my .243 reloading non grouping saga HELP

[boldt]

Hi all....im in love with husqvarna rifles. I was after a collection of huskys for 30 yrs and finally obtained the package. One rifle in the package is a .243 target/varmint...you know, the one with the giant bolt handle. Its a heavy barrel (26").1;10 twist. The rifle as with most of the package were unfired or next to unfired as the seller bought new back in the early 70s only to have a severe life altering traffic accident shortly after. The rifles were kept in the cabinet ever since last yr. when i came along
Anyway.... i will be using the 14 lb rifle to hunt.....after much research ive learned the 90gr speer hotcore is a lethal bullet on game so i bought 3 boxes thinking that with 1:10 twist , i should be fine. I did purchase 2 boxes of factory ammo (100gr.)...they did anything but group...4" group at best. As soon as i went down to the 90gr. hotcore the grouping got better 1.5". Ive played with 2 different powders (4350,4895) and several seating depths of the bullet to no avail. I really dont want to go any lower with bullet weight. Surely this rifle being almost unfired, should shoot way better.Ive actually tested the twist and it is 1:10.The barrel is free floated and the action bedded. Ive been loading cartridges off and on for many yrs. What would you try next? thank you in advance

[Slash8]

I hate to say it but I would plug some 55gr pills through that sucker just to say I did it and just to get it out of my system.

Mine loves 55gr bullets but they are in no way an option for big game. I have always had good success with IMR 4064 and Reloader 19 running for 90gr projectile loads in my .243. Start in the basement and work your way up.

[David Henry]

Perhaps a good scrubbing of the bore ?. If it's been sitting that long in storage it may have been swabbed with oil occasionally over the years and the oil deposits will have settled in the bottoms of the grooves and set up. Bit of a wild guess I know, but a bore scope would tell the truth. D.H.

[boldt]

Originally Posted by Slash8

I hate to say it but I would plug some 55gr pills through that sucker just to say I did it and just to get it out of my system.

Mine loves 55gr bullets but they are in no way an option for big game. I have always had good success with IMR 4064 and Reloader 19 running for 90gr projectile loads in my .243. Start in the basement and work your way up.

thank you for your reply. i suspect a .55gr would group as the lower my bullet weight, the tighter i start getting..but yeah...im always after big larry and this rifle is going in the story.

[boldt]

Originally Posted by David Henry

Perhaps a good scrubbing of the bore ?. If it's been sitting that long in storage it may have been swabbed with oil occasionally over the years and the oil deposits will have settled in the bottoms of the grooves and set up. Bit of a wild guess I know, but a bore scope would tell the truth. D.H.

ya know, thats one step ive completely ignored...while the bore looks sharp and new, it was sitting in a basement....albeit damp at times because i know the area of the city these guns lived...and YES, at times that basement could have dampness. Scrubadub dub..here i go...... will report back and thanks for the awakening David Henry im 61

[boldt]

well ...an update...ive gone ahead and cleaned the bore.it wasnt that bad.
I also took a factory shell, measured it (70.70) then placed into the rifle ,closed the bolt, took another measurement, it now measured (69.10). I repeated the process and got the same results.
This being a Varmint/Target model, i now wonder if there is little to no freebore. I read somewhere that target model rifles have very tight tollerances. But this is a store bought rifle from the early 70s.
I do know back in the 1970 sweden used this exact rifle to break 2 new world records in Phoenix with this exact rifle..so they say.
So i guess the next thing i will try is setting the bullets down and wait for the cold weather to leave and go shoot it again.
Only other thing i can think of why it wont group may be the fact that this 1970 rifle is next to new with very few rounds through her....maybe a break in period will make it tighten up. I hear different opinions on this though

[catnthehat]

bolt, Sweden won the 300 meter prone in Phoenix from what I researched but the team event was won by the U.S. As well, I would be very surprised if Sweden was using the 243 in their Free rifle events. I am fairly certain they were still using the 6.5 x55 then but I may be wrong.
As far as the accuracy goes, I would suggest trying some Lapua Scenars in it , about .005 off the lands to start with a mid range book load.
Cat

[no-regard]

My old Tikka .243 really likes IMR-4831, that's shooting 87 gr Bergers.

[ebspol]

A few options to look at if you haven't tried already is with the brass itself, see if you get different results with neck sizing only as compared to just bumping back the shoulders 2-3 thou. Use the same charge and seating depth and send a few down the tube and compare your results. This approach seems to work for me. Good Luck post some pics of that .25 grouping at 200 yds. latter.

[mindoutside]

I'm sure you made sure all the screws are nice and tight on everything so have you tried a different brand of bullet? Like some said, could be brass too.

