Bad Requests for PAL

[Rocky7]

Hi,

I just had an experience with Bass Pro that I wanted to share. I have had the odd request for a PAL when buying reloading components. I don't take it well. The conversation usually goes like this:

"Do you have a PAL?"
"Yes."
"Can I see it?"
"No. And you should not be asking for it. I don't need a PAL to buy (bullets, powder, brass...) I am not going to show it to you. If you insist on this, please call the Manager because I am not going to show it to you."
"OK. I didn't know that you don't need a PAL to buy x."

And so another clerk is educated and another gun owner refuses to yield to the stupidity. It's not a big deal to some but it's a big deal to me. If others don't know this, I am telling you that you do NOT need to produce a PAL to buy reloading components so please don't. Don't yield. If we stand together on these small issues, we can help to undo the damage of years of liberal propaganda.

Here's an email I just got from Bass Pro with my reply below:

On 2012-01-02, at 4:19 PM, Glenn M. Puschner wrote:

Rick,

Let me apologize for what happened to your brother in law yesterday. You and him are correct when you say that you do not require a PAL to purchase reloading components. This does come to a surprise to a lot of gun owners that do shop here and elsewhere. Many times I’ve had customers offer to show their license when buying components. My staff upstairs in hunting try very hard to make sure that we are up to date with the current legislation. Unfortunately sometimes a few things slip through the cracks, this issue being one of them. I can also say the same for the cashiers downstairs. Many of them do not have a background in hunting or shooting, so they must also learn on the fly.
I hope this is a satisfactory answer for you. If you would like you could call me directly to discuss the issue further. I can be reached at 403-xxx-xxxx

Thanks,

Glenn Puschner
Hunting Manager
Calgary,AB

.......

Fair enough, but it's your job to teach your staff. This was a young lady cashier downstairs. Fix it.

A lot of us are fed up to the gills with dumb gun laws and the last - and I mean last - thing we need are those who hold themselves out as our "friends" piling on more of that liberal gun control crap.

My brother-in-law made a special detour to your store, at my request, to pick up some bullets that are hard to get here in *, some powder (which you didn't have anyway - R17) and some binos. I have my eye on one of your safes. I'm a gun nut. I spend quite a bit on hunting and shooting stuff that I really don't need and am grateful for an understanding wife.

I appreciate your reply, but I'd rather have heard "this won't happen again" instead of "Oh well, they don't know what they are doing."

I'm not surprised you have customers who offer to show their PALs. So many gun owners have been whipped for so long, it's a wonder some don't offer to drop their pants. That's no excuse for you or your staff, though, is it?

Thanks again for taking the time to reply.

Sincerely,

Rick

ps: I am copying this to my brother-in-law who did me the favour of driving to your store and was frustrated by someone who was inventing laws that don't exist.

We have to take our small victories where we can find them.

[Robmcleod82]

Are you for real? You seriously get that upset over something like that? You must lead a fairly uneventful life if that is a big deal for you. Your going to give a 16 year old girl grief for not knowing that you dont need a license to purchase reloading equipment, people like her get payed 9 bucks an hour, they dont need people treating them like they are morons because they make a mistake. She wasnt the one that made the dumb laws. Then Glen sent you a very polite apology letter and thats not good enough either. If I was the manager there I would have told you to pound sand. Hey heres an idea for you why dont you spare yourself and others the misery of having to deal with an ignorant jerk and buy your stuff online from grouse river then you will never have to show your pal for reloading stuff again.

[nick0danger]

never had a problem at basspro, i would of showed my pal and than said im pretty sure you do not need a pal for this perhaps you can ask your boss when you get a chance.

[ctd]

You need a valid firearms licence to obtain ammunition. As defined in the Criminal Code: "ammunition" means "a cartridge containing a projectile designed to be discharged from a firearm and, without restricting the generality of the foregoing, includes a caseless cartridge and a shot shell." The definition does not include loose black powder and shot used in muzzleloaders. Black powder is regulated primarily under the Explosives Act, which is administered by Natural Resources Canada (NRCAN). Check with NRCAN or refer to the Explosives Act for any requirements applying to the purchase of loose black powder

ammunition” means a cartridge containing a projectile designed to be discharged from a firearm and, without restricting the generality of the foregoing, includes a caseless cartridge and a shot shell.


