Why did the .308 score so low in the poll?

[AbAngler]

Originally Posted by Matt L.

The answer to your question Okoyokian is none. Each of those three calibres will kill any Albertan game animal. What it boils down to is personal preference. Get out and shoot as many calibres as possible and choose the one you like the feel of the best.

Exactly. I love my .308. It works. http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=23442

[Mintaka]

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[Buckhead]

Originally Posted by Cooeylover

where did you pick this up from cause this is one of the most disrespectful things i have ever heard anyone say about any troops.
I bet whoever you got this from aint saying this while walking through a veterns cemetary.
VERY IGNORANT THING TO SAY!!!
Bring it on!!!!!

Yes, this is my quote and it is well documented that when troops were asked about their M1 Garand (30-06) the complaints were that the recoil was too high and the rifle and ammunition were too heavy. It is this that I am refering to.

I am not in any way trying to insult the bravery or honour of any veteran, past or present and if any have felt insulted by my comments - I humbly offer my apology. If you wish I will deliver it in person as well.

[Selkirk]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

I find all this fascinating. Lots of guys with deep deep knowledge and an affinity for one gun or the other, with solid technical reasons.... But I'm a bit confused still. So in the discussion of the .270 vs the .308 vs the 30-06, please tell me which Alberta animal your choice will kill that the other choices won't?
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Oh, don't be silly ... everyone knows the answer to that question!

The Alberta animal that you speak of would be a 'Sasquatch'! But none of the above could take one down alone ... you'd need a .30-06 in the right ear, a .270 in the left ear, and a .308 in the forehead.

Next question . . .

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Mintaka

You are right bob, the 6mm is not belted yet they referred to it as a magnum...to help it sell.
Some great sheep hunters of the 30's-50's used the 7X57 right here in North America, another popular caliber was the 300 savage, a couple of rounds I think deserve to be resurrected. I would take either one over one of the new midget mags.

The 7X57 was never buried, it is still very much alive and killing critters everyday!!
Cat

[uglyelk2]

Well the girly men in my regiment were pleased to carry those wee .308's


Thought the old FN was the best battle rifle we ever issued the troops!

I didn't vote because I don't line up to measure my pecker I know how long it is .

I thought I had 8 .308's in the cabinet...but I just checked and their's 5.....maybe that means I'm planning on a couple more. It's my favourite caliber.

Shorter action, less recoil, super accurate, cheaper, what 100 fps less than a 30.06 what a sissy round.

7.62 was developed to be the nato round. Made sense for resupply if we all used the same rounds. If it ain't broke don't fix it!

Then the yank bean counters bailed on the program and they went to 223 after everyone else was on board.

.223 meant cheaper rounds and more rounds carried into battle. the goal wasn't to kill it was all about high velocity fragmentation rounds. Don't kill the enemy wound him take 3 folks out of the fight 1 wounded 2 to carry. Less horiffic entry exit wounds on the evening news.

So today we have our guys hunkered down behind cinder block walls and the terrorist types are shooting Ak's at them. You know soviet 7.62x39's the shorties. But they still penetrate walls and body armour. Our guys get to fireback with plinksters that bounce off the walls.

I think we made a mistake following the yanks on this one. Yeah the wee bushmaster is fun and cheap to shoot, but if I was going into battle I'd want to take a rifle with me. AR10's do the job.

Sorry for the rant...I'm happy to hunt anything on this continent with a .308

[Brad09]

Well, it's been really interesting reading all 66 replies here, and I'm sure learning a lot. I've learned some interesting things here about the .308 that I'll be researching further. Definitely a cartridge I'm interested in getting my rifle chambered for. It's interesting to see that others found my poll results interesting and did some further digging, and created this great thread!

And later on in life, when I go out hunting, I'll take all three rifles for hunting that sasquatch. It'll be a great story and a great forum.

[Selkirk]

Originally Posted by Brad09

" . . . I've learned some interesting things here about the .308 that I'll be researching further. Definitely a cartridge I'm interested in getting my rifle chambered for . . . "
.

... Say what?!?!

Brad, we all thought you had decided on a .270! Like ... what's up?!

Are you SURE you want to go with one of those little .308's? Take a look at your poll results, eh! And, not to mention, it's been well documented in this thread that the .308 is a 'boring', 'ho-hum' cartridge, made for 'girly-boys'.

[Mintaka]

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[bobinthesky]

Originally Posted by Mintaka

You are right bob, the 6mm is not belted yet they referred to it as a magnum...to help it sell.
Some great sheep hunters of the 30's-50's used the 7X57 right here in North America, another popular caliber was the 300 savage, a couple of rounds I think deserve to be resurrected. I would take either one over one of the new midget mags.

