Question for you 7mm users

[bonecollector10]

I shot a bull elk back in september an my first shot was taking at 40 yards with m tikka 7mm and 160 grain winchster nosler. When i skinned the animal i found the bullet which penetrated both lungs and the rib cage but didnt go through the skin/fur on the other side. Is this because i was too close? Is my grain too light? Its not a huge concern i just thought a bigger caliber gun would have ripped right through the elk at that range.

Please let me know your thoughts or similar experiences.

Thanks

[7mmremmag]

I had the exact results from my 7mm rem mag, this year on a cow elk. I shot her with a nosler ballistic tip 150 grain bullet from 324 yards and found the bullet on the opposite side, against the skin. I know why mine didnt pass through is because of the distance she was takin at. But 40 yards theres no reason why you shouldnt have had an exit wound?

[BigJon]

Because it didn't....impact velocity was really high so it did more expanding than penetrating perhaps....either way the bullet performed flawlessly...continue on with the 7 RM and 160 partitions or accubonds...whichever it was you were using..

congrats on the bull!

Much more to do with bullet than calibre.

[ctd]

That is why ballistics is not an exact science. Next time it may go through.
What did the projectile look like when found it?

[Dark]

Put 3 180 grains from my 300 win mag into the boiler room of a bull moose this year found all 3 bullets under the skin on the other side

[TUFFBUFF]

The only bullets I've found are noslers, the x bullets and a frames go through, those are the 3 I use in my 7 RM, all 160gr.
The good thing is it left all it's energy in the animal.

[bonecollector10]

Originally Posted by ctd

That is why ballistics is not an exact science. Next time it may go through.
What did the projectile look like when found it?

it expanded beautifully, looked like a mushroom. I was just puzzled because last year my muley and whitey were taking over 200 yards and both whent through and through. My guess was not enough velocity gain over just 40 yards but what do i no? it dropped thats all the matters

Originally Posted by bonecollector10

it expanded beautifully, looked like a mushroom. I was just puzzled because last year my muley and whitey were taking over 200 yards and both whent through and through. My guess was not enough velocity gain over just 40 yards but what do i no? it dropped thats all the matters

You are never going to have more velocity than at the muzzle. Bullets that strike at high velocities (close range) typically expand violently and rapidly creating more frontal area virtually upon impact and penetration is actually reduced (more friction). The only TSX I've ever recovered was from a kudu shot at 20 yards. The first one from 406 was a pass through. What you experienced is pretty typical of a close range shot.

[Juicy]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

You are never going to have more velocity than at the muzzle. Bullets that strike at high velocities (close range) typically expand violently and rapidly creating more frontal area virtually upon impact and penetration is actually reduced (more friction). The only TSX I've ever recovered was from a kudu shot at 20 yards. The first one from 406 was a pass through. What you experienced is pretty typical of a close range shot.

I agree with sheep hunter on this one, I shot a large bull elk at 30 yards and it never made a complete pass through. I think at that close of a range the velocity is the greatest therefore you have more expansion on the bullet. When you are shooting out at longer distances the bullet becomes like a steel rod and more so punches through the animal as opposed to expanding as it would at a close distance.

[Cal]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Much more to do with bullet than calibre.

X2 I once shot a bull moose at somewhere around 100 yards, I had no exit wound but the bullet went through both shoulder blades and was under the hide on the far side. My kill shot was in the neck and taken from about 15 yards, no exit wound. I shot a deer at 200 yards a few years back and ran him through end to end so somthing like 5-6 feet of penetration, once again my kill shot taken from close range did not pass through. Like TJ's second post said, very typical short range performance.

Another odd thing I've noticed on close range shots is that bullets have tendancy to change directions after hitting the animal while still in it. Bullets are designed to perform well at a certain velocity. Muzzle velocity often exceeds the intended velocity at which the bullet is designed to perform well, therefore close range performance is often erratic.

[Young Eldon]

Yup!!!
I shot a bull elk in the neck while he was standing broadside at 17 steps - with my 375 H&H. The bullet was sitting under the hide on the far side!!! It tipped over and traveled along a couple vertebrae but never exited.

[32-40win]

I've used Partitions for 30 yrs now, only ever recovered 3 bullets, one on a moose from a 7-08 @ 100yds, one on a whitey at 40 yds head-on from a 338wimag that travelled about a foot down the center of the spine, and another one from a moose thru the hoop at about 150yds out of a 7mm rem mag.

