New Rifle for hunting.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by 270person

I agree but the info on speed comparisons was a little off. I was just stating capabilities which there certainly are when one does the math. You know this well being a proponent of both cartridges.

I stated in my original posting that recoil being pretty much on par between the two the edge goes to the .284. Ballistically. Neither one kills any better than the other or game the other one won't. Ones a little faster, flatter, and carries a little more energy at the same distance with similar bullet weights.

Both get smoked by the 300 magnums but they aren't as easy to shoot.

Smoked? Not really.

And as far as velocity comparison goes, I’m shooting 168’s in both my 30-06 and 7mm Rem Mag. There is about a 120 fps velocity difference. There is a ballistic advantage to the 284, but that same ballistic advantage carries to the 300 vs 7mm argument.

[sns2]

Originally Posted by Duey43

I don’t have much experience after 30-06 180gr for recoil. It doesn’t bother me. I can do 1” groups at 200

In guns that fit, I always described the difference in recoil this way.

308 to 30-06 about 25% difference

30-06 to 7 Mag about 25% difference

7 mag to 300 Win Mag about 25% difference

Not scientific, but the best way I can describe it to someone.

I would also say that 7 Rem Mag is getting close to the recoil tolerance level that most guys can handle from a bench. Using a 140 gr mono metal bullet will help mitigate recoil also, as will a nice recoil pad.

Obviously there are exceptions, but that’s the way I describe it to guys who are wondering.

7 Rem Mag is a great combination of flat shooting knockdown power for Alberta hunting, and offers a wide array of ammo selections. 30-06 is equally good.

But all these choices will knock the animal down quite nicely if you do your part.

Hope that’s helpful.

What type of rifle you thinking?

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

A long time ago, before ballistics became "The Thing" people used what they could afford.
For many that meant mil surp or maybe if they were having a good year, a 20-20 or a 25-35. A few lucky hunters managed to acquire a 30-30 or a 30-06.

Those primitive weapons weren't great for long range shooting so hunters of that era learned how to stalk. Or they learned how to shoot.

They used a technique they called holdover, and they harvested game using that technique.

But a few weren't satisfied with what the makers were selling so they modified and experimented looking to build a tack driver sniper rifle for themselves.

The gun makers saw what they were doing and saw opportunity so they copied some of the more interesting modifications and called them their own.

To help sell these new, unproven rifles, the makers sent out information packages to gun writers complete with ballistic charts and the new rifles sold like hotcakes.

Over time hunters came to believe a rifle was no good if it didn't shoot flat and kick like a mazzura mule so belted magnums became the cartridge of choice.

But a few suborn old timers hung onto their rainbow trajectory rifles and continued to harvest game with them.

And so we arrive at today.

A slightly fictitious essay written by J H Tupper.

The 270 and 30-06 have been around for a very long time.

[sns2]

Originally Posted by chuck

The 270 and 30-06 have been around for a very long time.

Chuck you bully, why cloud the narrative with facts? Remember, If it ain’t the cheapest rifle you can buy, it’s no good. Iron sights also necessary for real hunters. You should know that. Tsk. Tsk.

[North40Rules]

The time test .30-06 has been around much longer than any members here and will be around long after we are all long gone.

Beautiful caliber!

Cheers N40

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by sns2

Chuck you bully, why cloud the narrative with facts? Remember, If it ain’t the cheapest rifle you can buy, it’s no good. Iron sights also necessary for real hunters. You should know that. Tsk. Tsk.

How dare Chuck bring facts into this discussion.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by chuck

The 270 and 30-06 have been around for a very long time.

Indeed they have and belted magnums have been around about as long, longer then I have.

Don't know if it's true but I was told that the ,375 H&H was released around 1910 and it wasn't the first belted magnum.

Fascinating subject. I used to read everything I could get my hands on about the history of firearms, ammo and the like.
Can't remember much of the finer points now. But I remember most of the meat of those articles.

Just as interesting, to me anyway, is I would read about one development or another, or new cartridge or another but didn't see any of the newer offerings until American hunters started coming to the area in the mid 1960s

Even then most of them were packing familiar to me chamberings but the odd one did have something I'd never seen before.

