Another Black Eye for shooters ?

[Grizzly Adams]

Just saw this on the news, apparently Westlock County.

https://globalnews.ca/news/7788148/w...wn-land-abuse/

Grizz

[silvertip]

yup...
saw that, takes just a few to screw it up for others

[curtz]

Yah its west of us, not sure how many fires they've started because they shoot tanerite during dry conditions, one day there carelessness will burn someone's house down. The mess they leave is disgusting. Its close to Edmonton so it gets lots of use.

[Ken07AOVette]

Just fyi-

If the Fire Department is dispatched to a fire that requires the assistance of Provincial Wildfire Management aircraft, here are the charges that will be passed back to you (in addition to any other charges incurred in the suppression of your fire):

Provincial Aircraft Rates (sk):

CL-215 (skimmer) air tanker . . . $5,000/hour plus$80/drop of foam
CL-215 T (skimmer) air tanker . . . $5,000/hour plus$80/drop of foam
CV580 (retardant) air tanker . . $4,500/hour plus$6,500/drop of retardant
CV580 (gel) air tanker . . . $4,500/hourplus $3,600/drop of gel
Bird Dog TC690 (CV580) . . . $2,000/hour
Bird Dog Baron (CL215) . . . $1,500/hour
Helicopter . . $1,200 - $3,000/hour

The decision to light that fire is entirely under your control, the consequences however may not be. Be FireSmart.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by curtz

Yah its west of us, not sure how many fires they've started because they shoot tanerite during dry conditions, one day there carelessness will burn someone's house down. The mess they leave is disgusting. Its close to Edmonton so it gets lots of use.

Is this north of the community hall at the end of Lilly Lake Road? I’ve never heard of it.

[Capt. awesome]

Yes it is

[densa44]

More like pigs with guns. Dangerous too, there are other people using the land.

[Ebrand]

And disgusted.

Yes shooting “reactive” stuff can be fun.

Clean up after yourself and a little bit more.

I won’t even comment on likely how dangerous it is with no backstop and no way to know what is beyond there target area.

Hope they smarten up.

[Gifted Intuitive]

Notice how garbage is being connected to gun owners.

Notice how bullet holes in garbage implies a connection between guns and garbage.

Notice how the sound of a gun can prevent you from eating food.

[wildwoods]

A perfect opportunity for Alberta outdoorsmen to spearhead a clean up. Do it in the name of “shooters who care” or something like that, haul that junk away, and get in the news hopefully. But we’ll never do it. Instead we’ll just whine on the internet...

I’d be down. I have no time to spearhead but I would take my boys for a few hours of cleanup. Would be great to see a local step up and organize.

[Scott N]

Sounds very similar to the "free" range at Sibbald Flats west of Calgary that got shut down due to garbage being left behind and dangerous safety concerns. It's true that gunowners are our own worst enemy. The media jumps all over this kind of stuff.... it makes gunowners look bad, just another "reason" for a full out ban.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by wildwoods

A perfect opportunity for Alberta outdoorsmen to spearhead a clean up. Do it in the name of “shooters who care” or something like that, haul that junk away, and get in the news hopefully. But we’ll never do it. Instead we’ll just whine on the internet...

I’d be down. I have no time to spearhead but I would take my boys for a few hours of cleanup. Would be great to see a local step up and organize.

So would making the news doing a cleanup be a good thing, or would it just bring more attention to what is going on there? And a month after the cleanup, would you even be able to tell that there was a cleanup, if there is as much going on as is being reported? Just cleaning up after these slobs won't accomplish anything, the only way to stop them is to impose huge fines on offenders, and force them to clean up their mess. Put up a $500 reward for reporting them, and fine them $2500 each, and that will stop most people from doing this.

[curtz]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

Is this north of the community hall at the end of Lilly Lake Road? I’ve never heard of it.

Yah north - northwest

[bat119]

Firearm owners have enough problems without some shooting themselves in the foot.
On Global this morning the pictures were really disgusting it does look like a landfill, some casing left behind were handgun brass Global didn't hesitate to point out how dangerous it is to fire handguns erratically and illegally, the rounds were 38 spl and 9mm Global failed to mention they could have been fired from a rifle.
These “sportsmen” are playing right into the Liberals hands

[urban rednek]

This is just the latest chapter in the story of some firearms owners failing to have any common sense or respect for the environment. Sibbald range, McLean Creek PLUZ, multiple locations in the Ghost PLUZ, including the fiasco along the TransAlta Road. Now the Liliy Lake Road...what's next?
Cleaning up after them doesn't work, recent history tells us they double down on their efforts to create the biggest dump. Education, then even more education, enforcement, stiffer fines, and better access to approved firearms ranges will help, but it won't stop the entitled society has created from doing whatever they think they can get away with.

