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  #121  
Old 09-22-2013, 10:41 AM
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This thread, like every other thread dealing with the education system and those who work in it, has been derailed long ago by clowns who have a hobby horse about bashing teachers.

Before I go any further, let me say I don't disagree about there being completely useless teachers that the system makes it basically impossible to get rid of. This is unfortunate, but it's a fact of the world we live in. I think you'd all agree there are doctors, optometrists, lawyers, and any number of occupations with incompetent practitioners. But ranting about it does not help someone who is experiencing a problem related to their child and their school.

My advice to Redfrog, and it's in black and white, was to continue to advocate for his G/D, not go in with guns blazing looking for a pound of flesh, and try to arrive at a reasonable solution. That makes sense.

Somewhere along the way the thread morphed into a Ritalin debate. On Friday I took the time to speak with a paediatrician about diagnosing ADHD and the use of meds to help a child in the class. His opinion is that family doctors are not qualified to do this on their own. It should be a concerted effort between parents and the school, because it is where kids spend so much of their time. If it is deemed a real problem that is interfering with the child's learning and the family dynamic in the home, then, in concert, the school can seek out a psycho-educational assessment, an in-depth battery of tests carried about by a registered psychologist that holistically looks at the child's emotional and learning wellness. Based on the results of those tests, the child would then be sent to a medical doctor, hopefully a paediatrician, and/or psychiatrist to see if their diagnosis agrees with that of the educational psychologist. In this scenario, the only role of a teacher is providing anecdotal feedback. Nothing more. Nothing less.

This is how the system is intended to work. As a parent, you need to know what the system can and cannot, as well as should and should not do. Are there instances where it doesn't work this way? For sure. But who's job is it to advocate for, and have the ultimate say, in the child's life. The parents.

Don't ever let anyone prescribe any kind of medication for a child unless you have received all the professional input that your tax dollars pay for. If you don't, it's your fault.

Having said all that, Ritalin has a place in the doctor's arsenal to treat children who genuinely have ADHD in such a way that it impedes their ability to be all they can be, both in the class, and outside the class.

I agree that prescription meds, you choose which category, are way over-used in our society. But those who need them, genuinely need them.

In my career I have suggested a psych-educational assessment once.

And I don't phone parents in the first two weeks of the school year other than to introduce myself and open the door for communication throughout the year.

Finally, if your child finds themselves in a truly crumby class, and changing schools is not an option, remember this bit of advice I was given in my first year of teaching, "No teacher, in ten months, will turn a diamond into a lump of coal. And no teacher, in ten months, will turn a lump of coal into a diamond."

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PS: I voted Wild Rose too

Last edited by sns2; 09-22-2013 at 10:47 AM.
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  #122  
Old 09-22-2013, 11:05 AM
raised by wolves raised by wolves is offline
 
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Across the province the schools need more money for resources and operating costs, smaller class sizes, and more teachers to accommodate the smaller class size. My son's school is barely afloat as far as money is concerned. I am quite sure they are operating in the red even after cutting teaching and Ed assistant positions, cutting programs, and increasing class sizes.

Isn't it amazing that the current government was elected based on being quite vocal about smaller class size, putting more money into the schools for increased and improved resources, operational costs, salaries, and pension issues. They were wonderful promises solely intended to get the votes. But, after the same elected leaders gave themselves a significant raise, there was suddenly no follow through on the campaign promises. Just a broad statement that we must all cut back.

So, now we have increased class sizes; significantly larger in some places, and a push for Inclusion of all special needs within the same packed classrooms. So, referencing back to my son's classroom, the teacher has less time for individualized instruction or one-to-one assistance as she is spending her time on behaviour management of 5 inclusion kids that likely need either a dose from the pharmacy or at very least, a smaller a d specialized classroom setting which is not possible because of decreased funding.

I feel your pain Red, but WE voted the problem in and we fail to challenge the government on this matter.
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  #123  
Old 09-22-2013, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bessiedog View Post
I have come to the conclusion that no child should be medicated to be 'normal' in a classroom.

Classrooms are not normal learning places for humans. Not enough stimulation.
You guys should read the research on 'ADHD' kids that dpend time in the wild... See how normal they become.

History will judge the 'age of drugging the classroom' very harshly.

Mark my words.

