Firearms discharge permit

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by lannie

Its a free discharge permit that you can print yourself or obtain from the fish and wildlife office and sign yourself? The free trial run and the next change will be to cost you money.

Here is a direct link to the Castle firearm discharge permit.

http://www.albertaparks.ca/media/649...-a-firearm.pdf

Originally Posted by CNP

There is no restriction wrt dressing/hanging game in the Wildland Park. Dressing or hanging game in a provincial park designated campsite is not on, ever. Hanging game in a campsite where people are tenting, rving.....with kids, etc is not good because it will attract grizzlies,black bears, wolves, coyotes, crows, ravens and other stuff that don't mix well with humans. It's got nothing to do with hiding a harvest...........it's about safety.

Personally, I don't see the need for these parks at all. Enforcement was all that was needed.

You are travelling a tangent, rules applicable to Parks where hunting is not allowed.
The discussion is about the current regulatory requirement applying to hunters in the Castle Provincial Park.

Directly from the permit application.

"Dressing, hanging and storage of big game are not permitted in provincial parks and recreation areas without authorization from a conservation officer."


Do you really think there rule has any common sense, is based on safety and is appropriate?


You kill a moose on an early fall afternoon, ten miles from the truck.
Now you need to leave the moose whole until you can get permission from a Parks officer to gut it. Hope you have cell service and they answer the phone.

What do you do if they say NO, you may NOT dress the moose there, even though you were legally allowed to kill it there? Do you leave it overnight until you can get permission to gut it?

If you get permission to gut it, be sure to ask permission to hang the quarters to cool. And get permission to leave the first load in the truck while you go back for the rest of the meat.

Now remember to ask permission to keep the meat in the truck overnight while you sleep a bit before going home.

And get it all in writing, verbal permission can be easily revoked and difficult to prove in front of a judge.

I could go on, but there is no need for the majority of people that can see just how stupid this rule is as written.

[sjd]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Here is a direct link to the Castle firearm discharge permit.

http://www.albertaparks.ca/media/649...-a-firearm.pdf



You are travelling a tangent, rules applicable to Parks where hunting is not allowed.
The discussion is about the current regulatory requirement applying to hunters in the Castle Provincial Park.

Directly from the permit application.

"Dressing, hanging and storage of big game are not permitted in provincial parks and recreation areas without authorization from a conservation officer."


Do you really think there rule has any common sense, is based on safety and is appropriate?


You kill a moose on an early fall afternoon, ten miles from the truck.
Now you need to leave the moose whole until you can get permission from a Parks officer to gut it. Hope you have cell service and they answer the phone.

What do you do if they say NO, you may NOT dress the moose there, even though you were legally allowed to kill it there? Do you leave it overnight until you can get permission to gut it?

If you get permission to gut it, be sure to ask permission to hang the quarters to cool. And get permission to leave the first load in the truck while you go back for the rest of the meat.

Now remember to ask permission to keep the meat in the truck overnight while you sleep a bit before going home.

And get it all in writing, verbal permission can be easily revoked and difficult to prove in front of a judge.

I could go on, but there is no need for the majority of people that can see just how stupid this rule is as written.

It looks like they made a simple mistake, probably in the rush to demonstrate that hunting would be allowed in both parks. Has anyone contacted them and politely pointed out the error?

I imagine they will delete "dressing and hanging"

Add no storage in provincial parks, problem solved.

They've never had to really deal with hunting in a provincial park before, I'd cut them some slack.

At least they are trying. Its partially due to a complete lack of management and enforcement by the former ESRD that its moving to a park anyway. Previous government department wasn't up to the task.

[slickwilly]

Originally Posted by sjd

It looks like they made a simple mistake, probably in the rush to demonstrate that hunting would be allowed in both parks. Has anyone contacted them and politely pointed out the error?

I imagine they will delete "dressing and hanging"

Add no storage in provincial parks, problem solved.

