwoodsman

You have merit to consider for sure.

BW

And for the record, I have no more use for Kenny than I had for Scheer, both were just the lesser evil of the options we had.

[Bigwoodsman]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

And for the record, I have no more use for Kenny than I had for Scheer, both were just the lesser evil of the options we had.

Yep!

BW

[fishnguy]

Here is an interesting perspective.

Reuters: Even without Keystone XL, U.S. set for record Canadian oil imports

And main excerpts:

Currently, Canada exports about 3.8 million bpd to the United States, according to U.S. Energy Department data. Analysts expect that to rise to between 4.2 million and 4.4 million bpd over the next few years. Pipeline expansions currently in progress will add more than 950,000 bpd of export capacity for Canadian producers before 2025, according to Rystad Energy.

Canada’s Energy Regulator says there is enough capacity currently to export more than 4 million bpd to the United States.

...

Enbridge Inc’s Line 3 replacement project is in the process of doubling its capacity, which will allow it to deliver about 760,000 bpd of crude from Alberta to Superior, Wisconsin, by the end of this year.

Canada’s government is also expanding the state-owned Trans Mountain line by 590,000 bpd to 890,000 bpd. That line terminates at the Port of Vancouver, where it should be able to deliver barrels via tankers to the United States.

Meanwhile, TC Energy received U.S. approval last year to expand its existing Keystone 590,000-bpd line - located far from the proposed Keystone XL - which would add an additional 170,000 bpd into the U.S. Midwest and Gulf Coast.

“We will be over-piped assuming the other pipelines go ahead on schedule,” said Wood Mackenzie research director Mark Oberstoetter. “If you add them all up, you can make the argument KXL was not needed.”

...

“While the politics around KXL will continue to reverberate for some time, the reality is that western Canada - for the first time in recent memory - may soon reach a juncture at which it has excess oil export capacity,” Rystad Energy’s vice president for North American shale Thomas Liles said in a note.