The Top Paragraph was taken from CFC website.
The second paragraph was taken from the Criminal code..

You are correct you can buy powder, primers and casings with out a PAL.
But to buy Cartridges you need your PAL according to what I just read. Whos right and whos wrong?

Unless you can provide me with a link that counters what is abovre I think you need to apoligize to the girl behind the counter and the store manager.

[elkhunter11]

You are correct you can buy powder, primers and casings with out a PAL.

Bullets also belong on that list.

But to buy Cartridges you need your PAL according to what I just read. Whos right and whos wrong?

He mentions bullets and powder, but I see no mention of cartridges.

My brother-in-law made a special detour to your store, at my request, to pick up some bullets that are hard to get here in *, some powder (which you didn't have anyway - R17) and some binos.

[airbornedeerhunter]

I was I believe, the first person to read your post. I was about to reply when I said no, I'll wait and see where this goes. 32 other people read your post and did not reply, finally someone did and I echo their sentiments. You and people like you are the reason why most people who work in the service industry are surly,grumpy and seem like their souls have been crushed. Not everyone who works at a sporting store is an outdoor / gun/ fishing/ hunting/ legislative/legal expert. Some poor kid working for minimum wage or a new employee at such a store learns as they go. Firstly, when asked for your PAL you could have simply been polite, smiled and explained in a non confrontational tone that one is'nt required to be produced for reloading components. You chose a different route and you did'nt stop at berating the employee, you took it further and filed a complaint, if I was the manager I would have ignored you as I'm sure your tone was no more pleasant that your first encounter with their staff. Then, when the guy takes the time out of his day to send you a polite apologetic letter, you practically tell the guy off for his apology! You need to pick and choose your battles! I would hate to see your reaction if one of your civil liberties really got trampled on! WoW!!!

[ROAD HAMMER]

Was at Peavey Mart they would not sell me pellets for a air gun without my PAL they got told wear to go and i want to speak with the manager and he told me the same thing so i showed him my PAL then i told him to pound sand and left .

[elkhunter11]

Firstly, when asked for your PAL you could have simply been polite, smiled and explained in a non confrontational tone that one is'nt required to be produced for reloading components.

I have done this myself a couple of times, and although one clerk did go to ask the manager to verify this, nobody became upset, and the transaction went smoothly. Now had I been refused service without producing my PAL after politely informing the clerk of the rules, I would have asked to see the manager.

[Rocky7]

Originally Posted by ctd

But to buy Cartridges you need your PAL according to what I just read. Whos right and whos wrong?

Unless you can provide me with a link that counters what is abovre I think you need to apoligize to the girl behind the counter and the store manager.

Do you have a reading problem?

My bro-in-law was buying components.

I am well aware that a PAL is required for factory ammunition.

[airbornedeerhunter]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I have done this myself a couple of times, and although one clerk did go to ask the manager to verify this, nobody became upset, and the transaction went smoothly.

See! You get more bee's with honey than vinegar!

[Rocky7]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I have done this myself a couple of times, and although one clerk did go to ask the manager to verify this, nobody became upset, and the transaction went smoothly.

I was a tad upset on this one because my bro-in-law went out his way to go there, spent time in the store rounding up what was on my shopping list and - after I told him a PAL was not required - he was then refused the sale. There's no excuse for that.

Otherwise, I don't get upset either. But neither do I show my PAL.

[sns2]

Cabelas and WSS wanted my PAL / name for powder tonight. It was given gladly. What's the big deal? You think CSIS is watching you or something? Take it easy on people who make $9/hour.

[Robmcleod82]

I think you need a hug rocky. Your very emotional right now.

[Rocky7]

Hahaha. Nope, not really. I just can't fathom why gun owners would bend over for this. Why complain about gun laws is you're going to comply with laws that don't exist?

That's like complaining about an ATV helmet law while you ride around with an extra helmet strapped to your backside because somebody said you should.

[just_dave]

[ctd]

What is the defintion of caseless cartridge.