Thats when I started my cartridge collection.

The cartridges I remember best for those days was the .303, 30-30 and 25-35. I know of and shot one 20-20.

The very first 30-06 I ever saw was bought by my foster brother in 1966.
To me it seemed like a canon. Dad said it was way too much gun for a Deer and it did look to be the case. The first Deer I ever saw was shot with that gun and the hit destroyed a good part of the one front shoulder.

I learned much later that the reason for that. Let me rephrase that. I read much later that the reason for that was that the ammunition at that time, even top quality ammo had thin jackets that did not control expansion very well and so those bullets would blow apart if they hit solid bone.

The solution was simple though, don't shoot for the front shoulder.

So long as one didn't hit one of the big bones, and did put it where it counted, they did kill cleanly most of the time.
About as often as the ammo we have today does.

My personal opinion is that now those failures are more often the fault of the shooter then the bullet, where it was more often the fault of the bullet when I was a teen.

[270person]

Originally Posted by chuck

Smoked? Not really.

And as far as velocity comparison goes, I’m shooting 168’s in both my 30-06 and 7mm Rem Mag. There is about a 120 fps velocity difference. There is a ballistic advantage to the 284, but that same ballistic advantage carries to the 300 vs 7mm argument.

So pretty much what I said. Thanks.

[catnthehat]

I have seen 100FPS difference in two rifles both chambered in 3006 using the same load, it happens on a regular basis simply because of barrel and chamber dimensions .
Cat

[North40Rules]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

Indeed they have and belted magnums have been around about as long, longer then I have.

Don't know if it's true but I was told that the ,375 H&H was released around 1910 and it wasn't the first belted magnum.

Fascinating subject. I used to read everything I could get my hands on about the history of firearms, ammo and the like.
Can't remember much of the finer points now. But I remember most of the meat of those articles.

Just as interesting, to me anyway, is I would read about one development or another, or new cartridge or another but didn't see any of the newer offerings until American hunters started coming to the area in the mid 1960s

Even then most of them were packing familiar to me chamberings but the odd one did have something I'd never seen before.

Thats when I started my cartridge collection.

The cartridges I remember best for those days was the .303, 30-30 and 25-35. I know of and shot one 20-20.

The very first 30-06 I ever saw was bought by my foster brother in 1966.
To me it seemed like a canon. Dad said it was way too much gun for a Deer and it did look to be the case. The first Deer I ever saw was shot with that gun and the hit destroyed a good part of the one front shoulder.

I learned much later that the reason for that. Let me rephrase that. I read much later that the reason for that was that the ammunition at that time, even top quality ammo had thin jackets that did not control expansion very well and so those bullets would blow apart if they hit solid bone.

The solution was simple though, don't shoot for the front shoulder.

So long as one didn't hit one of the big bones, and did put it where it counted, they did kill cleanly most of the time.
About as often as the ammo we have today does.

My personal opinion is that now those failures are more often the fault of the shooter then the bullet, where it was more often the fault of the bullet when I was a teen.

I mentioned that before in another thread, shooting a deer, even a moose or elk with a 30-06 or a .300 Win Mag in the shoulder is just plain stupid, to me anyway. I go for the heart, lungs every time unless I get a very good shot at the neck at close range. I hate to waste meat, venison is way too delicious to waste!

[270person]

Originally Posted by sns2

In guns that fit, I always described the difference in recoil this way.


30-06 to 7 Mag about 25% difference

That'd be loading some hot 7mm and some dribbler 06.

[270person]

Originally Posted by North40Rules

I mentioned that before in another thread, shooting a deer, even a moose or elk with a 30-06 or a .300 Win Mag in the shoulder is just plain stupid, to me anyway. I go for the heart, lungs every time unless I get a very good shot at the neck at close range. I hate to waste meat, venison is way too delicious to waste!

I await the inevitable southern Alberta reply.

[EZM]

Originally Posted by sns2

In guns that fit, I always described the difference in recoil this way.

308 to 30-06 about 25% difference

30-06 to 7 Mag about 25% difference

7 mag to 300 Win Mag about 25% difference

Not scientific, but the best way I can describe it to someone.

