Teachurs Bah!!!

[260 Rem]

Sounds to me that 's classrooms are just like life on the outside in the adult world - perhaps there is some boredom in some jobs - perhaps not everybody progesses through their career on an ever rising trajectory -perhaps there are people you don't get along with -perhaps the boss is not among the best bosses? We all want the best for our children and a expect even more for our grandchildren.
I sometimes wonder what the final effect of "helicopter parents" will have on society. Does anybody let kids solve any problems on their own or cope with problems? As parents, it is time to take a look at ourselves and what we are creating. Try this test and see what happens---- you have two kids, give them five marbles and leave them alone. Today, there is a good chance they will be still standing there in five minutes, waiting for you to organize a game. Fifty years ago, you would have come back to find they were playing a game (or at least using the marbles in their slingshots).

[Sporty]

Originally Posted by biggyJ

Teaching is an interesting profession. If all they had to do was teach then I would agree it would be an extremely over-paid profession.

However this is not reality. Today's teacher is much more than a simple teacher of reading, writing and arithmetic. Today's teacher is expected by society to be:

Psychologist
Nurse
Nutritionist
Counsellor
Coach
Beauracratic paper shuffler
Social worker
Bathroom attendant
Crossing guard
role model
Motivational speaker
And in some cases the parent figure.

All of this is added to the fact that each of these jobs needs to be applied to each student in their class differently.

It is a tough job, with many different hats worn in a given day. Things will go wrong, mistakes will be made, and as soon as it does you have a parent who is all to willing to defend their child right or wrong.

I am sorry your G/D had one small negative outcome, but I bet that in her long career as a student she will have many positive ones. She will learn to fall in love with reading, see the wonders of science, and find the satisfaction in finally 'getting' division. She will go on field trips, play sports with her friends and in the end will probably never remember getting in trouble for not paying attention one time.

Well said, teachers can't simply go into class and teach, they have a dozen different occupations tied into that one position. If people actually started raising their own kids at home instead of expecting the school system to do it for them, maybe teachers could do their job and teach.

[Dacotensis]

All those pd days the teachurs get are for learning to deal with today's student.

I know I never had so many days off from school back when I was in.

Todays teacher should be more equipped. It stands to reason as its in their contract.

[MrDave]

Originally Posted by Sporty

Well said, teachers can't simply go into class and teach, they have a dozen different occupations tied into that one position. If people actually started raising their own kids at home instead of expecting the school system to do it for them, maybe teachers could do their job and teach.

Lots of them now. Easier to blame a teacher than accept the fact your child is messed up. Simply put, parents have not passed on vital skills. Now 3I generations later we have kids turning into murderers in junior high. Kids have to be taught what respect is.

[recce43]

teachers do a good job in the most part ... Parents need to start parenting there kids..discipline ,respect is what alot of kids lax

[mooseknuckle]

Originally Posted by recce43

teachers do a good job in the most part ... Parents need to start parenting there kids..discipline ,respect is what alot of kids lax

Of course now a days discipline is a whole different thing than a generation ago, I spanked my kid at the park 2 years ago for throwing sand in another kids face. The kids mom called the cops on me..... seriously. Don't get me wrong there is rarely a reason to resort to physical discipline, in this case however I feel it was called for. And there in lies a problem as well, how long till someone calls me out for it? And wants to dictate how I should or shouldn't discipline. Society has turned into a bunch of Pu$$ies if you ask me.

[FishingMOM]

Originally Posted by mooseknuckle

Of course now a days discipline is a whole different thing than a generation ago, I spanked my kid at the park 2 years ago for throwing sand in another kids face. The kids mom called the cops on me..... seriously. Don't get me wrong there is rarely a reason to resort to physical discipline, in this case however I feel it was called for. And there in lies a problem as well, how long till someone calls me out for it? And wants to dictate how I should or shouldn't discipline. Society has turned into a bunch of Pu$$ies if you ask me.

Some parents parent, some parents are buddies/best friend with their kids.
You and your wife are like me and Parent your kids.

You are right society is full of Pu$$ies.

I gave the school what for the other day for issuing stinky a bandaid for a bruise. It wasnt a small finger sized bandage, but one large enough to cover a full knee......... all for a bruise on his thigh.

As for teachers, I seem to find that the Male teachers are generally better for us than female teachers and we are 2 and 2 so far.

[260 Rem]

OMG FM, not the wrong size bandage issue rearing its ugly head again? One would think by now, teachers could have had this under control.

[Redfrog]

Originally Posted by 260 Rem

OMG FM, not the wrong size bandage issue rearing its ugly head again? One would think by now, teachers could have had this under control.