I noticed my group tighten up going from winchester primers to CCI. That could even be the difference

[eric2381]

If the bedding job is done well and the barrel is clean, the first thing I'd look at doing would be to make sure I was using quality brass. The stuff in the blue boxes is my favorite. I myself am not a huge Speer bullet fan, but I'm sure they're a fine hunting bullet. I'd actually measure where the lands are at in the bore and set up my cartridge length accordingly. I usually look in my Sierra manual and start with what they suggest for powder for the hunting or accuracy load and work up from there. I'd also look at your scope and make sure I wasn't running a high magnification scope with bad parallax issues.

It's a fine rifle you have. Just need to get the small details sorted out I'd think.

I do like the Barnes ttsx bullets. Seems to be very easy to get shooting well.

[303carbine]

Originally Posted by boldt

Hi all....im in love with husqvarna rifles. I was after a collection of huskys for 30 yrs and finally obtained the package. One rifle in the package is a .243 target/varmint...you know, the one with the giant bolt handle. Its a heavy barrel (26").1;10 twist. The rifle as with most of the package were unfired or next to unfired as the seller bought new back in the early 70s only to have a severe life altering traffic accident shortly after. The rifles were kept in the cabinet ever since last yr. when i came along
Anyway.... i will be using the 14 lb rifle to hunt.....after much research ive learned the 90gr speer hotcore is a lethal bullet on game so i bought 3 boxes thinking that with 1:10 twist , i should be fine. I did purchase 2 boxes of factory ammo (100gr.)...they did anything but group...4" group at best. As soon as i went down to the 90gr. hotcore the grouping got better 1.5". Ive played with 2 different powders (4350,4895) and several seating depths of the bullet to no avail. I really dont want to go any lower with bullet weight. Surely this rifle being almost unfired, should shoot way better.Ive actually tested the twist and it is 1:10.The barrel is free floated and the action bedded. Ive been loading cartridges off and on for many yrs. What would you try next? thank you in advance

Some 243's won't digest any bullets over 90-95 grains, a 95 grain Ballistic Tip in the lungs of a big deer will be very bad for the deer and good for the grill.

[6.5 shooter]

85 gr. Speer btsp or hp,

Boat-Tail Rifle Bullet .243
1213
Bullet Weight: 85
Bullet Style: Jacketed Soft Point Boat-tail
Ballistic Coefficient: .380
Diameter In: 0.24
Usage: Hunting

Looks like they no longer make the hollow point

[ram crazy]

With a 26” barrel I’d be using IMR 4831 with 100gr. Speer boat tail bullet. Federal primers

[Daslogster]

Marking the bullet for COL measurements or casting the chamber would be a start. Using a known dependable scope and starting from scratch from remounting the action to torqueing screws in the scope mounts. I have never found a 243 that shoots that poorly, but I have found rifles with something minor like solvent under the receiver causing movement. Sounds like there is something off, and tweaking a load on a rifle that barely groups is more or less a waste of time and resources.

[Tikka300]

I was having similar problems with one of my .243's. I e-mailed sierra and they replied back saying to try 36.2gr IMR 4064 with 100gr sierra game kings as they have never seen a gun that didn't like this load.

I tried it out and yep shoots great and puts that bullet at 2950 ish across my chronograph.

[inline290]

243 IS NATORIOUS FOR ACCURACY ..and I have owned many..but no one load works the same in every rifle..I had one that was difficult ..trying many powders I finally found 7828 with 100grn nosler gotter done..dont give up u will find what works

[boldt]

Originally Posted by inline290

243 IS NATORIOUS FOR ACCURACY ..and I have owned many..but no one load works the same in every rifle..I had one that was difficult ..trying many powders I finally found 7828 with 100grn nosler gotter done..dont give up u will find what works

7828 was my next choice.

[boldt]

UPDATE
i have a new (2016 but never used) vortex diamondback HP on this rifle. I found the scope to not be tracking. I called Vortex,...the first question they asked was "what brand of rings are on the riflescope" I replied, Burris. The Vortex tech guy says thats your problem. He says you cannot use Burris rings on a vortex due to the torque specs being too much (30 inch lbs). I had it pro installed at Wholesale Sports here in Saskatoon when they were still in business. They crushed the tube!
Whether its my problem or not (with grouping) its the first step in figuring this grouping problem out.Keep yall posted and thanks for all the help so far. Perhaps i have two or more problems

[wwbirds]

I have used a lot of Burris rings and never had them cause problems on Kahles and many many Leupolds so maybe they are only a problem on Vortex which to my way of thinking vortex is the problem. 1 inch rings will not crush a 1 inch tube as they can only be torqued until they meet not beyond or you will be stripping screws.