I would also say that 7 Rem Mag is getting close to the recoil tolerance level that most guys can handle from a bench. Using a 140 gr mono metal bullet will help mitigate recoil also, as will a nice recoil pad.

Obviously there are exceptions, but that’s the way I describe it to guys who are wondering.

7 Rem Mag is a great combination of flat shooting knockdown power for Alberta hunting, and offers a wide array of ammo selections. 30-06 is equally good.

But all these choices will knock the animal down quite nicely if you do your part.

Hope that’s helpful.

What type of rifle you thinking?

Or, if you shoot a Tikka Lite (the previous generation) recoil increases by 100% it seems .... lol ...

[EZM]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

I have seen 100FPS difference in two rifles both chambered in 3006 using the same load, it happens on a regular basis simply because of barrel and chamber dimensions .
Cat

or if you use cheap budget ammo out of the box !!!!

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by EZM

or if you use cheap budget ammo out of the box !!!!

Cheap ammo was used in both rifles and the one rifle was still faster than the other
Cat

[Cageyc]

Have you looked at the 280AI? It’s very close to a 30-06 but has less recoil.

[Bushleague]

Originally Posted by sns2

In guns that fit, I always described the difference in recoil this way.

308 to 30-06 about 25% difference

30-06 to 7 Mag about 25% difference

7 mag to 300 Win Mag about 25% difference

Not scientific, but the best way I can describe it to someone.

I would also say that 7 Rem Mag is getting close to the recoil tolerance level that most guys can handle from a bench. Using a 140 gr mono metal bullet will help mitigate recoil also, as will a nice recoil pad.

Obviously there are exceptions, but that’s the way I describe it to guys who are wondering.

7 Rem Mag is a great combination of flat shooting knockdown power for Alberta hunting, and offers a wide array of ammo selections. 30-06 is equally good.

But all these choices will knock the animal down quite nicely if you do your part.

Hope that’s helpful.

What type of rifle you thinking?

Man, when I shoot a .308 or .270 vs a 30-06 I cant feel any difference whatsoever, nothing like 25%. I think I can feel a little bit of difference the next day but I've never been quite sure about that. Going down to a .303 British I can start to feel it, with 7-08 or smaller I can deffinately feel a difference. Been a long time since I shot anything bigger so I cant comment on the other stuff.

At one point I had two identical Remington 760's, on in .308 and one in 30-06 and never could feel one smidge of difference. A buddy had a really old 760 in 30-06 though, and that thing would rattle your teeth loose, probably the worst gun I've ever shot.

[crazy_davey]

Originally Posted by North40Rules

Just thought I would go back to your original post.

I will start by saying that if you are comfortable with the recoil of a .30-06, then at least to me, and as mentioned I own both a .03-06 as well as a .300 Win Mag (without a muzzle break because I hate them), I see no appreciable difference between the two especially if I am shooting at game when I am so concentrated on the shot I don't even notice the recoil.

If you are planning on shooting hundreds of rounds through your new rifle, target shooting is a different animal and you would start to feel the recoil quickly. I do not do much range shooting myself because I am very confident with my skill level and I know that my rifles are deadly accurate. In fact, my .300 win mag shoots .25 MOA.

To me fit is of paramount importance, when I bring my rifles up to my shoulder I want to be looking through the glass without having to adjust my cheek or move my head around on the stock to find the proper view as well as the crosshairs. To me, a perfect fit is when you are on target instantly! without any cheek or head adjustments.

With that said if you buy a new rifle off of the shelf and you want to "Fine Tune it" you can always go ahead and "Free Float" or "Glass Bed" the barrel or do both, you can also swap out the barrel if the factory barrel does not shoot to your standards. In short, there are several options for fine-tuning a rifle.

Like many people here I am not a gun collector and I do not have every type of caliber under the sun, that is not my passion, but I understand people that do this as my father was a big gun collector. I just never saw the need because I only wanted a rifle that would feed me, and do a great job on any game I was hunting.

As I mentioned earlier, I bought a .300 Win Mag specifically for long-range shooting and primarily for Elk. Personally, I consider long-range shooting to be anything over 350 yards.