Keep classes below 20. Get kids outside lots. Get the 'special' kids special help ( though I think 'special' is still an extremely difficult thing to do.

Actually give teachers special and gifted kid training in university.
That might help.


Oh... And parents.... Teaching your child is actually your job. Not the States. We grumble about how incompetent government is, yet we give our most precious over to them and ignore what goes on... Bit risky no?

I've got a constant adult/parent open door policy in my classroom. Your taxes. Your kids. Your welcome in here any time. Please come in and help me teach these kids....

Go hang in the classroom Red. It's your right in my opinion.


I sure hope that the rest of the school system will come on side with your conclusion. Drugging kids to normalize them is an atrocious act. These kids are our jewels and simply need the right style of polishing to shine.

The kids I know that have been FORCED to take drugs in order to attend school have simply been hyperactive and/or very inquisitive. Every one of these kids told me that the drugs make them feel like a zombie. Their minds and bodies work differently than the "Average" kid. These are the type of people that can produce "different" ideas and actions that may change the world in a positive way. New concepts do not come from repeating the norm.

Making zombies out of children for the sake of a homogenized environment shows a lack of true intellect within the school system.


Today, Young Einstein would be medicated for daydreaming....
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  #124  
Old 09-22-2013, 12:50 PM
greylynx greylynx is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walking buffalo View Post


Today, Young Einstein would be medicated for daydreaming....
Young Einstein before Ritalin.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEL_BT_Z6Yg
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  #125  
Old 09-22-2013, 12:59 PM
TBD TBD is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bessiedog View Post
I have come to the conclusion that no child should be medicated to be 'normal' in a classroom.

Classrooms are not normal learning places for humans. Not enough stimulation.
You guys should read the research on 'ADHD' kids that dpend time in the wild... See how normal they become.

History will judge the 'age of drugging the classroom' very harshly.

Mark my words.

Keep classes below 20. Get kids outside lots. Get the 'special' kids special help ( though I think 'special' is still an extremely difficult thing to do.

Actually give teachers special and gifted kid training in university.
That might help.


Oh... And parents.... Teaching your child is actually your job. Not the States. We grumble about how incompetent government is, yet we give our most precious over to them and ignore what goes on... Bit risky no?

I've got a constant adult/parent open door policy in my classroom. Your taxes. Your kids. Your welcome in here any time. Please come in and help me teach these kids....

Go hang in the classroom Red. It's your right in my opinion.
Like !
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  #126  
Old 09-22-2013, 01:29 PM
greylynx greylynx is offline
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Many years ago when Ritalin was beginning to be the "avant garde" classroom management tool I had a discussion with the late Johnny Bright over some crayfish and pig tails in gravy.

Johnny Bright figured that he could solve the majority of the hyperactivity problems in students through physical activity.

Johnny had hyperactive kids that were sent to "the office" do laps around the school yard. In fact Johnny had his principals office designed so he could watch out the window and make sure. those bundles of energy were actually running.

His theory seemed to work.
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  #127  
Old 09-23-2013, 08:59 PM
Nester Nester is offline
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  #128  
Old 09-23-2013, 09:13 PM
billie billie is offline
 
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^^^^^WOW, Great find and post Nester.

Massive statement, Kudos.
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  #129  
Old 09-23-2013, 09:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bessiedog View Post
I have come to the conclusion that no child should be medicated to be 'normal' in a classroom.

Classrooms are not normal learning places for humans. Not enough stimulation.
You guys should read the research on 'ADHD' kids that dpend time in the wild... See how normal they become.

History will judge the 'age of drugging the classroom' very harshly.

Mark my words.

Keep classes below 20. Get kids outside lots. Get the 'special' kids special help ( though I think 'special' is still an extremely difficult thing to do.

Actually give teachers special and gifted kid training in university.
That might help.


Oh... And parents.... Teaching your child is actually your job. Not the States. We grumble about how incompetent government is, yet we give our most precious over to them and ignore what goes on... Bit risky no?

I've got a constant adult/parent open door policy in my classroom. Your taxes. Your kids. Your welcome in here any time. Please come in and help me teach these kids....

Go hang in the classroom Red. It's your right in my opinion.
Excellent point. This thread shows the difference between questioning authority and oppositional defiance. Interesting
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