[270person]

Originally Posted by wwbirds

I have used a lot of Burris rings and never had them cause problems on Kahles and many many Leupolds so maybe they are only a problem on Vortex which to my way of thinking vortex is the problem. 1 inch rings will not crush a 1 inch tube as they can only be torqued until they meet not beyond or you will be stripping screws.

Yep. Vortex is crap outside of some of their older binos. Sounds like they're flat out admitting they use lighter grade aluminum tubes. Burris makes some of the best rings available.

[Dean2]

Originally Posted by boldt

UPDATE
i have a new (2016 but never used) vortex diamondback HP on this rifle. I found the scope to not be tracking. I called Vortex,...the first question they asked was "what brand of rings are on the riflescope" I replied, Burris. The Vortex tech guy says thats your problem. He says you cannot use Burris rings on a vortex due to the torque specs being too much (30 inch lbs). I had it pro installed at Wholesale Sports here in Saskatoon when they were still in business. They crushed the tube!
Whether its my problem or not (with grouping) its the first step in figuring this grouping problem out.Keep yall posted and thanks for all the help so far. Perhaps i have two or more problems

ANY gun that won't group and has a Vortex on it, that is the first thing to remove and replace. It cures the issue virtually 100% of the time. As to Vortex comments about Burris rings, if they will crush their scopes so will every other ring made. Just how are they suggesting the scope be mounted? Good thing for the no fault warranty as it gets used a LOT..

[Homesteader]

Originally Posted by boldt

Vortex tech guy says thats your problem. He says you cannot use Burris rings on a vortex due to the torque specs being too much (30 inch lbs).

Now there's the biggest load of crap I've heard. The rings matter not unless they are out of alignment and almost any ring/receiver could cause that. Pop another scope on and hit send!

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Homesteader

Now there's the biggest load of crap I've heard. The rings matter not unless they are out of alignment and almost any ring/receiver could cause that. Pop another scope on and hit send!

This is not the first time I have heard this, I know of three that were sent back and everybody was told the same thing , "tube was over torqued "
Cat

[Homesteader]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

This is not the first time I have heard this, I know of three that were sent back and everybody was told the same thing , "tube was over torqued "
Cat

And were they all Vortex, or is it all Burris rings on every scope, because i've used a pile of burris without marking a tube other then the matte finish on some, and even then not often. Seems much easier to mark a matte finish then the old gloss.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Homesteader

And were they all Vortex, or is it all Burris rings on every scope, because i've used a pile of burris without marking a tube other then the matte finish on some, and even then not often. Seems much easier to mark a matte finish then the old gloss.

I'm not sure about all of them but I do know that the one had Vortex rings and was torqued properly to specs .
My friend made the remark that it seems that the standard answer is that the rings were over torqued !
Cat

[Smokinyotes]

I think the problem could be “Professionally installed by wholesale sports”

When WSS was in business I wouldn’t have let them mount anything.

[Dean2]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

I'm not sure about all of them but I do know that the one had Vortex rings and was torqued properly to specs .
My friend made the remark that it seems that the standard answer is that the rings were over torqued !
Cat

I agree. Vortex needs a convenient excuse to explain their very high failure rate so have landed on over torqued rings to explain them away. It is complete hog wash. If they spent less on advertising and more on making a quality scope their warranty costs would drop dramatically and their customer satisfaction would shoot way up.

[catnthehat]

According to Vortex, their rings are supposed to be torqued to 18 inch pounds.
Burris is 3o? I supposed because Burris Rings are steel and the Vortex rings are unique alloy ?
I have no idea , I don't own any Vortex and the only one I did own was on a rifke I traded without firing.
I have seen lots at the range is all.
Cat

[Homesteader]

Originally Posted by Dean2

I agree. Vortex needs a convenient excuse to explain their very high failure rate so have landed on over torqued rings to explain them away. It is complete hog wash. If they spent less on advertising and more on making a quality scope their warranty costs would drop dramatically and their customer satisfaction would shoot way up.

I just bought a used leupold, it has a crushed tube from an overzealous tightening but it still shoots bug hole groups.

I know Vortex can make some good glass, I just don't think they are near as robust as their competition at similar prices. There's a reason everyone that loved them used to rant about how great their warranty once. I've sent in one Leupold in my lifetime, and it again was a used one. They sent me a new one in it's place. My two Leupold complaints would be stiff power adjustment on some, and the variable eye relief. They are still my go too for hunting.