[newdrenalin]

I'll have to agree with what a couple other guys already stated. Giving a 16 kid, that makes 9 bucks an hour, ****. Really ?

[coldredneck]

[pattycr125]

I'll show the card I don't mind but i draw the line when they start writing things down.

[Nate_K1500]

for $9 i wouldn't bother to learn anything but the very minimum. i could see if the girl was the store manager or something like that but who cares. i always bring mine with me, if its asked for ill show it, if not i save 15 seconds of my life, not a big deal for me.

[70fastback]

the 1 thing that ticks me about the pal system is when I want to look at a firearm I'm asked for my pal but when I ask them if they have theirs the answer is they don't need one to handle the gun.. just my rant for the day....

[elkhunter11]

What is the defintion of caseless cartridge.

A cartridge contains a propellant to accelerate the bullet, as well as a means to ignite the propellant.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caseless_ammunition

Cabelas and WSS wanted my PAL / name for powder tonight. It was given gladly. What's the big deal?

I would have been polite, but I would have refused to show my PAL to purchase components. It is a matter of principal. If I show my PAL once to buy components, then that clerk will keep on asking everyone to show a PAL to buy components. If they are going to do the job,they do need to learn the law, but they can be educated in a polite manner. Now if the clerk gets upset, and insists that I show my PAL, I will be speaking to the manager.

after I told him a PAL was not required - he was then refused the sale.

If I asked to speak to the manager, and was still denied service, unless I produced a PAL, I would have left as well.

[Rocky7]

I thought most folks were aware that the PAL system has accomplished nothing - nada - in making anybody safer. That includes the old FAC law.

I thought most folks were also aware that the PAL system means that guns are banned in Canada. That's the default in this country. You can only have a gun if the government says so, and then only for 5 years.

I won't go along with it one iota farther than I have to nor one second longer than I have to. I cannot understand why anyone would.

Those who "go along to get along" should not complain when another liberal government is elected and they discover that ammunition is now $150 a box because of a new requirement to have tiny serial numbers engraved on each bullet.

It's not about $9/hr. clerk who insists on a PAL. It's about resisting and educating. When you "go along to get along" you yield to a tyrannical, irrational law that has accomplished nothing and you teach the $9/hr. clerk (and, ultimately, the politicians) that gun control is not important to you. I won't do that.

[Lonnie]

Originally Posted by airbornedeerhunter

I was I believe, the first person to read your post. I was about to reply when I said no, I'll wait and see where this goes. 32 other people read your post and did not reply, finally someone did and I echo their sentiments. You and people like you are the reason why most people who work in the service industry are surly,grumpy and seem like their souls have been crushed. Not everyone who works at a sporting store is an outdoor / gun/ fishing/ hunting/ legislative/legal expert. Some poor kid working for minimum wage or a new employee at such a store learns as they go. Firstly, when asked for your PAL you could have simply been polite, smiled and explained in a non confrontational tone that one is'nt required to be produced for reloading components. You chose a different route and you did'nt stop at berating the employee, you took it further and filed a complaint, if I was the manager I would have ignored you as I'm sure your tone was no more pleasant that your first encounter with their staff. Then, when the guy takes the time out of his day to send you a polite apologetic letter, you practically tell the guy off for his apology! You need to pick and choose your battles! I would hate to see your reaction if one of your civil liberties really got trampled on! WoW!!!

airborn don't take this personally I picked your post just becuase it was the best written one people that work in a store should no there job even if min. wage and it is the managers job to see that they do he is the biggest one at fault and the manager should go and point out to all employees what is required for what. as people that work for you represent you and the business. the other thing that makes some people ticked off is that people that work in stores act like they know the laws that are associated to firearms like when storage laws came in every sports store was adamant that you had to have a gun safe to store long guns. made a lot of sales because of this and a lot of people believe that it was law as there gun store said it was. and if public opinion is left unchecked it cuold easly become law. and that is scary

[hillbillyreefer]

Originally Posted by Rocky7

I thought most folks were aware that the PAL system has accomplished nothing - nada - in making anybody safer. That includes the old FAC law.

