Teachurs Bah!!!

[marxman]

Originally Posted by Big Thumper

Actually, by definition its not at least 50% of teachers are average at best, its EXACTLY 50% are 'average' or less. No matter what you mean (excuse the pun) to measure teachers by all normally distributed data will conform to this simple truth. This is also true with whatever criteria you use to measure ALL other occupations( including being a grandpa )
So, over the course of time one can expect a fair share of below average teachers and a fair share of above average, maybe even one or two well above average.

This very simple truth was taught to me by one well above average teacher in grade 11. Thank you Mr Stuart.

not true maybe your math teacher was of the small percentage of teachers so below average they make the majority of teachers above average

[Big Thumper]

Originally Posted by Redfrog

Of course all of that is true as I have already stated. I also said that I was in the top 2% of Great grampas, unless you check with my G/D who will inform you that I am actually the Best and the smartest Grampa

The 50% rule also applies to the profession of student, which does make things difficult for the teaching professionals.
I hope she is correct, because if you are only 98th percentile as you claim , that means that there are tens of millions of grandchildren with a better grandpa(s) than you.

[Big Thumper]

Originally Posted by marxman

not true maybe your math teacher was of the small percentage of teachers so below average they make the majority of teachers above average

I'd love to be corrected. Its simple math we've all been taught if we made it to high school. He was a great teacher and was very much appreciated by his students.

[bessiedog]

I haven't really read all this. I been huntin!

Even I'm gettin tired of these threads.
Red
Go meet the teach. It don't matter if your a grampa. Ask a few questions, listen lots.... Then react.

We teachers are human and if mistakes are made.... Advocate till you get what you want.

Your a smart man. Just give a little respect, and expect the same back.

We serve the public... And your John Q public.

Good luck.

Ps.. Me and Wunderlab got some nice birdies today!

[marxman]

Originally Posted by Big Thumper

I'd love to be corrected. Its simple math we've all been taught if we made it to high school. He was a great teacher and was very much appreciated by his students.

dont really get what you mean here but what i meant was the majority of a set may be and probably is less than or greater than average of that set

[Big Thumper]

Originally Posted by marxman

dont really get what you mean here but what i meant was the majority of a set may be and probably is less than or greater than average of that set

Then you are incorrect. By definition, normally distributed data will be 50% above and 50% below the average whether you are speaking average as mean, median or mode (grade 8 math, if I recall correctly). The mean, median and mode in a large enough sample with be the same and are the average. Again, thank you Mr Stuart for teaching us all well so we know this simple fact.

[marxman]

Originally Posted by Big Thumper

Then you are incorrect. By definition, normally distributed data will be 50% above and 50% below the average whether you are speaking average as mean, median or mode (grade 8 math, if I recall correctly). The mean, median and mode in a large enough sample with be the same and are the average. Again, thank you Mr Stuart for teaching us all well so we know this simple fact.

yes, the distribution of data maybe the distribution is not normal in this case if 20 people got 100 percent on a test and the guy who didnt show up got zero 20 out of 21 people would be above average im not nitpicking here saying 50 percent are always above or below average is almost always wrong

[Big Thumper]

Originally Posted by marxman

yes, the distribution of data maybe the distribution is not normal in this case if 20 people got 100 percent on a test and the guy who didnt show up got zero 20 out of 21 people would be above average im not nitpicking here saying 50 percent are always above or below average is almost always wrong

Only because your sample size is too small to be normally distributed data. BTW, if the mode is the measure used in your case then 20 of the 21 are exactly average.
Any measure of Alberta teachers, or Canadian teachers, or teachers worldwide would be , almost certainly, a normal data curve.

[marxman]

Originally Posted by Big Thumper

Only because your sample size is too small to be normally distributed data. BTW, if the mode is the measure used in your case then 20 of the 21 are exactly average.

my math is grade 10 not 11 but its always worked for me and we are not talking about discrete data we are talking about data distributed by teacher

[Redfrog]

Thanks guys. I'll pass that math info along to the six year old, I posted about.


Very helpful.

[1899b]

Originally Posted by Redfrog

I know there are some teachers on board here and I'm sure we all know some good ones and a few great ones. I had good teachers in school and some real duds. Guess which classes the students did well in. Same student, different teacher, different result.

My kids are long done school. one was a genius, who worked her butt off to be one. One was brilliant but only average in school. And the youngest made the teachers earn every penny of their wages.