What I would do if I were you is I would go to a Cabelas and pick up every 300 Win Mag on their shelf to first find the rifle that fits you best. The .300 Win Mag is such a versatile caliber that you will be able to hunt any animal in North America with complete confidence!

When you start shooting it, if you don't like the groupings, then consider the next step which would be to modify and adjust the barrel as mentioned earlier. If you want to have a Laser, you can even purchase a custom barrel like a Wilson Match Grade barrel to further improve the accuracy, which is what I did to obtain .25 MOA, this was important to me because if I see an elk @ let's say 600 yards, I want to be confident in taking the shot and to have enough energy in the ammo to be lethal. I shoot Nosler 190 Gr. ABLR's out of my .300 Win Mag simply because the Wilson barrel on it loves this particular ammo, but they are very expensive. With my .30-06 I shoot 180 Gr. Winchester SuperX because my .30-36 loves them and @ <$30.00 a box I love them too lol.

In any case, finding the right rifle to suit your needs is a fun project, so is modifying it into a laser beam long range shooter if that is what you choose to do, and let's face it dead is dead, is dead is dead and a .30-06 or a .300 Win Mag will make your quarry as dead as dead can be lol.

Cheers N40

So what’s your scope of choice for your 300 WM. Asking for a friend.

[North40Rules]

Originally Posted by crazy_davey

So what’s your scope of choice for your 300 WM. Asking for a friend.

The OP's thread is not about scope selection, it is about rifle selection and I do not want to derail it. Sent you a PM.

Cheers N40

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by EZM

or if you use cheap budget ammo out of the box !!!!

There is another one for the myth thread, cheaper doesn't mean less velocity, or less accuracy.

That'd be loading some hot 7mm and some dribbler 06.

Exactly, using max loads in both, the difference is minimal, the same as 308win to 30-06 in the exact same rifle weight.

[euro]

For me I like heavier slower bullets, if the bullets stops inside the animal you get the full effect from the energy.

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

There is another one for the myth thread, cheaper doesn't mean less velocity, or less accuracy.


.

I usually find cheap is just a less than premium bullet. Big difference in price between federal premium partitions or ballistic tips

[North40Rules]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

I usually find cheap is just a less than premium bullet. Big difference in price between federal premium partitions or ballistic tips

Inexpensive does not mean cheap either. The Winchester SuperX 180 Gr. kill everything I shoot at with my .30-06. Would never even consider switching to anything else. Lots of beer money left over when you buy Winchester SuperX

[crazy_davey]

Originally Posted by North40Rules

The OP's thread is not about scope selection, it is about rifle selection and I do not want to derail it. Sent you a PM.

Cheers N40

Ya right. I know you’ve been here before under a different name.

[brewster29]

Originally Posted by euro

For me I like heavier slower bullets, if the bullets stops inside the animal you get the full effect from the energy.

Mods should move this one to the "Myths" thread!

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by brewster29

Mods should move this one to the "Myths" thread!

That is a huge one.

[EZM]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

Cheap ammo was used in both rifles and the one rifle was still faster than the other
Cat

Makes sense - chamber and barrel length (as you said) make a difference.

I was just seeing (and was surprised by) what a shot to shot difference was in the same rifle in terms of velocity using the same cheap box of ammo.

Not sure if it was the cheap ammo (and the inconsistency) versus more expensive ammo (assuming it would be more precisely metered).

Be very curious to see deviation and range of velocity in cheap ammo versus match.

Also am curious about seating depth variation (and if that plays a big part in velocity) - I know it matters for accuracy - but what about velocity?

I've never done the comparison myself - but I'm sure some people have on here.

[sns2]

Originally Posted by North40Rules

Inexpensive does not mean cheap either. The Winchester SuperX 180 Gr. kill everything I shoot at with my .30-06. Would never even consider switching to anything else. Lots of beer money left over when you buy Winchester SuperX

What type of 30-06 you shooting? P14?

[crazy_davey]

Originally Posted by North40Rules

The OP's thread is not about scope selection, it is about rifle selection and I do not want to derail it. Sent you a PM.

Cheers N40

Buh bye Edmunhunter.

[Twisted Canuck]

Originally Posted by crazy_davey

Buh bye Edmunhunter.

Sure saw that coming....