Exactly. They are too busy whining about class size to figure out a bandaid size.

Why would they even put a bandaid on a bruise. Life doesn't put bandaids on bruises. We don't even have bandaids. We do have duct tape to stem the flow if the bleeding is bad.

It is just another example of the pussification of kids.

[Redfrog]

WOW! I didn't expect this much reaction to my post.

Sporty, I'm gonna guess your a teacher, because you misprocessed 99% of my post. I won't bother answer your rant, because it is so far out of the park I'd have to pack a lunch just to get there.

If you have a couple hours, go back and read my OP and see if anything in your post is relevant.


The Reader's digest version.

A teacher made a bad call IMHO. She over reacted and in doing so lost a chance to "teach" and instead put the responsibility completely onto a 6 year girl in her second week of school.

This is not gr 9 . This is not a surly kid with an attitude. This is not a kid who is always not paying attention. According to the teacher this is a one of and not a pattern.

So again I say IMHO she made a bad call and lost an opportunity. It happens.

At least 50% of teachers are average at best. That's right folks. on their best day they are average. That's the facts Jack. Simple math.

It applies to other fields as well, but this is about teachers.

50% are over paid, over rated, and in a perfect world should never be in a classroom.

50% are outstanding and are underpaid, and over worked.

This teacher may be one of those above average who simply made an error in judgment. Hopefully I can get her and my G/D playing from the same sheet of music.

By the way, I am in the top 2 percentile of super Grand fathers and if you can believe an innocent child, I'm actually the best grampa ever.

[260 Rem]

Originally Posted by Redfrog

Exactly. They are too busy whining about class size to figure out a bandaid size.

Why would they even put a bandaid on a bruise. Life doesn't put bandaids on bruises. We don't even have bandaids. We do have duct tape to stem the flow if the bleeding is bad.

It is just another example of the pussification of kids.

Red, My bet is when they put the bandaid on it looked like an "abrasion" and only turned color after complications had set in ... always best to err on the side of safety
As much as I enjoyed my job, I must say that when I retired 10 yrs ago, the sound of chopper blades made by ever present helicopter parents made me feel like I was running a MASH unit.
Oh, and by-the-way, half of all Grand parents are by definition "below average"

[Redfrog]

Originally Posted by 260 Rem

Oh, and by-the-way, half of all Grand parents are by definition "below average"

Fortunately, my grandkids will never know those people.

[Bobby B.]

I taught school for one year, that was enough for me. To put up with all the BS a teacher is forced to, they should be paid an extra $20,000.00 a year plus have the option of strapping self-righteous, all knowing parents and grandparents. Thankfully, I started my own business and my income is three times that of a school teacher AND I make all the important decisions.

From what I observed as a teacher, and I taught 3 grades, the good students would do well regardless of most factors and the poor students never will. Why? The dominant factor is the student's parents and home life. Teachers cannot be everything to every child.

For those who think teaching is a walk in the park, you're sadly mistaken. I'm very confident that you could not control, and that's a HUGE aspect of teaching, a class for 3 days. It's always so easy to criticize but much more difficult to deliver the goods.

For those with little princes and princesses, there's always Toddlers and Tiaras.

Bobby B.

[kreator]

Originally Posted by Redfrog

At least 50% of teachers are average at best. That's right folks. on their best day they are average. That's the facts Jack. Simple math.

It applies to other fields as well, but this is about teachers.

50% are over paid, over rated, and in a perfect world should never be in a classroom.

50% are outstanding and are underpaid, and over worked.

63.5% of all stats are made up. 43.9% of the time.

[huntingd]

61% of the time it works everytime

[Redfrog]

"From what I observed as a teacher, and I taught 3 grades, the good students would do well regardless of most factors and the poor students never will. Why? The dominant factor is the student's parents and home life. Teachers cannot be everything to every child."


So it looks like you are saying we really don't need teachers at all.

Might as well hire roofers to teach.

[greylynx]

I see Redfrog has been dumped upon, by a bunch of teachers.

What did you teachers do.? You smeared Redfrog, you denigrated Redfrog, you called Redrog an unworthy grandfather.

With the exception of Bessiedog, none of you compassionate caring teachers lent a hand out to help this grandfather solve his problem.

You treated Redfrog like some unworthy low life to urinate on.

And you call yourself professionals.

Public paid union sheep, and donkeys are what you are.

Not even one finger lifted to help grandpa. Oh my God. Yes I said God.

[Bobby B.]

Originally Posted by Redfrog

"From what I observed as a teacher, and I taught 3 grades, the good students would do well regardless of most factors and the poor students never will. Why? The dominant factor is the student's parents and home life. Teachers cannot be everything to every child."