I'm reliving the school thing now through the eyes of my perfect grandkids. The eldest started grade one this year and the teach has already had my daughter in for a 'talk'.

Seems this poor overworked and obviously underskilled grade one teacher had to repeat an assignment to my G/D because she got bored and wasn't paying attention.

Her solution was a parent teacher conference, remove privileges and maintain a close vigil for signs of ADD.

The kid is 6 and has been in school for two weeks.

I spend a lot of time with this child and she is very smart and is constantly looking to be challenged. I'm not saying she is perfect because she's my G/D. I'm saying she is extremely well behaved, respectful and thirsty to learn.

Too bad she got stuck with a mediocre teacher who thinks her job is to baby sit.

I'm not talking about an unruly child or behavior problems, I'm talking about a teacher who can't motivate or challenge a child and is too inept to see the problem.

BTW I taught adults for a G.E.D. for a couple years. I know the difference between constipation and motivation.

Very well said Red. My son is 6 and in grade 1 as well. My daughter is 10 and in grade 5. I totally agree with u. Two weeks and a meeting with the teacher already? Please.. Ridiculous. With that said, I do feel for the teachers that have class populations of 30 and upwards. I was an elementary student in the 80's and I always new if the class was larger than 25, the teacher better be an allstar or it was going to be a long year.........

[TBD]

Originally Posted by Big Thumper

Then you are incorrect. By definition, normally distributed data will be 50% above and 50% below the average whether you are speaking average as mean, median or mode (grade 8 math, if I recall correctly). The mean, median and mode in a large enough sample with be the same and are the average. Again, thank you Mr Stuart for teaching us all well so we know this simple fact.

Originally Posted by marxman

my math is grade 10 not 11 but its always worked for me and we are not talking about discrete data we are talking about data distributed by teacher

20 % of the teachers do 80 % of the teaching !

the rest maize will volunteer down at the mustard seed ....

[billie]

Originally Posted by TBD

20 % of the teachers do 80 % of the teaching !

the rest maize will volunteer down at the mustard seed ....

I'm guessing you had one of the other 80% from somewhere in the American mid-west.

[260 Rem]

Just a couple of observations...first, the "average" argument is flawed in the it seems to assume that "below average" means incompetent. Not so, as from an operational perspective, all teachers that hold valid teaching certificates are competent. On a scale of 1 -10, that would place all teachers above 5/10...so, on the ten point scale, the application of the term "below average" would apply only to those who fall between 5 - 7 on the scale. Still pretty darn respectable. Yup, same reasoning applies to surgeons, priests, and journeymen of all stripes in the trades.
Second, I enjoyed the comment regarding the forum teachers ganging up on some poor grandpa whose only sin was to dump on teachers. It used to be a lot more fun when teachers knew their place and didn't fight back. One more time, the usual antagonists and protagonists show up in the playground to duke it out....and who would have guessed that teachers can fight?
I think we should spread our collective wisdom around and feature a different occupational category every week. Maybe start week one talking about welders after a weld broke, or electricians after a light bulb failed (or even worse, installed a 75W bulb when a 50W bulb would have done the job).

[theycallmeNoah]

I don't really want to get into the teacher debate but I will tell you my nephew's story.

Teacher "A" thought Tyler had ADHD wanted him seen by a doctor and drugged.

Teacher "B" thought hmmmmm there is more to this

Results: Tyler is gifted and bored. Things were put in place to help him.

Teacher A was wrong but her concerns led to something good.

I really do believe that most teachers want the best for their students but I do also believe that there a some bad ones too. Just like in every profession.

[TBD]

Originally Posted by 260 Rem

Just a couple of observations...first, the "average" argument is flawed in the it seems to assume that "below average" means incompetent. Not so, as from an operational perspective, all teachers that hold valid teaching certificates are competent. On a scale of 1 -10, that would place all teachers above 5/10...so, on the ten point scale, the application of the term "below average" would apply only to those who fall between 5 - 7 on the scale. Still pretty darn respectable.

Didn’t expect much from a parasitic centrist view point ( ... and quite frankly was expecting some ideas), but I have to ask you - How did you factor in for the rampant CHEATING that goes on in the Education departments these days ?

Originally Posted by 260 Rem

Second, I enjoyed the comment regarding the forum teachers ganging up on some poor grandpa whose only sin was to dump on teachers. It used to be a lot more fun when teachers knew their place and didn't fight back. One more time, the usual antagonists and protagonists show up in the playground to duke it out....and who would have guessed that teachers can fight?