They've never had to really deal with hunting in a provincial park before, I'd cut them some slack.

At least they are trying. Its partially due to a complete lack of management and enforcement by the former ESRD that its moving to a park anyway. Previous government department wasn't up to the task.

I read the proposal and did the consultation, and I am pretty sure in that plan they said that you weren't allowed to gut or hang at the campsites, or near the roads. Pretty obvious that the rule is intended to keep down conflicts between hunters and non-hunters, I can't believe the way people are choosing to take this and run away with it.

[artie]

Originally Posted by slickwilly

I read the proposal and did the consultation, and I am pretty sure in that plan they said that you weren't allowed to gut or hang at the campsites, or near the roads. Pretty obvious that the rule is intended to keep down conflicts between hunters and non-hunters, I can't believe the way people are choosing to take this and run away with it.

Yup but if some of us made a mistake like that we would get fired. I do not see them rushing to fix their mistake and until they do it is the hunter who can and will be charged

[slickwilly]

Originally Posted by artie

Yup but if some of us made a mistake like that we would get fired. I do not see them rushing to fix their mistake and until they do it is the hunter who can and will be charged

No one is getting charged for gutting an animal in the backcountry.

[KBF]

Originally Posted by sjd

It looks like they made a simple mistake, probably in the rush to demonstrate that hunting would be allowed in both parks. Has anyone contacted them and politely pointed out the error?

I imagine they will delete "dressing and hanging"

Add no storage in provincial parks, problem solved.

They've never had to really deal with hunting in a provincial park before, I'd cut them some slack.

At least they are trying. Its partially due to a complete lack of management and enforcement by the former ESRD that its moving to a park anyway. Previous government department wasn't up to the task.

No slack here. They brag about how they consulted with people and set all these rules and ideas. Well if they actually they consulted outdoorsmen regarding this exact topic, hunters would have shared their ideas that contacting law enforcement prior to gutting an animal was not a good idea. This is something that should not even need to be consulted. Anybody with an eye or an ###hole should understand that a 1000lb critter in the sun and heat with other predators is gonna get wasted. If I leave sandwich meat on the counter in the morning, I'm not gonna eat it that night for supper.

Slack.....DENIED

[KBF]

Originally Posted by slickwilly

I read the proposal and did the consultation, and I am pretty sure in that plan they said that you weren't allowed to gut or hang at the campsites, or near the roads. Pretty obvious that the rule is intended to keep down conflicts between hunters and non-hunters, I can't believe the way people are choosing to take this and run away with it.

Read what's on discharge permit. Its the third point from the end.
In that is uses the words "provincial parks".

And if you check the title name of each park, the word Provincial is in there.

Let's hope they actually do some consultation and this call all get sorted out.

[KBF]

The whole idea of a firearm discharge permit being required for someone who is hunting and odds are being that they will not even fire a shot that day, yet someone who is out target practicing or sighting in a firearm does not need one.

Maybe someone can explain what I'm missing there.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by sjd

It looks like they made a simple mistake, probably in the rush to demonstrate that hunting would be allowed in both parks. Has anyone contacted them and politely pointed out the error?

I imagine they will delete "dressing and hanging"

Add no storage in provincial parks, problem solved.

They've never had to really deal with hunting in a provincial park before, I'd cut them some slack.

At least they are trying. Its partially due to a complete lack of management and enforcement by the former ESRD that its moving to a park anyway. Previous government department wasn't up to the task.

KBF understands this well. IF Parks had competent experienced staff handling the hunting portion of Parks regulations, this 'Mistake" would not have happened. The Gov. has the expertise on staff, USE THEM!

KBF's point about consultation is bang on. IF Parks had actually followed through with consultation, this "mistake" would have been caught.

Instead, Parks staff spent resources making more garbage that has to be fixed.

This is an "IF".

What IF Parks intends to keep these rules, as they don't agree it is a mistake nor desire to make any changes?