So it looks like you are saying we really don't need teachers at all.

Might as well hire roofers to teach.

Or fat grampas with all the answers. .

Bobby B.

[hal53]

Told me all I needed to know about teachers when they were bribed by Redford last election, vast majority are NOT there for the kids...nuff said.....

[hal53]

Note to self....when grandson #2 starts grade one and some teacher has an issue with him after 2 weeks and that teachers "expertise" tells the people who have been around this child for 6 years, that they should have the child tested/put on drugs for ADD, DO NOT post it here....

[greylynx]

Originally Posted by JohninAB

Your welcome.

Why don't you solve this issue for the teachers and maybe some parents as well.

Oh and you should quit making assumptions about a person's vocation as you are woefully wrong.

It is called communication.

You have a problem, like grandpa, you deal with it.

Anyone in private industry knows that the longer a problem festers the bigger it becomes.

I would have thought classroom management issues like I am describing would have been dealt with at PD meetings.

Oh. yesterday I was sitting in a goose pit with a school teacher on PD. Ha Ha Ha.

And no way will he comment on this forum. Even though he is an AO member.

[TBD]

Originally Posted by JohninAB

.... you should quit making assumptions about a person's vocation as you are woefully wrong.

for sure union job (great benefit program) - in a Redford gov't administration department of some description.


TBD



PS ... unless you're a DISHONEST teacher ?

[JohninAB]

Originally Posted by TBD

for sure union job (great benefit program) - in a Redford gov't administration department of some description.


TBD



PS ... unless you're a DISHONEST teacher ?

Wow, the infamous TBD PS.

[257wbyhunter]

Originally Posted by hal53

Note to self....when grandson #2 starts grade one and some teacher has an issue with him after 2 weeks and that teachers "expertise" tells the people who have been around this child for 6 years, that they should have the child tested/put on drugs for ADD, DO NOT post it here....

Me and my wife kinda had that problem with our first child. her teacher mentioned ADD, little did the teacher know that my wife is a registered psychiatric nurse. and asked the teacher what the definition of it was and got some bumbling response. she told the teacher when she gets a degree in the medical field to asses the mental state of a 6 year old to let her know. other wise keep her mouth shut about the mental state of our daughter. people think that every kid that has a little more energy has automatically something wrong with them. they forget that there just kids and get excited and it taked time to adjust to school when there just starting out.

[hal53]

Originally Posted by 257wbyhunter

Me and my wife kinda had that problem with our first child. her teacher mentioned ADD, little did the teacher know that my wife is a registered psychiatric nurse. and asked the teacher what the definition of it was and got some bumbling response. she told the teacher when she gets a degree in the medical field to asses the mental state of a 6 year old to let her know. other wise keep her mouth shut about the mental state of our daughter. people think that every kid that has a little more energy has automatically something wrong with them. they forget that there just kids and get excited and it taked time to adjust to school when there just starting out.

Very true, it's going to take years to see the full effect of the over use of Ritalin and every other thing they jump to put kids on these days...and it won't be nice what we see..

[marxman]

Originally Posted by Redfrog

I know there are some teachers on board here and I'm sure we all know some good ones and a few great ones. I had good teachers in school and some real duds. Guess which classes the students did well in. Same student, different teacher, different result.

My kids are long done school. one was a genius, who worked her butt off to be one. One was brilliant but only average in school. And the youngest made the teachers earn every penny of their wages.

I'm reliving the school thing now through the eyes of my perfect grandkids. The eldest started grade one this year and the teach has already had my daughter in for a 'talk'.

Seems this poor overworked and obviously underskilled grade one teacher had to repeat an assignment to my G/D because she got bored and wasn't paying attention.

Her solution was a parent teacher conference, remove privileges and maintain a close vigil for signs of ADD.

The kid is 6 and has been in school for two weeks.

I spend a lot of time with this child and she is very smart and is constantly looking to be challenged. I'm not saying she is perfect because she's my G/D. I'm saying she is extremely well behaved, respectful and thirsty to learn.

Too bad she got stuck with a mediocre teacher who thinks her job is to baby sit.

I'm not talking about an unruly child or behavior problems, I'm talking about a teacher who can't motivate or challenge a child and is too inept to see the problem.

BTW I taught adults for a G.E.D. for a couple years. I know the difference between constipation and motivation.

a hopeless post. no way to tell if i agree or disagree of course everyone goes by what they already think with a post like this

[schmedlap]

Originally Posted by greylynx

I see Redfrog has been dumped upon, by a bunch of teachers.