In RedFrog’s OP he was describing his experience with his GD's teacher, (your side) the teachers leveled blame FIRST -- with a 6 yr old !! then NEXT the parents ....

Originally Posted by 260 Rem

I think we should spread our collective wisdom around and feature a different occupational category every week. Maybe start week one talking about welders after a weld broke, or electricians after a light bulb failed (or even worse, installed a 75W bulb when a 50W bulb would have done the job).

Is that the level of importance you place on educating our youth, Unbelievable ! We’re talking about Canada’s future – maybe you don’t want to listen but every ones got a say in this ! You and your colleagues missed an excellent PR opportunity – instead you chose to jump in the “box” and throw sand !


TBD

Originally Posted by billie

I'm guessing you had one of the other 80% from somewhere in the American mid-west.

PS .... Billie - by your response I'm guessing your a former roofer ? ( no offense to roofers )

PPS .... innovative computer technologies like Khan's Academy (go online and google) are an excellent resource for you struggling parents and it's FREE .... MY guess is our teachers will be using it more and more in classes to TEACH so that they can get back to babysitting and playing on AO !

[billie]

Originally Posted by TBD

PS .... Billie - by your response I'm guessing your a former roofer ? ( no offense to roofers )

It doesn't surprise me that the irony of criticizing teachers using "corn" was lost on you.

swish


I only know one roofer, he owns the company. I'm sure he wouldn't be offended in any way, since you said "no offense to roofers".

PS ....it's "you're"

[TBD]

... I mean't the short version for "my as well" get with it man !


and it 's midwest !

TBD


PS ... I love you guys ! No time to help Johnny with his Math, spelling and grammar lessons on AO - FREE ALL DAY LONG !

[trigger7mm]

I work for a school division, and am in and out of over 20 different schools at any one time. There are some good teachers out there, but believe me when I say this, there are some real duds as well. I've seen some with such a lack of common sense, that it makes one wonder how these people can be trusted to educate our children!!

[walking buffalo]

Is there a drug therapy program for below average teachers?

[Redfrog]

Anyone have the number for the senior's abuse hotline?

260 Rem. don't it just frost your avacados when you ask some one thew time and they waste yours telling you how to build a friggin' time machine.

IMHO the teacher made a bad call in assessing the issue and assigning a solution. I don't think she should have to write lines, or go back to school herself. IO simply think she missed the train on this one.

It has served to put me on full alert in case the barbarians are indeed on the ramparts.

All my other comments about over paid, underworked, below average were simply observations from my POV. YMMD.

The fact that several teachers leapt into the fray with copious excuses and imaginary scenarios only reinforces my thinking that some teachers are below par, and some are underpaid and over worked.

The latter are the ones I would like teaching my grandkids. It's not rocket surgery. Why would I want less than the best for these kids?

There could be any number of reasons why she dropped the ball. It is only strike one.

[260 Rem]

Whoa there boys --- slow down on the 260 critique -- If you go back and read my posts in this thread, you'll see I never made any comments regarding Red's grandkids situation...jeeze, could it be possible that some people have such a teacher mad on that they just spew nasty at all educators? Makes me feel soooo bad, that I'm thinking of staying away from any future "teacher pile ons". Ok, thought about it ...I'll stay a while.
Now, back to the fray, and to reset the idea that teachers prescribe Ritalyn or other stuff to dope kids up...nope, doctors do all the prescribing and last time I checked, there was no direct communication between a Dr and any teacher. The only people in that examining room is Johnny and his parents. The only people filling prescriptions are the parents. Unless things have changed, nobody gets treatment forced upon their kids.

[silver]

Originally Posted by hal53

see Silver???...google is your friend!.....

I probably know more Aspergers than most, thought this might be a teaching moment. Thank you FM.

[Walleye Willy]

It's funny that the "experts" posting their views in this thread can't spell. Maybe they should have paid more attention in school.

[trophyboy]

Kinda strange that my kids are the only ones who have to apologize to their teacher or their bus driver when they get *****. Maybe that's why they have respect for others and excel in school and maybe that's why everyone says that my kids are the nicest kids they've ever seen.

Everyone else always blames someone else and teachers are an easy target. In today's messed up world with so many horrible so-called parents and so many broken homes, it will be interesting to see how fkd up the next generation will be.......it's already showing,........but then I guess we can always blame the teachers for not disciplining our kids now can't we.

Hypocrites bashing teachers are sure a dime a dozen these days. If it weren't for teachers you wouldn't be writing on here or were you geniuses self-taught?...probably!