Well I may be right... but I do stand corrected.
After doing a little research on the topic, it seems that a handfull of rifles escaped from the Remington plant with 6mm Remington Magnum stamped on the barrels! I'm guessing that they are worth a fair bit of money today too!

Remington has never failed to amaze me with their fumbling, bumbling marketing ways.

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams

I guess all the 7mm Rem. guys must have been out hunting, when the survey was done.
Grizz

Bruising their shoulders and damaging their eardrums.

Sorry, I just couldn't resist

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by TriggerFinger

Oh, don't be silly ... everyone knows the answer to that question!

The Alberta animal that you speak of would be a 'Sasquatch'! But none of the above could take one down alone ... you'd need a .30-06 in the right ear, a .270 in the left ear, and a .308 in the forehead.

Next question . . .

THANK YOU! I was beginning the think I needed to dial up my sarcasm meter a bit more.

[PoppaW]

I thought it was a joke the 308 had so few votes and I took pity on it and voted for it! I know of one person who has used a 308 to kill everything he wanted to and wouldn't hesitate to own one if it was the right gun.
Have fun and good luck.

[Selkirk]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

"Throught the range, the '06 is about 50 -100 feet faster than the 308 , generally speaking.
the point is moot however, because i really don't think it has anything to do with the popularity of either cartridge, In some circles, such as short range BR, Palma match, TR, or tactical matches, the 308 is king over the '06. . . . "
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Originally Posted by Alberta Tactical Rifle

" . . . With factory ammo you do not have any way to alter the end results, so by shortening the barrel in either caliber you "could" see a velocity loss. Reloading with the more modern powders can be used to alter this.

I have spent a fair bit of time screwing around with my 308 Tac rifle and have come up with some interesting results . . . "
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Thanks for the come-backs Gents (ATR, Cat, and others)! It's always a good thing when some of the more experienced/knowledgeable members step forward and provide some words of wisdom. It helps to keep a thread legit, and on an even keel.

Well, I think we've pretty much beat this subject to death ... it's been VERY interesting and lots o' fun! As for all you .308'ers out there, I think you've been vindicated!

Thanks Brad09 for providing the inspiration for this thread.

[Buckhead]

So, if I want to go into combat, be a sniper, SWAT team member or just kill some sheets of paper I should use a .308.

That does not mean I'm going to trade any of my favorite "hunting" rifles for one in .308.

Might just as well start driving a Dodge, too.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Buckhead

So, if I want to go into combat, be a sniper, SWAT team member or just kill some sheets of paper I should use a .308.

That does not mean I'm going to trade any of my favorite "hunting" rifles for one in .308.

Might just as well start driving a Dodge, too.

I really don't care WHAT i drive, as long as it works - if it doesn't it ain't worth crap.
the .308 works on game of any kind as well as targets, plain and simple.

For the record, I am not, never have been , nor have ever professed to be a sniper, ever have seen combat or been a member of any ERT or SWAT team.
I have done a bit of long range competing however.

Cat

[el sparko]

i've owned and used my trusty rem. 788. in the 308. calibre for thirty or so years now and if it ever broke down i would be heart broken. i have taken scores of deer at both long and short ranges, half a dozen moose and two respectable bull elk. most were quick one shot kills and when i drew a bead on my quarry i was confidant the bullet would do the job; and it did. i just returned from the wainwright deer hunt and on the last day i dispatched two smallish mulie bucks, both togather at about 300 yards. they fell twenty or so feet from each other. the 308 was and from what i'm told still is a favorite calibre choice for snipers in our military. if there's one thing i know about snipers it's that they really don't like to miss.

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by Mintaka

And it can kill any big game the 7mm-08 can, with a little more.....finesse.

Finesse being defined as more hold-over and shooting from closer range.

[Sitting Bull]

I shot a Remington Mohawk 600 in 308 cal. for 30 yrs. It was my only rifle. Great rifle, shot lots of game and was very accurate. I traded up 2 years ago and bought a 30-06 just because. I miss the short action of the 308.
When I started looking at a new gun I could not believe the go big or go home theory. I didn't buy into it. Last I checked, deer, moose elk and bears did not become any harder to kill. My 308 did just fine on the above as does my 06.

[Selkirk]

Originally Posted by Sitting Bull

"I shot a Remington Mohawk 600 in 308 cal. for 30 yrs. It was my only rifle. Great rifle, shot lots of game and was very accurate . . . "

Originally Posted by el sparko

"i've owned and used my trusty rem. 788. in the 308. calibre for thirty or so years now and if it ever broke down i would be heart broken . . . "

You .308'ers keep coming out of the woodwork!