What did you teachers do.? You smeared Redfrog, you denigrated Redfrog, you called Redrog an unworthy grandfather.

With the exception of Bessiedog, none of you compassionate caring teachers lent a hand out to help this grandfather solve his problem.

You treated Redfrog like some unworthy low life to urinate on.

And you call yourself professionals.

Public paid union sheep, and donkeys are what you are.

Not even one finger lifted to help grandpa. Oh my God. Yes I said God.

I won't resort to "God" because I am a heathen, and don't believe in that stuff. But what you said is so true. My kids had some very good ones, and some absolutely dreadful ones. And because of my connections to their principals (For one example, I volunteer coached one boy's junior high soccer team, because none of the teachers could/would do it ?, and it wasn't going to happen unless I did it), I know how frustrated the very excellent principals get with their trough-sucking slugs contingent. Hopefully, the government's new initiative to examine this issue will result in the ability to terminate the true slugs in the system.
In grade 2 my youngest son had the misfortune to draw a lady I still refer to as "Frau Hitler". Being the academic star of the class, she really resented the fact that he was completely bored with her approach, and her unwillingness to adjust - he would have been very happy to simply go ahead on his own, or to be assigned to help those who were less "advanced", as, indeed, he did in all his other grades. Instead, she fought his "different" status throughout, as if it was some disadvantage to her. His principal told me that, unfortunately, he could not get rid of her ("seniority") and once said to me that they were so sorry to see him graduate, as it would lower their provincial assessment ratings by a significant percentage. He, and I, are very lucky indeed for him to have those abilities. He was offered, and declined, several opportunities to go to more academic environments - he wanted to just be "ordinary" and stay in his stream with his friends. The other teachers he had over the years were generally very good (some exceptions - but he was usually smart enough to avoid the true slugs).
My older son was not as academically gifted, and, as a consequence, not as savvy at picking the good ones. He encountered a number of slugs who were just obviously "putting in time" towards their publicly funded pensions. (He now has his B.Com. in spite of his lousy teachers, he was not going to be denied and worked his butt off to get there).
If teachers want to be called "professionals" they need to exhibit a few of the characteristics of actual professionals. They need to eschew the "union" environment and become individual professionals who actually gain and retain employment based on their merits and skills. The good ones will do very well, and the slugs will be deleted.
As you might surmise, I have no sympathy for the ATA and their "under appreciated" members. I suspect that the actual talented teachers would love to have some system based on merit and performance (as it is in any true professional environment) and that our kids would thrive as a result (?).

[Redfrog]

Originally Posted by greylynx

I see Redfrog has been dumped upon, by a bunch of teachers.

What did you teachers do.? You smeared Redfrog, you denigrated Redfrog, you called Redrog an unworthy grandfather.

With the exception of Bessiedog, none of you compassionate caring teachers lent a hand out to help this grandfather solve his problem.

You treated Redfrog like some unworthy low life to urinate on.

And you call yourself professionals.

Public paid union sheep, and donkeys are what you are.

Not even one finger lifted to help grandpa. Oh my God. Yes I said God.

Thanks for having my back greylynx.

I guess respect for elders went out with common sense and responsibility.

Teachurs aren't responsible for anything it seems. the six year old girls are. Sad really.

[Big Thumper]

Originally Posted by Redfrog

At least 50% of teachers are average at best. That's right folks. on their best day they are average. That's the facts Jack. Simple math.

Actually, by definition its not at least 50% of teachers are average at best, its EXACTLY 50% are 'average' or less. No matter what you mean (excuse the pun) to measure teachers by all normally distributed data will conform to this simple truth. This is also true with whatever criteria you use to measure ALL other occupations( including being a grandpa )
So, over the course of time one can expect a fair share of below average teachers and a fair share of above average, maybe even one or two well above average.

This very simple truth was taught to me by one well above average teacher in grade 11. Thank you Mr Stuart.

[Redfrog]

Originally Posted by Big Thumper

Actually, by definition its not at least 50% of teachers are average at best, its EXACTLY 50% are 'average' or less. No matter what you mean (excuse the pun) to measure teachers by all normally distributed data will conform to this simple truth. This is also true with whatever criteria you use to measure ALL other occupations( including being a grandpa )
So, over the course of time one can expect a fair share of below average teachers and a fair share of above average, maybe even one or two well above average.

This very simple truth was taught to me by one well above average teacher in grade 11. Thank you Mr Stuart.

Of course all of that is true as I have already stated. I also said that I was in the top 2% of Great grampas, unless you check with my G/D who will inform you that I am actually the Best and the smartest Grampa