Maybe have a look in the mirror because whatever it is you do I'm sure we can all pick your profession apart as well. Just sayin!

[marxman]

my granddaughter is grade 2 french immersion i have no idea what they are doing there she likes it though

[Redfrog]

Originally Posted by trophyboy

Kinda strange that my kids are the only ones who have to apologize to their teacher or their bus driver when they get *****. Maybe that's why they have respect for others and excel in school and maybe that's why everyone says that my kids are the nicest kids they've ever seen.

Everyone else always blames someone else and teachers are an easy target. In today's messed up world with so many horrible so-called parents and so many broken homes, it will be interesting to see how fkd up the next generation will be.......it's already showing,........but then I guess we can always blame the teachers for not disciplining our kids now can't we.

Hypocrites bashing teachers are sure a dime a dozen these days. If it weren't for teachers you wouldn't be writing on here or were you geniuses self-taught?...probably!

Maybe have a look in the mirror because whatever it is you do I'm sure we can all pick your profession apart as well. Just sayin!

Trophyboy, take a breath. Who are the hypocrites? Where can you buy a dozen for a dime? Do you even know what that means?

My OP was about one instance with one teacher, not all teachers. I also said some teachers were excellent. Why do you find it so hard to believe that some are duds?

Why are teachers easy targets. And not knocking your kids, but if like you say they have respect for others and excel at school and are the nicest kids, why would they be the "ONLY" ones who HAVE to apologize for their behavior on the bus and in the class?

[Big Daddy Badger]

Originally Posted by Redfrog

I know there are some teachers on board here and I'm sure we all know some good ones and a few great ones. I had good teachers in school and some real duds. Guess which classes the students did well in. Same student, different teacher, different result.

My kids are long done school. one was a genius, who worked her butt off to be one. One was brilliant but only average in school. And the youngest made the teachers earn every penny of their wages.

I'm reliving the school thing now through the eyes of my perfect grandkids. The eldest started grade one this year and the teach has already had my daughter in for a 'talk'.

Seems this poor overworked and obviously underskilled grade one teacher had to repeat an assignment to my G/D because she got bored and wasn't paying attention.

Her solution was a parent teacher conference, remove privileges and maintain a close vigil for signs of ADD.

The kid is 6 and has been in school for two weeks.

I spend a lot of time with this child and she is very smart and is constantly looking to be challenged. I'm not saying she is perfect because she's my G/D. I'm saying she is extremely well behaved, respectful and thirsty to learn.

Too bad she got stuck with a mediocre teacher who thinks her job is to baby sit.

I'm not talking about an unruly child or behavior problems, I'm talking about a teacher who can't motivate or challenge a child and is too inept to see the problem.

BTW I taught adults for a G.E.D. for a couple years. I know the difference between constipation and motivation.

Oh no...another teacher cum doctor.

Thats happens...a lot.

Next they'll refer you to a doctor they know... one whose mainstay is writting Rx for Ritalin...if you resist... its child welfare.

Seriously...I know a couple folks that went through this already.
Half the kids in some towns are chemically neutered right now....due to crusaiding teachers.


I'd be jumping on that fast... theres a million doctors that know daydreaming and even actinmg up is normal in kids and many would love to be the thorn in the side of a Ritalin physician.
Once done... most doctors are loath to disagree with a colleges previous assessment....it is professional suicide....so get there before they do

[bessiedog]

I have come to the conclusion that no child should be medicated to be 'normal' in a classroom.

Classrooms are not normal learning places for humans. Not enough stimulation.
You guys should read the research on 'ADHD' kids that dpend time in the wild... See how normal they become.

History will judge the 'age of drugging the classroom' very harshly.

Mark my words.

Keep classes below 20. Get kids outside lots. Get the 'special' kids special help ( though I think 'special' is still an extremely difficult thing to do.

Actually give teachers special and gifted kid training in university.
That might help.


Oh... And parents.... Teaching your child is actually your job. Not the States. We grumble about how incompetent government is, yet we give our most precious over to them and ignore what goes on... Bit risky no?

I've got a constant adult/parent open door policy in my classroom. Your taxes. Your kids. Your welcome in here any time. Please come in and help me teach these kids....

Go hang in the classroom Red. It's your right in my opinion.

[Redfrog]

Thanks for that. Very refreshing.

I have some first hand experience with kids and add and adhd and ritalin. when i have more time I'll post it, but that is a whole other story.