[guysmiley]

Originally Posted by bat119

Firearm owners have enough problems without some shooting themselves in the foot.
On Global this morning the pictures were really disgusting it does look like a landfill, some casing left behind were handgun brass Global didn't hesitate to point out how dangerous it is to fire handguns erratically and illegally, the rounds were 38 spl and 9mm Global failed to mention they could have been fired from a rifle.
These “sportsmen” are playing right into the Liberals hands

I noticed the instant accusation about hand guns as well.... Likely from rifles but let's not miss a chance to vilify.

Of course, if the slobs weren't slobs there wouldn't be a story. People suck I suppose is the moral of the story.

[wildwoods]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

So would making the news doing a cleanup be a good thing, or would it just bring more attention to what is going on there? And a month after the cleanup, would you even be able to tell that there was a cleanup, if there is as much going on as is being reported? Just cleaning up after these slobs won't accomplish anything, the only way to stop them is to impose huge fines on offenders, and force them to clean up their mess. Put up a $500 reward for reporting them, and fine them $2500 each, and that will stop most people from doing this.

I gave a realistic solution. Yours will never happen (unfortunately)

[WolfmanAB]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

So would making the news doing a cleanup be a good thing, or would it just bring more attention to what is going on there? And a month after the cleanup, would you even be able to tell that there was a cleanup, if there is as much going on as is being reported? Just cleaning up after these slobs won't accomplish anything, the only way to stop them is to impose huge fines on offenders, and force them to clean up their mess. Put up a $500 reward for reporting them, and fine them $2500 each, and that will stop most people from doing this.

Agree. Same as appealing to people's "goodness' on texting and driving. Got to nail them hard and fast. I remember once coming back on yellowhead in 2010 or so and it was clogged. The reason is some dumb chick was driving and texting, rammed a guy on a motorcycle into the back of a truck/trailer and he was turned into a mincemeat pie as she was utterly distracted when hitting already stopped traffic. He never saw it coming and dead instantly. She hardly got a scratch and I believe she later denied texting.

[HalfBreed]

So is it cleaned up yet?

[BlackHeart]

Boy is this a twisted story with the full issue not really discussed.

Let me give you an example of why.
Attached are some pictures of a site, on crown land, where we go to shoot on the rare occasion.

We always clean up everything....right down to searching for any missing cases.
BUT.... when we went they one year recently, attached is what we found.

NOW NOTE!!!! THIS IS NOT FROM SHOOTERS. It from a local pig withing their own community. Note that the pictures are of renovation scraps and garage garbage and household stuff. It was nasty.

This is near Opal or Thorhild.

This is going to be a three to four part post for a reason.
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[JareS]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

Just fyi-

If the Fire Department is dispatched to a fire that requires the assistance of Provincial Wildfire Management aircraft, here are the charges that will be passed back to you (in addition to any other charges incurred in the suppression of your fire):

Provincial Aircraft Rates (sk):

CL-215 (skimmer) air tanker . . . $5,000/hour plus$80/drop of foam
CL-215 T (skimmer) air tanker . . . $5,000/hour plus$80/drop of foam
CV580 (retardant) air tanker . . $4,500/hour plus$6,500/drop of retardant
CV580 (gel) air tanker . . . $4,500/hourplus $3,600/drop of gel
Bird Dog TC690 (CV580) . . . $2,000/hour
Bird Dog Baron (CL215) . . . $1,500/hour
Helicopter . . $1,200 - $3,000/hour

The decision to light that fire is entirely under your control, the consequences however may not be. Be FireSmart.

Maybe 20 years ago!

An intermediate goes for $4,000+ per hour, and a Medium, which Sask primarily uses is around $7500-$8000 per hour.

[BlackHeart]

We went home, got a ton of garbage bags, gloves for safety, and masks for the smell. And when out the next few days. This is about 1hr and 15mins from home one way.

Here is the second and final truck load.
And what it looked like cleaned up.

Of note this is area where others go out and plink and shoot and hunt.

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[BlackHeart]

As I mentioned before, there was renovation material.
I am suspecting that this is from a local, as why would someone drive far to dump this stuff and the access is a rough trail and not that well know except for locals. Plus it would take a special kind of idiot to haul his garbage all the way out here and a mile or two down this trail.

So last image.....of note the color of the tin.
This is from either siding or more likely roof as the stove pipes would also indicate. SOOOOO....keep an eye out for someone with the same colour of roof in this area. If they have a wood stove and newer chinney....well draw your own conclusions as to WHO is actually using these areas as a dump.

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[Vook]

Stupid gunowners! They dump matrassess every time they come to shoot!

[Smoky buck]

Definitely lots of garbage and likely majority is not related to target shooting. There is definitely a trash problem with some target shooters too so let’s not turn a blind eye to it just because there is others dumping trash too

[BlackHeart]

In the westlock news pictures the showed a couple of mattresses.
Who actually would take a mattress out shooting....AND be ballsy enough to haul it in broad daylight out to these spots.

I would suggest that its more likely the locals using this area as dump, as well as shooters using it. Bringing out a stove or such to shoot???? Makes no sense. BUT...if its already dumped there.....I can see the immature shooting it up.