Where were you when Brad09 ran his poll on the .270, .30-06, & .308 ?!

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

Finesse being defined as more hold-over and shooting from closer range.

Actually the 7X57 will do better at long range than the 708 will.
Cat

[Dick284]

I own 2, 308's
One is a Palma match rifle, the other I just acquired it's a Rem 740, I had the barrel cut to 18.5".
Have'nt hunted with either.......yet

[Donny Bear]

Originally Posted by Buckhead

The .308 is just a shortened 30-06, therefore it has no real purpose.
If I want my 30-06 to shoot slower I just use less powder - what do I need a 308 for.

The .308 is for sissys and little girls.

You Must be right Cause I know a young lady who frequents this forum and at a wopping 16 years of age she Tagged a 6x6 bull elk a nice trophy Antelope and 175 class mule all with her 308.

oops sorry the young Lady is no sissy but quite the hunter for sure

[zimmss64]

Originally Posted by EagleEye54

Perhaps the reason for the low vote on an Alberta based forum board has to do with the topography we hunt in. Most folks I know stick with long action rigs with some reach to drop deer at longer range on the open fields. Not that the 308 isn't up for the job, but some perceive that it is not. I'd bet that if you asked this question in a place like Alabama, you'd likely get a whole different vote pattern.

I miss the 308 and will pick up another some day soon. The variety of lead available and the calibers uses are endless. Before I got my 243 and 300 Win mag both Winchester model 70 s , I dropped more Wight tail and Mule deer in southern Sask than I have with both my Winchesters. But, that is only my oppinion.

[Mintaka]

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[russ]

I've tried to read all the comments, but if I've missed something forgive me. For the 2 of you that it was pointed out that the .308 is the child of the .300 Savage...

Please refer to

Page 534 of the Sierra Reloading Manual 5th Edition or are you going to tell us that the Wiki people edited that too?

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by russ

I've tried to read all the comments, but if I've missed something forgive me. For the 2 of you that it was pointed out that the .308 is the child of the .300 Savage...

Please refer to

Page 534 of the Sierra Reloading Manual 5th Edition or are you going to tell us that the Wiki people edited that too?

several different manuals kist the 300 savage as the parent case, but in the end, the 30 '06 is the case used.
this is because of the pressure levels of the 300 compared to the '06.

The same thing happened with the 338 lapua - many think it was originally wildcatted from a 416 Rigby, but the FINAL development used a complelty redesigned case.

the 300 Savage case is a bit shorter than the 308 IIRC, so you cannot make 308 cases from it - you CAN from the '06 however.
This is where the big argument is for the original case IMO.

I don't consider the 300 savage the parent case because it cannot be used for the 308 because of the length and the pressure levels of the case itself.

I also do not consider the 416 the parent case for the 338 lapua for the same reasons, although it was used in the development.

Didn't menan o hijack , but I thought this may clarify things a bit
Cat

[Dick284]

AFAIK:
The 300Sav. was tried in the arms trials in the mid to late 1940's, it was deemed as giving good performance, but had to sharp of shoulder and too straight of body taper to be considered viable in automatic firearms(self cleaning because of case shape)
So I'm pretty sure it was then a lot of scrambling to have 30'06(M1 loading) performance in a 300Sav. sized case.

Voila the 7.62x51 (308Win.) was spawned

So I think what is going on here, is some folks are taking one half of the story, and neglecting the other half, perhaps in an attempt to keep the passages in manuals etc. short and maybe not so concise.

[russ]

Hey at least I RTFM'd!

[Selkirk]

Originally Posted by Dick284

" . . . The 300Sav. was tried in the arms trials in the mid to late 1940's, it was deemed as giving good performance, but . . . "

Originally Posted by catnthehat

"several different manuals kist the 300 savage as the parent case, but in the end, the 30 '06 is the case used . . . "

Dick & Cat ... I believe you're mostly right on both your parts, but from what I understand the .308 did not have a 'true' Parent case, in our definition of the word.

Yes ... the .300 Sav. did play a very important part in the development of the .308 Win., but as you correctly point out, you cannot make a .308 Win. case from a .300 Sav. case.

The .30-06 specs. also played a very improtant part in the development of the .308 , but in spite of the fact that a .308 case can be made from a .30-06 case, the .308 was not truely 'parented' from the .30-06 ... only some of the .30-06 specs where used in the .308's development.

In a nut-shell, the .308 Win. (NATO 7.62x51) actually has 'two' Parents ... the .300 Sav. and the .30-06 Spring.

Now I guess we'll have to decide which was the 'Mother' and which was the 'Father'. For what it's worth, I vote for the .30-06 as being the Father.

Cheers,

Dean