I have caught and facilitated the change of several such "mistakes" in the last few years. When the truth was uncovered, they really were NOT mistakes, but intentional actions.

Originally Posted by KBF

No slack here. They brag about how they consulted with people and set all these rules and ideas. Well if they actually they consulted outdoorsmen regarding this exact topic, hunters would have shared their ideas that contacting law enforcement prior to gutting an animal was not a good idea. This is something that should not even need to be consulted. Anybody with an eye or an ###hole should understand that a 1000lb critter in the sun and heat with other predators is gonna get wasted. If I leave sandwich meat on the counter in the morning, I'm not gonna eat it that night for supper.

Slack.....DENIED

Originally Posted by KBF

The whole idea of a firearm discharge permit being required for someone who is hunting and odds are being that they will not even fire a shot that day, yet someone who is out target practicing or sighting in a firearm does not need one.

Maybe someone can explain what I'm missing there.

There is no target practice or recreational shooting allowed in Wildland and Provincial Parks. Thus no need for a discharge permit for these activities.

[ram crazy]

Originally Posted by Newview01

I am a proponent of mass non-compliance of this BS. Besides apparently they won't have the staff to enforce 99% of the ridiculousness.

2x...

[H380]

Originally Posted by Newview01

I am a proponent of mass non-compliance of this BS. Besides apparently they won't have the staff to enforce 99% of the ridiculousness.

Im like you , this new regulation is out and out stupid , but are you willing to be the 1 % that gets caught for not complying ? As for the staffing part , the Castle is a weird place on this one . During hunting season ther this past year I never even saw an officer in the 5 trips we made into that country .. Fishing however was a different story . Got checked by 3 different officers n one day .

[Phshrmn]

There's a new discharge permit and the problem has been decently resolved. Now the permit allows gutting.

We have hung meat overnight up there before but now that's not an option. I can live with that.

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[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by Phshrmn

There's a new discharge permit and the problem has been decently resolved. Now the permit allows gutting.

We have hung meat overnight up there before but now that's not an option. I can live with that.

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No, the permit has been edited, and Parks staff still skrewed up....

It STILL says that a hunter must obtain Permission from a conservation officer to gut a big game animal.

The only addition to the language is claiming the permit authorizes field dressing, which is in conflict with the previous sentence, and it adds clarification on location of offal removal.

How long does a hunter have to remove the game from the park?
Officers discretion..... ?

A hunter will no longer be allowed to stay any length of time in the Castle after killing an animal.
Kill something, get out.... NOW!

Yah, that's hunter friendly.


http://www.albertaparks.ca/media/649...-a-firearm.pdf

"10. Dressing, hanging and storage of big game are not permitted in provincial parks and recreation areas without authorization from a conservation officer. This permit constitutes an authorization to field dress an animal as long as the offal is removed from the park or left a minimum of 100 meters from any designated OHV or hiking trail, or left a minimum of 183 meters from any facility described in condition number 6. Dressed game must be removed from the park."


Hunting appears to be Rocket Science to these Castle Parks people....

[Phshrmn]

There is no question this is a hastily and poorly written discharge permit. It is however clear that field dressing is permitted and the limits on dressing are simple to follow.

Removing the animal is required. It's clear to me that the animal must be removed rather than hung while we go after another animal as we would have previously.

Given that it's a provincial park, this is to be expected.

The intention to permit hunting is part of the draft plan. Nowhere did they ever imply that hunting would be a priority. In fact, one could easily conclude that hunting other than for controlling serious population imbalance, could be severely curtailed. The language in the draft plan seems to be written in such a way that the area will be managed with goal to limit hunting. But for now, the targets are OHVs and random camping. My expectation is that hunting will be fine for quite a while. And restricting OHVs will remove hunting pressure too. This could make hunting better for those who are willing to hike or horse in and camp.

In any case, for now, hunting is still permitted and will be comparable to the past. Get your animal, pack it out. For me, that's workable.

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