[Grizzly Adams]

Originally Posted by Young Eldon

Yup!!!
I shot a bull elk in the neck while he was standing broadside at 17 steps - with my 375 H&H. The bullet was sitting under the hide on the far side!!! It tipped over and traveled along a couple vertebrae but never exited.

That hide is tough. Saw a video once, that claimed you could see the hide bouncing out and back, as the bullet impacted it, from the inside. I use Hornady 160grn. in my 7 mm and usually find them just under the hide on the far side. This is a good thing.
Grizz

[Cal]

Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams

That hide is tough. Saw a video once, that claimed you could see the hide bouncing out and back, as the bullet impacted it, from the inside. I use Hornady 160grn. in my 7 mm and usually find them just under the hide on the far side. This is a good thing.
Grizz

That hide sure is tough, especily if its got mud all over it like moose sometimes do in the early season. I read Mr Nosler was inspired to create his partition bullet because on several ocasions he had his 300 wby mag bullets completely explode when dealing with moose covered with mud at close ranges. I tend to think that if he shot a 30-06 instead of a 300 wby the partition bullet might have been invented by someone else though, more velolocity doesnt always mean more penetration.

[Pioneer2]

At which point of the animals death did the bullet fail? That's what they are designed to do.A 6.5x55 with 160gr handloads always exited moose I shot but then again they are drills...............your bullet selection is fine .........Harold

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Cal

That hide sure is tough, especily if its got mud all over it like moose sometimes do in the early season. I read Mr Nosler was inspired to create his partition bullet because on several ocasions he had his 300 wby mag bullets completely explode when dealing with moose covered with mud at close ranges. I tend to think that if he shot a 30-06 instead of a 300 wby the partition bullet might have been invented by someone else though, more velolocity doesnt always mean more penetration.

In fact the partition is simply a brand name - the H mantel bullet design, which the partition basicley is, was being used in Europe long before Nosler started making them.
Cat

[Traps]

Most bullets have maximum penetration at the velocity that just causes deformation - usually 1800-2000 fps. The faster you drive the bullet or in this case the closer you are the more the bullet deforms. When the bullet deforms and for this excercise I'll assume its a perfect mushroom the frontal area increases exponentially. (area of a circle is 0.25 x pi x radius x radius)
This exponentially large frontal area meets exponentially higher resistance causing much less penetration.

Possibly with some bullets but with other bullets there is a maximum diameter they can expand to. The TSX is a good example. In that case it's the rapid expansion that causes the rapid deceleration...not the size. Even with cup and core bullets, shedding starts to happen at a certain point so frontal area may actually be reduced.

[Traps]

The TSX will exhibit the same penetration characteristics upto a certain threshold velocity, then they lose their petals and much of its surface area, resistance goes down and they pencil hole from there on. At high speeds that don't reach that threshold velocity where the petals shed the TSX will rapidly decelerate because of its rapid expansion, they go hand in hand.

On a cup and core bullet in order to shed weight it expands, shards, flattens, and rolls back, peeling off in plastic flow and if there is enough plastic flow chunks come off to expose the shank of the bullet. Its during this expansion
that most resitance occurs and by that point its already lost most of its poop.

[Traps]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

In that case it's the rapid expansion that causes the rapid deceleration...not the size.

If a bullet rapidly expands it increases in size.....rapid expansion is larger size.

Originally Posted by Traps

If a bullet rapidly expands it increases in size.....rapid expansion is larger size.

Yup but my point was is that there is a maximum size it can expand to and that maximum size can be reached through a wide velocity envelope. The frontal area has some impact on penetration depth but at close range, it's the speed at which that frontal area is achieved that thwarts penetration.

[elkhunter11]

Penetration is determined by a combination of the rate of expansion,and the amount of expansion.As for the TSX,I have had the .308" TSX expand to .800",and no petals were lost.Many people believe that the TSX will not expand that much,and that it will not retain all of the petals with impact velocities above 3000fps.The TSX below was fired at 3380fps with an impact velocity of over 3000 fps.

[double gun]

This is a pre-TSX barnes after connecting with a whitetail at about 50yrds. It was a 338 - 160gr with a muzzel velocity just under 3300 fps. As you can see 2 petals are gone, and the third one was very close to leaving aswell. However it messed up a lot of bone and at high velocity.