I thought most folks were also aware that the PAL system means that guns are banned in Canada. That's the default in this country. You can only have a gun if the government says so, and then only for 5 years.

I won't go along with it one iota farther than I have to nor one second longer than I have to. I cannot understand why anyone would.

Those who "go along to get along" should not complain when another liberal government is elected and they discover that ammunition is now $150 a box because of a new requirement to have tiny serial numbers engraved on each bullet.

It's not about $9/hr. clerk who insists on a PAL. It's about resisting and educating. When you "go along to get along" you yield to a tyrannical, irrational law that has accomplished nothing and you teach the $9/hr. clerk (and, ultimately, the politicians) that gun control is not important to you. I won't do that.

X2

[Element]

Originally Posted by airbornedeerhunter

I was I believe, the first person to read your post. I was about to reply when I said no, I'll wait and see where this goes. 32 other people read your post and did not reply, finally someone did and I echo their sentiments. You and people like you are the reason why most people who work in the service industry are surly,grumpy and seem like their souls have been crushed. Not everyone who works at a sporting store is an outdoor / gun/ fishing/ hunting/ legislative/legal expert. Some poor kid working for minimum wage or a new employee at such a store learns as they go. Firstly, when asked for your PAL you could have simply been polite, smiled and explained in a non confrontational tone that one is'nt required to be produced for reloading components. You chose a different route and you did'nt stop at berating the employee, you took it further and filed a complaint, if I was the manager I would have ignored you as I'm sure your tone was no more pleasant that your first encounter with their staff. Then, when the guy takes the time out of his day to send you a polite apologetic letter, you practically tell the guy off for his apology! You need to pick and choose your battles! I would hate to see your reaction if one of your civil liberties really got trampled on! WoW!!!

x2. Couldn't agree with you more. Great post.

[Redfrog]

Originally Posted by Rocky7

I thought most folks were aware that the PAL system has accomplished nothing - nada - in making anybody safer. That includes the old FAC law.

I thought most folks were also aware that the PAL system means that guns are banned in Canada. That's the default in this country. You can only have a gun if the government says so, and then only for 5 years.

I won't go along with it one iota farther than I have to nor one second longer than I have to. I cannot understand why anyone would.

Those who "go along to get along" should not complain when another liberal government is elected and they discover that ammunition is now $150 a box because of a new requirement to have tiny serial numbers engraved on each bullet.

It's not about $9/hr. clerk who insists on a PAL. It's about resisting and educating. When you "go along to get along" you yield to a tyrannical, irrational law that has accomplished nothing and you teach the $9/hr. clerk (and, ultimately, the politicians) that gun control is not important to you. I won't do that.

Right on Rocky.

Since when is it the customer's job to train staff?

Why wait for your rights to be taken when you can give them away, to someone who doesn't have a clue what they even are.

[Scar270]

I will refuse to show my PAL for things that don't require it as well. I have not run into the problem much, but I would behave in the same manner.

It's like the stores that want to record your information when purchasing ammo. I won't buy if they want to record my information.

We don't need stores putting in place more regulations then the government has.

[alwaysfishn]

Originally Posted by Lonnie

airborn don't take this personally I picked your post just becuase it was the best written one people that work in a store should no there job even if min. wage and it is the managers job to see that they do he is the biggest one at fault and the manager should go and point out to all employees what is required for what. as people that work for you represent you and the business. the other thing that makes some people ticked off is that people that work in stores act like they know the laws that are associated to firearms like when storage laws came in every sports store was adamant that you had to have a gun safe to store long guns. made a lot of sales because of this and a lot of people believe that it was law as there gun store said it was. and if public opinion is left unchecked it cuold easly become law. and that is scary

And this has to be the worst written one!

Please start your sentences with capitals and take a breath between them.... LOL

[super7mag]

Some knob employee at the Canadian tire in swift current refused to sell my buddy some clays without producing a pal. You are also not allowed to carry the box of clays tithe counter ? With a flip of the bird a d a drive across the parking lot friggin Wally world got a few more Canadian dollars. I hate supporting an American company but if these other guys want to keep shooting themselves in the foot what do you do!