When I see places like this, even if it might be a safe spot to do some target practice, I get the hell out of there.....don't want to be blamed for what the local dumping cretins are doing. I do make note of some places to go back to with a specific plan and gear to clean it up if we hunt it.

There is another spot in Thorhild county that we plan to clean up....but its a doosy and we rarely have gone there........we'll get to it one day soon.

I know of a lot of these types of spots on crown land in Thorhild and Westlock county .....and its always the same....appliances, mattresses, renovation material, lawn chairs, yard debris, fridges, freezers, tires, vehicle parts, oil jugs, large metal contraptions, old chicken coops, plus a mix of household garbage for good measure. If I cleaned them all up every time, I would need to be on the payroll full time....a large dump trailer...and not be able to do much hunting.

Parkland county transfer station has a policy of charging for any renovation or yard garbage. Other municipalities have limits or restrictions or charges for appliances.

Our developed county seen fit to provide dumps and such to keep our county clean and tidy. For the most part it has worked...until now.

BUT.....stupid politicians, who waste their budgets on frills, now need ways to bring in extra money. We all, already were paying for these benefit of dumps and clean communities, within our tax base...but that wasn't enough....now they add fees and restrictions. Without a single thought of the fall out.

We have pigs in our society. Lazy one. Cheap adze ones. Self-centered selfish ones. GUESS what they do if they are faced with paying for something like their old appliances or renovation waste. YEP. They dumped them on the side of the road or down a crown land trail.

There is going to be the argument that USER PAY....but we all have already paid once in our taxes.....and the benefits, like good roads, schools and healthcare benefit ALL of society. Why is it any different now with dumps and providing a place for EVERYONE to dump their garbage. We are just going to have to clean it up (and that a lot more work) from where they dump it. Whether this is done by private citizens versus the salaries public workers, it still eventually has to be done.

Maybe a better approach would be to rethink the stupidity of creating deterrences for the pigs, who will then not deal properly deal with their waste versus the current incentives for them to foul our crown land areas....or dump along road sides approaches....which is starting to be come the common thing for those without a capable truck.

[Nayr]

Good on you Blackheart, too bad you didn’t find anything with a name on it. We found garbage dumped on the farm and one box had a delivery tag, a little time on the internet and figured out a phone number. We called the person and even though they denied it they did agree to clean it up and it was.

[HunterDave]

Good on you Blackheart for cleaning up others mess. I agree that shooting and illegal dumping are two separate issues. Dumping happens everywhere not only where people shoot or in the bush, sometimes right in the ditch along Range Roads.

I recently reported a dump site to F&W with hopes of them finding the culprit from a license plate that I found at the scene. I hope that they catch him.

[BlackHeart]

Originally Posted by Nayr

Good on you Blackheart, too bad you didn’t find anything with a name on it. We found garbage dumped on the farm and one box had a delivery tag, a little time on the internet and figured out a phone number. We called the person and even though they denied it they did agree to clean it up and it was.

I was pizzed off when I seen what was done to this crown area. And there were multiple dumping spots in close proximity....so who ever was doing it was a repeat offender. You can't always get into this area if its too muddy, so I imagine he has other dump sites in area....maybe a farmers ditch or approach.

Or the other local easier access/ drier crown site I found and have yet to get to cleaning...its a much larger job. AND it has been used as a shooting site too. I can't stand to see us all loose due to some nitwits or lazy pigs. (Anybody want to help one weekend?....could get your dogs some exercise and shed hunt too.) We need to get ahead of the curve on this issue...before the liberal media spins this the wrong way. Same BS cost us the option of spear hunting, etc,

There were jeans and clothes.....I searched all the pockets. And any other papers I could find for a clue. The plan was to knock on their door and return their garbage...along with some words of encouragement...Especially if the tin matched.

Yay it might sound a bit keyboard warrior sounding, but there needs to be some justice and consequences for this. And we all need to police these areas and make sure these pigs are publicly exposed and humiliated.

[BlackHeart]

[QUOTE=HunterDave;4366593]Good on you Blackheart for cleaning up others mess. I agree that shooting and illegal dumping are two separate issues. Dumping happens everywhere not only where people shoot or in the bush, sometimes right in the ditch along Range Roads.

I recently reported a dump site to F&W with hopes of them finding the culprit from a license plate that I found at the scene. I hope that they catch him.



That looks like mostly metal. Sooo...interesting to note.....Parkland charges for dumping metal at the transfer station. General Scrap pays for scrap metal....some guys make a living picking up scrap and selling it.

Does it make sense that we get charged for something others can make money taking away.....metal should be free to dump at the transfer station at least, as it has value for who hauls it away. So much for the USER PAY argument.

SOOO...why are we charged?? And again....we have a situation where the incentive for the pigs is to dump it on the road side. All because of mismanagement and charging for dumping a valuable commodity. Parkland should be getting a cut of the scrap revenue.......and taking in as much as possible...for free....if they want more income to cover general costs.

Makes no sense at all.....creates the problems we see.